Had wanted to play there since it opened and finally got the chance today. Maybe it was the anticipation and the reputation of the club, but we were a little disappointed in the course as a whole. My brother said it best after about 7 holes, "They all look the same." However, I will say that the par 3s are VERY good, with a big variation in yardages (IIRC, they were 177, 240, 212, and 158 yds). Amazing clubhouse and facilities, but for the money it takes to join, I'd want more than a few waterfalls to keep my interest. Nice place overall, just expected a little more.

Any idea of the cost to join?

Not sure, but I'd bet in the $50-75k range.

Depends on age for fee to join but it was 70K (negotiable down to probably 50K and deferred over 3 years from what i heard recently). It is only about 35K if you are under 35 (can deferred payment for 1 year), so not that horrible. Monthly dues are the killer. Above 35 is about $600 a month (plus cart rental) and under 35 is about $450 plus cart rental unless you have your own (i think it is $20/round).

That said, the course is awesome. Very well mantained, and majority of members are residents of the community. Never really crowded even on the weekends, great staff, great practice facility, great club house. Majority of members are really nice but like every country club, you have some egos.

In my opinion it is in the top 4 of the Houston area for sure, and if you are not a member it is really tough to get on.

If you join, you will never get your portion of equity back if you retire the membership.

Royal Oaks is the greek debt of the Houston golf scene. It's now if, but when...

Disagree on the all looking the same comment.


[This message has been edited by ragoo (edited 8/19/2011 9:15a).]

I didnt even see or notice the "all look the same".

I guess that is true if you mean that every hole on the course is green and almost perfectly manicured, but there is a ton of variaty, slope, and character on that course. There is not a lot of elevation change but what course besides Houston CC (which is not alot but has some) actually has any elevation change in Houston?

From what I have heard no they don't have financial problems.

[This message has been edited by ragoo (edited 8/19/2011 9:16a).]

They are in bigtime financial straits. If the weren't, they would have returned my partners and my funds upon termination of membership as presented in the member contract......

Royal Oaks is leaning firsthand that big courses that service debt are destined to fail....

Lakeside

and if that were the case you would have taken legal action.... I bet your word versus their contract wasn't as strong.

Royal Oaks isn't an independent CC.

Look at cordillera..... Same setup and the same results as Royal Oaks.

In regards to a lawsuit, know what you are counting before you try to keep score....

okay dude. I think you are letting your emotion of your situation be an end all be all of the club. it is not.

quote:

---

Look at cordillera..... Same setup and the same results as Royal Oaks.

---

Please list the parent company and the other properties it owns and the financial stability of that parent company.

And here I thought someone of your worth wouldn't let emotion get in his way.

Wilhelm and associates. Scottsdale cc and Mayacama and minority interests in several others.

Heck, even Vail and associates are having trouble at red sky and those guys are a MACHINE. Again, it's all about debt. Those private clubs that have debt and are successful are few and far between. There is a reason the service at ROCCO, HCC, and LCC hasn't dropped since 08 while royal oaks etc have been cutting amenity after amenity and making empty promises that anyone with 2 ears and a lick of sense know are bogus....

Wilhelm and associates are currently underwater with alpine bank to the tune of multiple millions....

Any other questions?

Also, sunrise colony is financially secure due to their corporate structure. They use an umbrella style that shields the larger corporation from development busts by designating each project under a different parent entity limiting the recourse ability between clubs. Thus, when one struggles, they can cut it and stay in the black (Wilhelm does the same). BUT, if they moved from
An umbrella to a master feeder, it would help highlight their financial situation because they couldn't hide behind garden of the gods to hide the expense of RO. Next, if you examine the membership contract it originally failed to limit the recourse ability of full equity members across entities because they failed to include the proper language by accidental omission. They have since changed the language in their contracts, but that fails to supersede the original homesteading members contracts.

The problem they have is of their courses, several are profitable while several others are dog shot money pits. Royal oaks falls into the latter where as their Colorado Springs property is the former.



[This message has been edited by Cstxag2015 (edited 8/19/2011 7:59a).]

[This message has been edited by Cstxag2015 (edited 8/19/2011 8:07a).]

In regards to golf course development, the typical cycle is the original developer builds it, sells it and losses money/breaks even on the course, but makes a solid return on the residential development portion. The guy that buys it typically watches it tank, and the 3rd group picks it up at a discount, revamps it, and make the course profitable.

I'm not saying I didn't like the course, because I did. I was just expecting to be blown away considering all of the hype. I also think the houses lining both sides of almost every hole played a part in the "they all look the same" comment. It's difficult/unfair to judge the conditioning of any course right now due to the fact that none of us have ever seen drought like this in our lifetime. I would love to see it in it's tip-top conditioning in fall or spring. Maybe that would change my mind...

Knowing what I know about Ragoo, I most definitely take his side in this argument.

Ragoo knows what his wife tells him. His ace knows what the corporate office is telling her.

NONE of that meshes with the operation, due schedule, membership retirement, or amenity provisions.....

Easier to believe someone with no affiliation than someone who has had an affiliation with the development since it was the airpark....

Also, the monthly dues are beyond ridiculous and by making it voluntary for homeowners to join, you have 60% of the residents that pay no dues, yet still manage to pop o the course after 5.

Also, the developer told the homeowners that he would leave after 1-2 years of profitability. Guess what? He still owns a significant portion because they built anmoney pit and 1-2 years of profitability hasnt happened.

I'm sorry, but saying royal oaks isnt in financial straits is one of the best jokes I've heard around the private Houston golf scene in a long time.

$1000 monthly dues at royal oaks or $500 for HCC or LCC and $650 for ROCC.... That's an easy choice.....

I am not trying to say I'm right and you're wrong. Clearly we both have a bone in the discussion. All I know is that membership interest is on the up and they are at or near their all time high. Event bookings are constant and it doesn't seem like they are doing any gimmiky type stuff to generate extra revenue. Also Christmas is supposed to be extra nice this year.

Furthermore, the club might be better now.....

[This message has been edited by ragoo (edited 8/19/2011 4:42p).]

Boy this got off topic fast.

quote:

---

$500 for HCC or LCC and $650 for ROCC.... That's an easy choice.....

---

HCC and ROCC are almost impossible to get into though. I am not sure about LCC.

5-7 HCC 7-10 ROCC

Royal oaks has a new GM too. So newer management than when you were likely a member.

Which on is LCC? I'm assuming ROCC is River Oaks Country Club?

Lakeside Country Club