So in looking at purchasing a piece of land the seller wants to reserve timber rights. How common is this and how does this work?

My thoughts are that it's a deal breaker for me. If I buy the land, I get the land and everything on it which isn't personal property.

I would tell them to kiss it.

Not typical. I would probably say walk, but it depends on the terms of the contract. How wooded is it? How many acres? How much value is in the timber? How much is the contract for? Lots of other factors as well.

My old man has a rich neighbor who buys land frequently. Bought a parcel, closed, showed up to inspect and it had been clear cut. I think the seller ended up making it right but having to deal with it would suck.

About 300 acres near Rusk, owner wants to reserve timber rights on 100 acres. There virtually no improvements and this place would be kept "wild" as a hunting & fishing retreat. Land is mostly wooded as is with approximately 80 acres being marsh/wetlands.

I'm thinking of telling him to stick it and see what he does. The fact this is up now means I'll be all over it.

The fella whose family bought the land that had been clear cut prior to closing would have made me go ballistic and re-trade the deal to a lower price.

Is it a one time deal or does he want the timber rights from now on?

Either way, I'd tell him forget it if it was me.

How mature and what kind are the trees? What are they worth? How will it affect the look and feel of the property? How will it affect the value?

Still say no, but it may be worth it.

Sounds like a very interesting piece of property and a unique situation. Like others mentioned, I think it would greatly depend on how long they retain the rights for, what species they plan on harvesting and the method, and their plans post harvest (planting saplings etc).

Are you getting full minerals? I'd give up one 30 year cut of a selected area to be timbered if I could get full minerals on rverything else.

Otherwise no dice

OFN- haven't gotten there yet. One of the first things out of the agent's mouth regarding this land was that the seller was adamant about retaining the timber rights on that 100 acres.

I have no clue what timber is worth or how it's valued but I'm of the opinion that if he's so set on this he's going to bend over on the rest of the deal. I can't imagine too many people dumb enough to allow such a clause in the deal.

Is it pine tres or hard woods?

I am from that general area so I imagine it is Pines. That 100 acres could be very very valuable depending on the maturity of the trees. I am talking hundreds of thousands of dollars if they are mature and thick. I am assuming that you have seen the place?

Find out the value of the timber. Also find out about the cut. Will it be a select cut? Cutting everything? How many cuts and how long will he retain those rights?

May be worth getting a RE Attorney involved depending on the situation.

Another aspect to look into is what will it cost to clean up the land after the trees are cut and what kind of time frame?

Clear-cutting 100 acres leaves a ton of tree tops, limbs, branches, and stumps. Usually they're piled into rows that are burned or let nature do its thing. It can be a very expensive and/or costly process.

From what I understand they're pine trees. No, I haven't seen the place it but I found it and called the agent to set a time to see it and he brought this up out of the gates.

It sounds like they've had people interested and get down the road a bit and they walk due to this timber issue.

I'm a broker myself but I'm strictly commercial and have no experience with timber deals. I've been an office/industrial guy that's why I'm asking. I've got a call into a RE attorney friend for more info.

But this sounds like it could be a lot of hassle and the seller a bit unreasonable.

Did you say if this is a one time harvest or if he wants to keep these rights forever?

Let us know what you find out.

[This message has been edited by dannyag07 (edited 10/24/2012 5:19p).]

I'm working with a forester to develop a clearing/thinning plan for our property. It is heavily wooded and we are doing the same thing you are thinking on your property (with some clearing for pasture). It is thick pine but since it's so dense the trees are generally smaller in diameter (mostly pulp and chip & saw and few saw logs). He says that the value of our trees may be $300 per acre. Depending on your trees, it may be less of a money issue and more of nuisance factor. If he is allowed to harvest your trees it will look like a wasteland when he is done and you will be left to deal with the dozer work/burning. It really all depends upon the terms he is proposing.

You may want to contact a timber consultant. We are using Wayne Pfluger of Lone Star Forestry out of Huntsville. They are an Aggie family and on the NCRS-approved list if it helps.

I also know a Forester out of the Palestine area that isn't too terribly far from Rusk. I believe he is an Aggie, but not sure. His wife taught with my mom and I went to school with their kids. The oldest son played baseball at A&M and the youngest son graduated a couple of years ago.

If it were me, I'd get a timber cruise done to get the timber valued, and then make an offer for the land, plus the value of the timber, and see what happens. Then he gets his money, and you don't have to worry about him. If he doesn't take that, he's loony.

Is is a relatively mature stand on that 100 ac. that he wants to harvest with the next couple of years? If that were the case, I could see a term reservation, i.e. the timber rights revert back to you after a set # of years. But a perpetual reservation sounds pretty ridiculous. With that said, I only handle timber every once in a while.

[This message has been edited by RoseRichAg01 (edited 10/26/2012 1:58p).]

If he were to retain timber rights, would that mean you'd have to have his permission if you wanted to clear an area - say you wanted to put a cabin or house or something out there?

I tried to set a time to see this place but the owner is wing squirrelly. He has it leased for hunting and doesn't want people out there until deer season is over. I was going to take one of my brother's in-laws who is in the timber biz near Livingston.

Really bizarre behavior IMHO.

FWIW, I met with our forestry consultant this weekend. He said the $300/acre (which wife told me) was for thinning. He thought we could get +/- $1,000/acre for clear-cutting. Again we are mostly skinny pines.

Sounds like your seller is a real PITA. I would move on unless this is THE place for you. If it is the ideal place, I would spend the money on a good attorney, good timber consultant and hire a good broker that knows the area and ranches/timber.

Good luck.