Not sure where to put this. It seems there is very little traffic on the academics board

Worth the time and money these days?

From research given my A&M gpa I would be looking at south Texas or maybe smu with a 160+ LSAT

And it seems getting into big law firms in Houston/Dallas favors attending a higher tier law school.

Tired of the path I'm on in the O&G industry and looking for a new career change. Not afraid of the workload required

From all of the past TA threads I googled it seems the majority opinion is that it's not worth it to spend the money unless you can get into a top ranked school with good placement into a big firm

Thoughts?

Code > law

At least thats the trend im seeing.

I think it totally depends on whether or not you actually LIKE the law and are passionate about it. Like just about anything, that should drive your decision making process.

Coming from the O&G industry, unless you get a job at a top firm (requires top 10% of your class), you will unlikely be making much, if any, more than your previous career.

If you feel that taking on debt and 3 years of lost earnings is worth it to pursue this passion of a legal career, then you should certainly go for it.

If you are only wanting to go to law school to chase $$$, I would probably avoid at all costs because you may find that the money isn't worth it to pursue a job you don't really love, and there's a very high chance it may not be the most lucrative pursuit unless you have stellar grades.

And another thing - turnover at the Big Law firms is high. Statistically you are unlikely to make it 3 years, let alone to the partner track. Most do not love the law well enough to put up with 100% devotion to the client at all times in pursuit of billable hours...so, when you transition to a smaller firm or to a corporate job you will be taking a big paycut for the rest of your career, but it can certainly still be a fulfilling career if that's what you love.

This is coming from someone who decided to stay in STEM as opposed to getting a JD and pursue Patent Law.

And you want to go Big Law you better go to a top 10 or be number 1 or 2 in your class, work 80 hours a week for 5 years only making 165, but 7-800 as a partner after 10-15 years, but then be prepared to have 300k in loans

There is a years old and thousands of replies long thread about law school. Pretty sure most of what u need to know is in there regardless of its age. I got out long ago from big law a decade ago and never practiced again. Think the thread is "critically analyze law schools in Texas" or something like that.

Hanrahan said:

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There is a years old and thousands of replies long thread about law school. Pretty sure most of what u need to know is in there regardless of its age. I got out long ago from big law a decade ago and never practiced again. Think the thread is "critically analyze law schools in Texas" or something like that.

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Find this thread. Lots of good insight. And yes, I would say it's still relevent.

My takeaway would be this: law school is not a path to a career. It's a path to a credential. And an expensive one at that. It will be entirely up to you to build a career for yourself on the other end once you secure the credential. If law school is worth it to you, it will be because you build yourself a worthwhile career after you graduate. If not, it will be because you didn't.

If you truly want to practice law it can be rewarding and lucrative. But if you're just looking for a lucrative career path, there are shorter and cheaper ways to build that for yourself than going to law school.

Engineer turned lawyer here. I have a lot of thoughts. Shoot me a PM OP.

I'll add on a little about what has been said. Definitely agree that you need to have a real passion for the field and work if you are considering working in patent law. When I was in undergrad and considering law school, I met with 2 different attorneys with engineering backgrounds and this is what they said. (They also both advised that I get industry experience as an engineer before going back for more school, glad I did).

Studied for and took the LSAT and did okay enough but not as high as I wanted nor matched what I got on a couple of practice LSATs. Score is relevant for a handful of years, I think 5, so I just let it be for a while and did more consideration and research on my career.

I ended up going back for my MBA instead for multiple reasons. The 2 versus 3 year difference was one factor. Another factor was what was said regarding career vs. certification. I felt that there were more jump off points as an engineer with an MBA degree and I had a much better idea on what it looked like after school.

After my MBA I even got to work in a role and field that was heavily involved in proprietary R&D and work with a patent lawyer on some projects. No longer in that role, but it was really neat to do this kind of patent management work given my prior interest in law school (a common stereotype among MBAs is that the majority of the time they're in a new job within a couple of years after starting they're first post-MBA job). If you are not happy in your STEM path, I would consider an MBA.

Agree with Chipotle, you may want to consider getting an MBA for career change. I did PETE and am currently getting my MBA at a M7 program. If you want to hear about my decision making process feel free to shoot me a PM

Depends on what you want to do. If you have scholarships/saved education funds I'd recommend it, but only if you have a serious interest in law or know what type of work you want to do.

I have too many friends who got out with $150k+ who are not happy. Then again, I'm a JAG so I was never in it for the money.

I don't have the PM feature

The last thing this world needs is more lawyers.

Hanrahan said:

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There is a years old and thousands of replies long thread about law school. Pretty sure most of what u need to know is in there regardless of its age. I got out long ago from big law a decade ago and never practiced again. Think the thread is "critically analyze law schools in Texas" or something like that.

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Man, I had forgotten about that thread.

One observation I've had lately as an almost 20 year attorney and it's just my opinion. I think I've probably made 30% more as an upper-middle class attorney than I would if I had done something else upper-middle class with just my accounting undergrad degree. And that seems about right for all the other attorneys that I know on both ends of the income spectrum.

I know some attorneys that aren't that talented and/or driven, and are on the low end of the pay scale at say $100k-$150k after several years, but without law school I could see them making $60k-$100k as a teacher or counselor or something like that or maybe less (not that there's anything wrong with that). And I know hot shot attorneys making $400k-$800k, and they would likely be doing well in as a VP or C level at a smaller company, business consulting, or some other profession, but I suspect at about 30% less.

Now I'm not taking into account the true outliers - guys in high finance, c level positions with fantastic stock option awards, surgeons, or those self employed people with a fortunate combo of talent and perfect timing, etc. Nor am I taking into account the true outlier attorneys - Uber talented and successful plaintiffs attorneys making $1M+, someone with family connections/reputation, or guys that luck into a career making client that coast making high six figures without working hard hours. Although I will say that those folks "in the right place at the right time" seem to occur in and outside of law at about the same rate.

I think looking at most people in the normal range of the bell curve, they come out ~30% ahead with a law degree. And you can do that math pretty easy to see if it's worth it given the cost of law school.

Agree with the above that interest in the law is very important, but isn't that the case with anything? Some people can find interest everyday with excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations, some cannot. There's lot of different types of lawyers and the above analysis is the best general framework I've ever been sold on that would help in the very broad question of "whether law school is right for me." But I might be a tad overly optimistic about law because I think it was a good fit for me.

I went to a less glamorous but still decent law school on a 100% scholarship and had $0.00 debt. I don't have experience running the numbers on some of the daunting tuition rates that I hear about. I'd definitely be cautious about taking on $200k in debt. But that being said, the numbers still might make sense on a long enough time line. Warren Buffett says that the best investment most people can make is in themself, and I think that's true for tuition for people that are getting a degree as a step in an overall plan versus just kinda flailing around with what to do in life.

One thing to keep in mind in general, but especially during a career change, 'Nobody gets to have it all.'

And by all, I don't mean just money, but time with family, job security, a job they love, the lifestyle they want.

Everything requires a sacrifice (and thats not a bad thing), but before idolizing corporate law for their salaries a lot of people gloss over how much they truly work. One of my best friends is doing well on his law path at a big corporate firm. By the look of things, he could potentially make partner. He works truly nonstop. From morning into the evening, Saturdays too. A few hours on Sundays as well. When there's a big client in the pipeline, its finals-week esque and there is lots of til 3 AM work, wake up at 6 and start again.

Another friend with a high flying law job was recently attending the same wedding/wedding reception as I. During the rehearsal dinner his bossed called him and demanded comments on a legal doc. He went in the corner, set up his laptop and worked about an hour, did what he needed and then rejoined us. From a 40-50 hour a week engineer, that would have been unheard of from my job.

Those are the sacrifices of the lawyers making 260k+bonuses. And when I hang out with their lawyer friends circle, their all in the same boat. Those two guys are both staring down the path of divorce with how much they work. The wives/girlfriends put up with it now, but they never do once there's a kid involved and both of them want kids one day.

The escape route of corporate law is to jump to general counsel at some company. But you've got to work basically to right under partner decision or be not given partner to jump to a big corporations general counsel.

He makes way more than me, and while I wish I could have that kind of money its not worth me never being able to see my family when they'd be awake.

AggiEE said:

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If you are only wanting to go to law school to chase $$$, I would probably avoid at all costs because you may find that the money isn't worth it to pursue a job you don't really love, and there's a very high chance it may not be the most lucrative pursuit unless you have stellar grades.

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This. All of this. If you think you will make more dough by being an attorney and that is your primary motivation, then you should NOT go to law school. There are plenty of excellent attorneys who make a pitiful wage. You can make a good wage going big law, but you will work your fingers to the bone. They will own you and your life will be pretty miserable. Of course, their are mediocre attorneys with no soul who chase ambulances and do well.

All that said, unless you truly enjoy:

1. Reading;
2. Reading comprehension;
3. Analysis;
4. Statute/Code/Contract interpretation; and/or,
5. Public speaking/theater (for the litigation side).

Then, the practice of law is not right for you.

Happy to speak with you privately in more detail if you want. The law is a noble profession, but if it is not your passion, then you are better off doing something else.

All the best.