https://wallethacks.com/average-net-worth-by-age-americans




Interesting point for discussion:
https://wallethacks.com/average-net-worth-by-age-americans/#equity

w/o equity numbers - wow

Wow, that is extremely sad.

Holy ish. That is scary and pathetic.

And this is why SS will be means tested in less than 15 years. Be a good saver/investor, gubmint gonna punish you.

Good lord. Stunningly awful.

Spending expectations relative to income or wealth have moved in a terrible direction for our country.

There was a time when most would cap their home price at 1-1.5 years salary, and a car to 2-3 months salary

Today there are so many idiots out there Max leveraging to live in a house that's 7-8x yearly salary and 2 cars worth 6 months salary each (replaced every 4 years)

[Bubble pop sound]

Bonfire 1996 said:

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And this is why SS will be means tested in less than 15 years. Be a good saver/investor, gubmint gonna punish you.

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Or, this is why SS tax limit will be lifted in less than 15 years.

#YESSIR! said:

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Bonfire 1996 said:

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And this is why SS will be means tested in less than 15 years. Be a good saver/investor, gubmint gonna punish you.

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Or, this is why SS tax limit will be lifted in less than 15 years.

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It already went to $127,000 this year

FrioAg 00 said:

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There was a time when most would cap their home price at 1-1.5 years salary, and a car to 2-3 months salary

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It was also likely a time when home interest rates were 10% or more.

That makes a big difference.

Could you afford your current home if you bought it with 10% interest? It would drastically change my budget. The result was people buying cheaper houses relative to their income.

Seems I remember my dad telling me the house they built in 1980 was like 15% interest. FIFTEEN percent!

We are the 1%!

That's a really good point. But collectively if low interest rates are causing people to over leverage our balance sheets, to the point that net worth low to zero, I'd still say spending expectations have outgrown income and wealth.

Cars may be the better example, because the interest is a much smaller expense than the depreciation.

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and a car to 2-3 months salary

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while I get what you are saying... if this was the case there would be almost no trucks on the road!

Vernada said:

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and a car to 2-3 months salary

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while I get what you are saying... if this was the case there would be almost no trucks on the road!

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No, they'd just all be 15 year old trucks. The fact that a fully loaded half ton is $60k is ****ing ridiculous.

No doubt. When I went to trade in my 9 year old truck I couldn't believe how much new trucks cost! (that's the point I was making as much as anything)

Good to see that for my age group, I am waaay over the highest quintile.

I wonder what these numbers would be if you factored out the dregs of society (maybe 65% of the adult population). Probably still lower than you would expect since most upper middle class people are overspending too.

FrioAg 00 said:

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That's a really good point. But collectively if low interest rates are causing people to over leverage our balance sheets, to the point that net worth low to zero, I'd still say spending expectations have outgrown income and wealth.

Cars may be the better example, because the interest is a much smaller expense than the depreciation.

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Don't forget extra expenses like cell phones, tv, internet, etc that weren't as prevalent 30 years ago

Have family members like this. 500k houses and living paycheck to paycheck, constantly borrrowing money from the folks.

Vernada said:

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and a car to 2-3 months salary

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while I get what you are saying... if this was the case there would be almost no trucks on the road!

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No, there would be trucks on the road that are actually bought and used as TRUCKS not luxury leather clad chrome covered vehicles that look like trucks yet have never had a load over the size of a flock of boxwoods from Lowes in the bed........

Exactly Original Ag....

Texas is one of the very few states where people actually buy trucks to just "drive" for personal use.
Most other states, pickups are purchased for commerical use... meaning they carry long ladders, glass, etc.

I remember when I worked in Charlotte, NC for a couple of years and I lived in an apartment. My company paid for the rent, food, etc... when I visited the apartment office the had a sign inside stating that if you own a pickup truck, please DO NOT park it on the outside perimeter of the complex. Park only in internal parking lots. They didn't want potential apartment shoppers to see commercial pickup trucks.

"Don't forget extra expenses like cell phones, tv, internet, etc that weren't as prevalent 30 years ago"

Yep, all nice-to-haves, not need-to-haves. If they are need-to-haves, then your employer should be paying.

Also things like gym memberships, 2-3 vacations per year, eating out all the time, Starbucks $$ coffee, kids' competitive sports/extra-curriculars, $100+ premium shoes, Oakley sunglasses ,etc. Everything is way over the top now.

Back in the day, my dad was a long-time Sr VP of a global oil/gas company, made way more money than I'll ever make and he didn't spend a dime on any of the above mentioned... Like I did/do. Yes I am guilty of all of the above (minus the $100+ shoes, expensive sunglasses, Starbucks. No way!).

Today's families just don't live within their means as much as they used to. There is much more effort in trying to keep up with the Joneses.

so in lieu of what is coming...

how do you prepare to protect wealth from an upcoming onslaught? that is the million dollar question


social security will break

teacher/state&local government pensions will fail... hard

inflation is bound to hit at some point based on gubermint spending

education bubble will pop

healthcare expenses will blow at some point as well


lots of doom and gloom on the horizon, but the smart money prepares....

4 doors, King Ranch packages, cutting edge tech, etc. That's all stuff they NEED man!

Love it when someone that has the poors starts showing off their new $50-$60k vehicle. Just give em the old "it must be nice to be that rich".

I'd be interested in how this looked before credit exploded, which has inflated the entire market. People being responsible would collapse our current economy.

Also interested to see how this would have looked back when pensions ruled over 401k.

I must be reading his charts wrong. Wouldn't median for a quintile be a value and not a range?

CS78 said:

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4 doors, King Ranch packages, cutting edge tech, etc. That's all stuff they NEED man!

Love it when someone that has the poors starts showing off their new $50-$60k vehicle. Just give em the old "it must be nice to be that rich".

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The parking lot at my company building is not huge, so we tend to notice when people get new cars, or when a new person is hired.

One day I saw a new Mercedes sedan in the lot, and was curious who drove it. Turns out, it's one of our hourly techs that works in Manufacturing. Next thing you know, someone rolls up with a brand new Acura. Yep, that's Robert, another one of our Manufactuirng guys.

In fact, if you look at most cars in our lot, the nicer ones usually belong to our lowest wage folks. In most cases, they drive nicer vehicles than our Managers and Directors. Of the five people that work for me, they ALL drive nicer and newer cars than I do. One of my employees in particular, she's pushing 60, and used to tell me sob stories about how she "doesn't have a penny saved"... well, she's had a few solid years, so I gave her a modest promotion (10% or so). First thing she does? Buys a brand new car the she negotiated on payment only... $500 per month... then a year later she swapped it our for a newer model, same payment, "just another two years to pay it off."

Thankful I'm in Orange.

ORAggieFan said:

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I'd be interested in how this looked before credit exploded, which has inflated the entire market. People being responsible would collapse our current economy.

Also interested to see how this would have looked back when pensions ruled over 401k.

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Yep, don't have to save to buy anything these days, just have to make payments. It's pretty ridiculous. The amount of credit in the system is unreal.

Many people believe the subprime auto loan bubble is beginning to unravel, as well.

CAD_ag said:

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I must be reading his charts wrong. Wouldn't median for a quintile be a value and not a range?

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I struggled with it as well. I think the Median is the right most of the bar for each color.

My wife and I bring in mid six figures. I still have yet to buy a car for more than $25k. As much as I love a nice vehicle, I just can't spend money there with so many better ways to use it.

jackson-kyle said:

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Thankful I'm in Orange.

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Top .01%?

Funny that town is poor poor but a lot of old timber, oil, and DuPont money still around.

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My wife and I bring in mid six figures. I still have yet to buy a car for more than $25k. As much as I love a nice vehicle, I just can't spend money there with so many better ways to use it.

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For whatever reason - financial forums (not just this one) loooooove to single out the automobile as the downfall of American financial values. I see it on damn near ever single board I read.

It is rare to see a torch lit in the name of overspending on other stuff, like sports and golfing. We all know folks that have season tickets to college and/or pro teams, along with hitting the links 3-5x a month. Tisk tisk for buying a nice car, but go ahead and spend $800 on a ticket, hotel, gas and food/booze to see the Aggies every weekend. Does it matter if your $800 every month is for sports or an auto payment? It shouldn't - but the vehicle shaming is all too prevalent. Maybe we can thank (blame) Mr. Debt Free Scream for this. I don't know, but it bugs the hell outta me.

Same for travel - this often gets a pass for "enriching your life" and "experiencing other cultures". Define it however you want, just spend below your means and save over them. If you want a nice car, and it won't detract from your savings goals - then go sign on the dotted line.

I drove the same old pick-up from 15 years old to 32. When I bought a new one, everyone around me at work and neighborhood gave me that look - the "shame on you for buying a new vehicle." Hate this about our current financial culture.

I don't think anyone is lecturing you about driving a nice car. If you can afford it, congrats and good for you. But if you're up to your ears in debt and want me to throw a pity party for you, it's not going to happen.

I don't think most period here will disagree with you that some people spend too much money on other hobbies. Cars and houses are the easiest items to identify people spending above their means because they are usually the largest tangible assets individuals own and many people see them as status symbols.

Economics is all about rationing scarce resources. If you value spending money on a nice fancy car, go for it. Same with homes, trips, golf outings, etc. What annoys me is when people spend large amounts of money on these expenditures and then ask for handouts.