Billings MT Feedback

3,577 Views | 30 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Dixie
Copernicus
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Any Ags in Billings or nearby Laurel? Looking at a possible move that way, but I was just curious about any feedback. Currently, my wife, 2 kids, and I are in B/CS, and we want a small, but not too small town feel like here. I was looking at a small town like Laurel, and work in Billings. We all are looking for cooler weather, but not brutal winters. How is the weather? Crime? Drugs? We are spoiled with good schools. How is the education system in Laurel or Billings? I am a senior buyer in the private sector and my wife is in healthcare admin support. How is the job market?

Any recommendations on areas to look?

TIA
histag10
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handful of us up here. I live a few hours east of Billings, but can answer some general questions (we are there a lot).


I think there are a few who currently live in Billings that can answer more specific.


You can e-mail me at histag2010@gmail.com for more info/specific questions if you want.
histag10
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Copernicus said:

Any Ags in Billings or nearby Laurel? Looking at a possible move that way, but I was just curious about any feedback. Currently, my wife, 2 kids, and I are in B/CS, and we want a small, but not too small town feel like here. I was looking at a small town like Laurel, and work in Billings. We all are looking for cooler weather, but not brutal winters. How is the weather? Crime? Drugs? We are spoiled with good schools. How is the education system in Laurel or Billings? I am a senior buyer in the private sector and my wife is in healthcare admin support. How is the job market?

Any recommendations on areas to look?

TIA

1.) Laurel is small. Like WAY small compared to BCS. Billings is actually probably about the same size as either College Station or Bryan, but not both together. Also. Laurel is nice, but depending on what type of education you are looking for, Billings may be better. Also, you will likely find nicer housing options in Billings (that are newer as well).

2.) What do you consider brutal? Temperatures in the winter are frequently in single digit, if not negative (at least where I am- which we have A LOT of negative, I know Billings is a bit warmer). Though I will say this- it does not feel as cold as it is (lack of humidity helps a TON). Base layers are your friend. Summers are wonderful. We occasionally hit 100, but stay in the 80s and 90s with little humidity. Billings puts you basically in great driving distance to a plethora of National Parks and National Forests for hiking and camping and outdoor fun. There is even a small "Lake" inside Billings City Limits (Lake Elmo), which is great for weekend fun with kids.

3.) Crime is what you make of it I guess. Montana in general has a huge meth problem (which basically starts at the eastern edge and runs just past Billings). Some areas are worse than others, but definitely not hard to avoid. There has also been an uptick in burglaries and break ins (mostly cars here), but people will still leave their keys in their cars and leave the front door unlocked.

4.) What age are your kids? If you are looking for *the best*, I would suggest Private (St. Francis for k-8, Central for High School). They are Catholic Schools, but pretty much the best private option. Academics here are not what they are in Texas. Once your kids hit the age of 15, I would definitely suggest they begin taking college classes, at least at the community college level (which are technically part of the state system). You also have MSU-Billings there. This will help bridge that gap in academics, and give them a chance to be educated at a level that most on the "advanced" path in Texas would be on. Sounds harsh, but its a reality here (I worked in admissions up here at a college).

5.) I'm assuming you would be coming here for a job, and your wife would be looking? Health care in Billings is booming. Lots of options and opportunites. I, personally, would suggest SCL Health system (I think it is St. Vincent in Billings). She can also look into Billings Clinic.

6.) Billings is an agricultural hub here in MT, but the job market tends to be favorable to college educated folks. BNSF also has a large yard there, so anything going in or out via rail will have offices there.


Montana isnt for everyone, and moving here thinking its what the post cards look like would be a mistake. Please have a realistic view of what being up here is like. Winters suck (though in Billings, you can get to Red Lodge for skiing pretty quickly (1 hour)). There is a ton of snow, its cold, frozen, and it lasts roughly half of the year. We occasionally get snow in June. It happens. Many of the amenities you are accustomed to will not be here. Travel here costs a fortune- 1 plane ticket round trip to Houston will run you roughly $600 on the very low end. Its usually closer to 1k. We typically drive to Denver and catch a flight out of there. Montana has state income tax, and its quite a lot. While pay here is typically better than what you find in Texas, we pay a ton in taxes, and the cost of living is quite a bit more expensive. For comparison, I pay approximately $6/lb for beef and $4 for a gallon of milk. Gas is around $2.40/gallon right now. Most utility companies basically run a monopoly, and you dont get to choose. You pay their rate, and its usually pretty steep.

I dont mean to discourage you, honestly, we love it here. Summers are wonderful and we love being outdoors. Hunting is mostly public land, so its much easier than Texas to find somewhere to go.
Green2Maroon
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I have lived in Billings for a year now. I work at a sugar factory that processes sugar beets.

Histag gives pretty good advice. Billings is actually a pretty decent sized small city with around 180,000 people, so similar to Bryan-College Station overall. We do have 2 small college campuses, MSU Billings and Rocky Mountain, but we're not much of a "college town" like BCS definitely is. Billings has a much more diverse economy... 3 oil refineries, 2 hospitals, lots of financial institutions, my sugar beet operation, to name some bigger employers.

Yes, the winters here are much colder than down there, of course, but it's not Siberia. The average day in January is a high in the 30s and a low around 10-15 degrees typically. It can and does drop below zero but not as long or as cold as farther north and east of here. Look up Billings climate data vs. Glendive for instance. They have colder winters up there.

Lots of areas to live in Billings. Laurel is maybe 8,000 people so not many options there. A lot of people I work with live in the Heights, that area is maybe 25% of the city. I live by Shiloh and Monad on the popularly called West End. There's a lot of info online, the Billings Gazette is a good place to start. Anyway, I like it here better than BCS. We have the amenities of a city with access to everything Montana has to offer.
histag10
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Copernicus-

What's the word? Gonna give this part of the world a go? It's really fun if you come in open minded!
Premium
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Income Tax. No amenities. Meth. Crime. Brutal Winters. Not the post card I always hoped.

You could have been a little more positive!
histag10
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Premium said:

Income Tax. No amenities. Meth. Crime. Brutal Winters. Not the post card I always hoped.

You could have been a little more positive!


I was- if you are a resident, it's fairly cheap to fish and hunt, beautiful scenery (but watch out for bears), access to national parks, quiet nights where you can see the stars (and sometimes the northern lights), quick access to Canada in the event your candidate loses the election......
Copernicus
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Thank you and sorry for not writing back sooner! This is great info, and the wife and I are still talking it over.

I love the cold weather, and the outdoors. It seems like the amenities that we want would be there. Our worry is more about our daughters. We are more than a little worried about the meth issues and education system. Our oldest is a great student so far, and youngest seems to be following the same path. We are very conservative and high taxes are not welcome. Although, property taxes in Texas seem excessive along with high sales tax when comparing to Montana. Billings is still an option, especially with family in Cody just 100 miles away. We are also looking at Cheyenne as another possibility. This adventure is still in the early stages at this point, but we excited nonetheless. Again, I appreciate the feedback!
histag10
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I forgot to ask, where would you be coming from? It may be easier to put the drug and education issues into better perspective.
Copernicus
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We live in College Station. We are starting to see an uptick in theft, burglary, etc. coming up from Houston as Houston expands this direction. Bryan is still Bryan as far as gang and crime activity. We moved back here from Dallas after 6 years there. We wanted to start a family in a low crime, educated city. It was just a perk to be back in CS and close to A&M again. We love the idea of a small town that has a large enough city (amenities and jobs) close by. That is one reason I asked about Laurel. It seemed like a small town that we could still get to Billings to work even in inclement weather. At least, I hoped. I grew up in Houston and lived in Dallas. I have had my fill on crime. I know crime is everywhere, but still hoping. Drug activity is my biggest concern really when it comes to crime. Both violent and non violent crimes have a
connection with drug activity.
histag10
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Have you considered western montana? Bozeman (maybe a bit more liberal than most towns here), Missoula, Butte, Helena, or Kalispell? They are all smaller than Billings (not too far from Spokane though), beautiful areas, and don't have quite the crime/drug reputation as Billings.

Keep in mind, it's not so much that Billings is bad, it's honestly quite a bit with some of the surrounding small towns and WHT the area in general is. For a nice quiet small town near Billings (about 20 miles) look at Shepherd. It has a decent school system too.
Copernicus
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We did look at Bozeman, but the housing seemed very steep. Am I wrong?
IDAGG
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Copernicus said:

We did look at Bozeman, but the housing seemed very steep. Am I wrong?
Bozeman is really nice but it is called the New Boulder for a reason. Housing prices are pretty high. It is a really nice area though, basically on the doorstep of Yellowstone.
histag10
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Copernicus said:

We did look at Bozeman, but the housing seemed very steep. Am I wrong?


Housing in Bozeman is high. basically, Bozeman used to be a good ole boy rancher area. Wealthy people from other states (think Cali) saw vast amounts of land, and decided to move in. It slowly became a "hip" area, and the prices of everything began to rise. It is also one of the most liberal areas in Montana.


Livingston might also be a good area (though MUCH smaller and not near a large town). Great schools and fairly low crime rate (violent crime is below the national average). Might also look at Great Falls. Not the prettiest city in Montana, but it has the AF base, so there is always going to be somewhat of a decent economy there.


Personally, I wouldn't want to live in Cheyenne. Just not my cup of tea. And if looking at kids graduating HS while living in a state other than Texas, look at their colleges as well (for in state tuition). U of M and MSU are both fairly reputable schools (U of M moreso than MSU). There are also several private colleges here that are pretty good and not horribly expensive (when compared to A&M).
Green2Maroon
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A lot of people want to live in Bozeman. The area is a very beautiful valley surrounded by 5 or 6 mountain ranges, basically outdoor heaven out there. Getting a good job is pretty tough with all the competition.

Billings has its problems with drugs and crime like anywhere else, but far from a very dangerous city. We have a mostly middle class population here with a few rough areas like the South Side and North Side, but most of the city isn't what I would call dangerous or "ghetto". The cost of living here is also one of the cheaper places in the state, basically the smaller and more isolated you go, the more food and utilities cost.
Matsui
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People in Texas take for granted how cheap housing is
histag10
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Matsui said:

People in Texas take for granted how cheap housing is


Ain't that the truth. It was a big shock. We bought because it was cheaper than renting, and for what we paid for our 100+ year old house here, we could have a really nice new house in Texas.
El Chupacabra
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Been here for 10 months now. Love it. Don't want to leave. Being from Houston, housing isn't all that more expensive. And the ridiculous sales and property tax I houston also make the state income tax here negligible. I'll type more tomorrow from a desktop.
El Chupacabra
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I don't know the housing market in BCS, but my house is in Houston. If you want to live anywhere close to work in Houston, you're looking at $350k+ (heck, most of the burbs are that price as well + higher taxes + ridiculous HOA). You can find a nice place in Billings for $350k. I'm currently renting and pay $1,850 for a 5 year old, 4 BR, 3 Bath, 2 garage, 2,200 sqft townhome in a nice neighborhood. I paid $1,600 for similar in the suburbs of KC, KS and my house in Houston (inner loop) rents for $2,700, just a little perspective.

As far as other cost of living things, gas is more expensive (2.30 right now), utilities are higher, there is a state income tax, and travel is more expensive (although I've found good deals) and takes longer since there are no direct flights anywhere. Compared to Houston though, it isn't all that much higher since Houston does have a high property tax (on bloated house values) and a high sales tax. Vehicle registration is high in MT as well.

Billings is the perfect big little town in my opinion. Small town feel, but access to everything you need without trying too hard. As far as crime and drugs, sadly, that's everywhere. I don't think Billings is any better or worse on that front. Your kids are going to have access to meth and pot and coke in BCS just as easily as Billings.

There is less access to 'things''ethnic' restaurants, grocery stores aren't stocked the same as a Houston store (artisan foods, etc), Amazon prime isn't really 2 day shipping a lot of times.stuff like that. Nothing you can't live without, but if you're into stuff like that, it's an adjustment (doesn't sound like you are though). There still is plenty of stuff here though. Hell, we have 3 Walmarts within 20 minutes! There are plenty of good restaurants, shopping, and other things to do like shows, movies, concerts, arts, plays, parks, symphony, etc.

Winter isn't bad, I've lived in worse. Yes it's cold, it's winter. Texans a lot of times don't grasp the whole 'seasons' thing. Winter cold, summer hot, gorgeous transition in between. I think we got to -40 wind chills in Billings this winter and have had at least a foot of snow on the ground for 2 months. But if you dress for it and prepare for it, it's no big deal.

As far as schools, I'm not real sure as we don't have school aged children yet. They seem to be okay, not great, but compared to the schools my kids would go to in Katy (probably move there once we move back to TX), they're probably not good. That's asking for a lot though, to be compared to Katy. I went to a crappy school in a crappy state (New Mexico) and turned out okay, as did most of my classmates who applied themselves. If you're kids have the smarts and work ethic to be a dr, lawyer, engineer, etc, they'll get there, regardless of where their primary schools fell on the rating chart. I do know that I'd feel better about putting my kids in school in Billings vs Houston ISD.

If you're outdoorsy, you'll love it. Excellent access to hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, off-roading, shooting, skiing, snowmobiling, etc. Access to national parks like Glacier, Yellowstone, and Tetons. We spent almost every weekend in the summer in the mountains a little over an hour away.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post. I'll add more as I think of them. If given a choice, I'd stay here forever (or at least for a very long time anyway).


Here's a thread I started a couple of years ago about the same topic. https://texags.com/forums/55/topics/2534076
histag10
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Glad you are enjoying it! If you ever get the hankering for some good southern style barbeque, got to Blues BBQ in the Heights like you are going to Lake Elmo. Its attached to a gas station, and it looks odd, but damn if it doesnt have some really good BBQ. The guy that owns it (and cooks the meat) is from OK and its the best bbq I've had at a restaurant up here. And very good prices.

Also, I had never tried this place until my boss kept nagging me about it, but The Montana Club is actually REALLY good with decent prices. Kind of like a Cheddars and a steak house combined. They have pretty great breakfast too (in the same area as the Zoo by the Big Horn Resort).

I'd say we should all try to get together for Muster, but with it being on a Friday, I dont think we could make it to Billings for anything. Though we will likely be there in the next month for a weekend shopping trip.

Hope ya'lls melt goes better than ours. It stayed above 40 all night, and now everything is just nasty.
El Chupacabra
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histag10 said:

Glad you are enjoying it! If you ever get the hankering for some good southern style barbeque, got to Blues BBQ in the Heights like you are going to Lake Elmo. Its attached to a gas station, and it looks odd, but damn if it doesnt have some really good BBQ. The guy that owns it (and cooks the meat) is from OK and its the best bbq I've had at a restaurant up here. And very good prices.

Also, I had never tried this place until my boss kept nagging me about it, but The Montana Club is actually REALLY good with decent prices. Kind of like a Cheddars and a steak house combined. They have pretty great breakfast too (in the same area as the Zoo by the Big Horn Resort).

I'd say we should all try to get together for Muster, but with it being on a Friday, I dont think we could make it to Billings for anything. Though we will likely be there in the next month for a weekend shopping trip.

Hope ya'lls melt goes better than ours. It stayed above 40 all night, and now everything is just nasty.
yup, sloppy mess in Billings right now and will be for another week or so. I think we're in the 40's for the next 2 weeks...t-shirt weather, didn't even wear a jacket today!

I've been to Blues...but after living in KC for a year and eating Texas brisket a lot of my life...it's just okay. We make it there for lunch pretty often. Haven't tried the Montana Club, but heard good things.

My biggest complaint or miss as far as food is a good Mexican (TexMex) joint.
histag10
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Per my boss, Guadalajara is the closest you will get to decent TexMex type food in Billings. There is a little taqueria that people say is good, but I havent tried it. Taqueria Zapotlan (it used to be a food truck, but moved brick and mortar). If you ever make it into ND, there is a little taqueria in Dickinson that is pretty great actually, El Paricutin. Very authentic, and they even sell raw meats and have essentially a mexican market.

Blues is the best BBQ restaurant we have found, but we still prefer to just smoke our own meats, which we do frequently in the summer. Thats one of the things I hate about Winter up here- you cant really get out and grill or smoke anything.
Copernicus
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Thank you everyone for the great feedback! Definitely, keep it coming! We are not huge shoppers, by any means. A Walmart or Target works for us. An Academy would be great, but I am sure there are options in that area. We like H-E-B, but again, I know there are options there as well.

As far as drugs and crime, I just wanted to know that it is sparse and avoidable like BCS more than anything. Also, does it look like the local PD is effective at keeping it in check?

On the food selection, we love TexMex and have tons of options here obviously. It helps to know that we have something that might work. Same on the BBQ. We know it will not be the same, but don't want to lose the option all together. We can normally find something on the menu that we love anywhere. It might just take a couple of visits. We love smoking and grilling, so we would do that as much as weather allows anyway.

On our kids' education, we take an active role now, so we would just continue doing so. We just want to make sure they would be challenged intellectually and grow. My oldest seems to have the drive to learn more and be a top performer. Our youngest seems to be the same. CSISD ranks very high, and we know that will be hard to find. However, we don't want to settle for a sub-standard education either.

Regarding taxes, property taxes look like it would be roughly half compared to our current situation. That would help even out some on the home price variance. Sales tax is quite high here, so I am hoping that would help some in regards to income tax. It really looks like the taxes appear to wash overall. Is that what you have experienced?

Most of our personal travel would be by car, so the additional cost and time to fly is a non-factor. We typically only fly for a vacation once a year at most.

Cost of living would be a jump obviously. The cheapest gas here is around $1.92/gallon. Cheap, large eggs around $1.50/dz. Generic 2% milk floats between $2-2.50/gallon. How does that compare to you? What % would you guess that you spend more in basic food, gas, utilities, etc. when comparing to Houston for example? 10%? 20%?

I enjoy the cold, more than the heat. I loathe the summers here and I am typically miserable. I love snow, and love skiing, etc. I don't think I will have a lot of trouble with that.

How is the job market in Billings? I am a purchasing manager with experience in healthcare and facility maintenance. My wife is an office manager for a private practice doctor.
histag10
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Copernicus said:



Cost of living would be a jump obviously. The cheapest gas here is around $1.92/gallon. Cheap, large eggs around $1.50/dz. Generic 2% milk floats between $2-2.50/gallon. How does that compare to you? What % would you guess that you spend more in basic food, gas, utilities, etc. when comparing to Houston for example? 10%? 20%?

How is the job market in Billings? I am a purchasing manager with experience in healthcare and facility maintenance. My wife is an office manager for a private practice doctor.


No academy, but there is a cabelas and scheels (like Academy on steroids).

Gas is around $2.20. Dozen eggs are $2.50-3, milk is around 3.50 a gallon Today I paid just under 4.60 for a gallon.

Job market in Billings is not bad. There is a ton in the way of Healthcare.

It's kind of a wash on taxes, but I'd honestly rather pay sales tax. Also, scuttlebutt is that there are proposals to add a 3 or 4% sales tax, in conjunction with the income tax (I deal with a lot of politicians and people with political sway). Also, registering a vehicle is crazy expensive. I pay just over $350 a year for my 5 year old cross over suv.

Mean to add- Police are doing a good bit to fight the drugs. There was a big push after Billings was part of a Drugs, Inc. or Vice episode. Its really not horrible though, and as long as your kids know good and bad areas of town, it should be fine.
62strat
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Matsui said:

People in Texas take for granted how cheap housing is

A nice neighborhood with good schools, close to Houston? That isn't cheap. Add on 2-3% prop tax, and it's definitely not cheap. I'd say it's quite expensive.



histag10
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62strat said:

Matsui said:

People in Texas take for granted how cheap housing is

A nice neighborhood with good schools, close to Houston? That isn't cheap. Add on 2-3% prop tax, and it's definitely not cheap. I'd say it's quite expensive.






I think its more a quality and price issue, at least here. In most parts of Texas, $200K will get you a pretty nice house, and in some areas will get you a new build. Here, 200K will get you a semi renovated 100+ year old house on a tiny lot (less than 1/4 acre). By renovated, I mean wiring/electrical is up to code, and they may have put in new cabinets in the past 50 years. You MAY have central air/heat.
62strat
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histag10 said:

62strat said:

Matsui said:

People in Texas take for granted how cheap housing is

A nice neighborhood with good schools, close to Houston? That isn't cheap. Add on 2-3% prop tax, and it's definitely not cheap. I'd say it's quite expensive.






I think its more a quality and price issue, at least here. In most parts of Texas, $200K will get you a pretty nice house, and in some areas will get you a new build. Here, 200K will get you a semi renovated 100+ year old house on a tiny lot (less than 1/4 acre). By renovated, I mean wiring/electrical is up to code, and they may have put in new cabinets in the past 50 years. You MAY have central air/heat.
But your $200k mortgage is going to be quite a bit less than the same in TX.

Now, that may get washed in state income, or veh reg.. whatever.. but those are independent of the cost of the house. Prop tax is not.

If I bought a house where I used to live in Houston burbs, at the exact same price I paid for my home now, it would be $975 more in TX due to the difference in my prop tax rates. Granted, the TX house will be larger, nicer but, is it $1000 a month nicer/larger? Is a home like mine now going to be cheap enough in TX to offset that large difference?

Who knows.

Also, a 100 year old home on a 1/10 acre lot in the Heights $600k.
histag10
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62strat said:

histag10 said:

62strat said:

Matsui said:

People in Texas take for granted how cheap housing is

A nice neighborhood with good schools, close to Houston? That isn't cheap. Add on 2-3% prop tax, and it's definitely not cheap. I'd say it's quite expensive.






I think its more a quality and price issue, at least here. In most parts of Texas, $200K will get you a pretty nice house, and in some areas will get you a new build. Here, 200K will get you a semi renovated 100+ year old house on a tiny lot (less than 1/4 acre). By renovated, I mean wiring/electrical is up to code, and they may have put in new cabinets in the past 50 years. You MAY have central air/heat.
But your $200k mortgage is going to be quite a bit less than the same in TX.

Now, that may get washed in state income, or veh reg.. whatever.. but those are independent of the cost of the house. Prop tax is not.

If I bought a house where I used to live in Houston burbs, at the exact same price I paid for my home now, it would be $975 more in TX due to the difference in my prop tax rates. Granted, the TX house will be larger, nicer but, is it $1000 a month nicer/larger? Is a home like mine now going to be cheap enough in TX to offset that large difference?

Who knows.

Also, a 100 year old home on a 1/10 acre lot in the Heights $600k.


And I'm sure that house has been restored and is nice.

My house has been a duplex, single family, and "renovated" several times with no real rhyme or reason for why things were done. When we bought, it had 6 different types of flooring. Half plaster half sheetrock, and my kitchen had 4 different types of cabinets, all different colors.

Yes, most big cities in upscale neighborhoods would be more, but that's not what was being discussed here.

The average person in texas is able to buy a much nicer house (even including property tax in most instances), than can be done in most other states for the same price. Your dollar just goes further in texas when it comes to real estate.
62strat
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If it's fully restored, it's probably $800k

Just like anywhere, if it's a desirable place to live, it's expensive. TX is no exception.



Dixie
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I actually am flying in to Bozeman next Saturday. I'm coming up to look at a cabin and 20 acres off the grid near Anaconda. Vacation home for next few years then summer residence after retirement. Is anyone familiar with this area?
histag10
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It's a decent area. Small town. Great scenery. You are near butte, missoula, and helena.

I know a little about the area, but not a ton. Definitely a WAY nicer part of the state than I am in.

If you can get land in that area with water/electricity for a decent price per acre, I'd jump at it in a heartbeat. It's typically expensive and hard to acquire land in that part of the state (though the Bitterroot and Flathead are even tougher)
Dixie
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Thanks for the info! Cabin has solar power, a well, and indoor plumbing. I'm excited about the possibility.
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