Girardi out in New York

3,133 Views | 37 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by . . .
Quincey P. Morris
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AG
I was wondering if he survived even with the ALCS birth.
Frok
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Two for two. Roberts next?
Wabs
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He probably was asking for more than the Yankees are willing to pay a manager. Nats will probably hire him...
BowSowy
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Wabs said:

He probably was asking for more than the Yankees are willing to pay a manager. Nats will probably hire him...
Wouldn't be shocked to see him end up with the White Sox either this year or next.
HossAg
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Pretty ****ed up to fire him after this season's run with a young team that wasn't expected to do well.
AgDotCom
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Good for the Astros next year should they make an expected playoff run.

The Yankees could be better with someone new at the helm instead of Girardi, but I think the chances are better they won't.
Bones08
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This decision makes little to no sense. One game from the World Series during a "rebuilding" year.
Wabs
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Maybe they were going to fire him next year but since they are "a year ahead of schedule" they decided to go ahead and can him.
titanmaster_race
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Wabs said:

Maybe they were going to fire him next year but since they are "a year ahead of schedule" they decided to go ahead and can him.
Memphis 7
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New York doing New York things...

Seems incredibly idiotic.

Any chance he goes to Washington?
Eliminatus
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Quote:

Everything this organization does is done with careful and thorough consideration, and we've decided to pursue alternatives for the managerial position.

Who the hell are they looking at right now then to fill his spot?
Know Your Enemy
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Eliminatus said:

Quote:

Everything this organization does is done with careful and thorough consideration, and we've decided to pursue alternatives for the managerial position.

Who the hell are they looking at right now then to fill his spot?
Billy Martin
BowSowy
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Eliminatus said:

Quote:

Everything this organization does is done with careful and thorough consideration, and we've decided to pursue alternatives for the managerial position.

Who the hell are they looking at right now then to fill his spot?
John Farrell.
Ecce Homo
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I believe Joe Buck talked Steinbrenner's ghost into making Judge manager.
jkag89
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Wonder if Jeter can entice him to return to Miami.
Furlock Bones
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Girardi sounded like he wasn't sure he wanted to come back. Clearly, things between him and the front office soured on some personal level.
aka Sloan Kettering aka Lazlo Hollyfeld
MelvinUdall
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IMO the Yankees are moving in the direction of the Astros, in that they are going to use analytics a lot more and I don't believe that Girardi buys into that type of coaching. I could be wrong, but seeing what the Astros have done with about $100 million less in payroll is having an impact across baseball. I may be way off in my assessment, just my feeling about this firing.
BMX Bandit
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Michael Kay said this morning the analytics issue is exactly why Girardi it out
Quincey P. Morris
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If teams are moving that way because of the Astros, I think that's folly. The Astros payroll isn't low because they used analytics to get more from less and thereby paid less. The Astros payroll is low because they made a hardcore commitment to being terrible for years on end and stockpiled young talent. Guys like Altuve, Correa, Springer, Keuchel and McCullers would be expensive by Yankee standards if they hit the open market today. I'm not knocking the Astros with this, but I don't think analytics are the reason for the Astros success.
Ag_07
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Lucky #007 said:

If teams are moving that way because of the Astros, I think that's folly. The Astros payroll isn't low because they used analytics to get more from less and thereby paid less. The Astros payroll is low because they made a hardcore commitment to being terrible for years on end and stockpiled young talent. Guys like Altuve, Correa, Springer, Keuchel and McCullers would be expensive by Yankee standards if they hit the open market today. I'm not knocking the Astros with this, but I don't think analytics are the reason for the Astros success.

Quincey P. Morris
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Say what you will but that's what the team was built on. It's not like you found some no name veterans either. Your core, producing players are in place on the cheap which is the entire reason your payroll is low. If those five are being paid market value, your payroll explodes. I'm not poking at the merits of the method, but it absolutely was the method and it has you in the World Series so...
MelvinUdall
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Lucky #007 said:

If teams are moving that way because of the Astros, I think that's folly. The Astros payroll isn't low because they used analytics to get more from less and thereby paid less. The Astros payroll is low because they made a hardcore commitment to being terrible for years on end and stockpiled young talent. Guys like Altuve, Correa, Springer, Keuchel and McCullers would be expensive by Yankee standards if they hit the open market today. I'm not knocking the Astros with this, but I don't think analytics are the reason for the Astros success.


I am not suggesting that the Yankees are going to spend less or tear down, what I do believe they are looking to do is use the analytics to their advantage on the field and decision making when acquiring players. They aren't going to give a player $200 million if it doesn't fit their metrics, that is not to say they won't pay that money when the player does. You are right the Astros did tear down and have players under control and at some point they will need to decide to offer a large contract to a Correa, Altuve, Springer, etc., but the way they were able to turn it around was based on analytics and drafting and acquiring players that fit their data.
TXAggie2011
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It's true that the Astros winning with this group with a "low" payroll is a temporary thing and that this group will soon cost a lot of money.

But I think, even just with regard to the "core" roster, perhaps you're underestimating the difficulty of getting drafts and amateur signings so "right", even when you have some high draft picks.

And I think they've made a few nice veteran signings.

The ironic thing about that is Joe Girardi has nothing to do with the drafting and free agent side of the Yankees.

Now, analytics matters within a game and Girardi does have something to do with that. And perhaps you owe more credit to Hinch and the Astros for the in game analytical approach.


The Astros analytical skills will certainly carry more weight outside Houston if they keep winning when they have to start paying some of their players the real big bucks.
MelvinUdall
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Yes the in game analytics is huge if a GM is picking your players based on analytics. Look, I am not a fan of Himch's quick trigger on pitchers, but there is no doubt that he is using data in that decision.
TXAggie2011
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I think it's probably pretty meaningful even if your GM isn't picking players based on MIT-Stanford level analytics.

Use whatever you have in the best way possible.
MelvinUdall
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TXAggie2011 said:

I think it's probably pretty meaningful even if your GM isn't picking players based on MIT-Stanford level analytics.

Use whatever you have in the best way possible.


True. My point was that a GM and manager must be in sync when it comes to analytics.
94chem
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Quote:

If teams are moving that way because of the Astros, I think that's folly. The Astros payroll isn't low because they used analytics to get more from less and thereby paid less. The Astros payroll is low because they made a hardcore commitment to being terrible for years on end and stockpiled young talent. Guys like Altuve, Correa, Springer, Keuchel and McCullers would be expensive by Yankee standards if they hit the open market today.
And don't forget, Houston took millions of dollars from Springer by keeping him in the minors just so he wouldn't reach free agency sooner. I doubt Springer has forgotten this, and will be reminding management of it frequently. I wouldn't expect him to take a hometown discount.
Beat40
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Lucky #007 said:

Say what you will but that's what the team was built on. It's not like you found some no name veterans either. Your core, producing players are in place on the cheap which is the entire reason your payroll is low. If those five are being paid market value, your payroll explodes. I'm not poking at the merits of the method, but it absolutely was the method and it has you in the World Series so...
I think everyone knows the Astros have a core of young players who are cheap. I think everyone knows the Astros are not keeping all of them once they come up for free agency.

The reason teams may follow the Astros down the path of analytics is the analytics aren't just being used to make decisions at the big league club level and for game decisions. They are also being used with talent evaluation, such as who to draft, pick up in free agency, trades, etc.

It's been widely discussed the Astros seem to have a good minor league system with multiple top prospects. This certainly was evidenced at the trade deadline.

So, when the time comes to pay the cheap core of young players, the Astros seemingly have the ability to chose who to pay the big money and keep as their core going forward while calling up guys that just might turn into the next core of young players with favorable contract positions. Payroll would still stay lower than most teams if this plays out. And, for the Astros, analytics very much will have driven this.

Of another note - I listened to another broadcast where they said most teams ADD scouts for the playoffs. The Astros FIRED scouts before the playoffs. The assumption is the analytics are good enough to make up for not having the scouts. That in and of itself is a cost savings and a radical shift in thinking for baseball. If it works, it could catch on.
MelvinUdall
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94chem said:

Quote:

If teams are moving that way because of the Astros, I think that's folly. The Astros payroll isn't low because they used analytics to get more from less and thereby paid less. The Astros payroll is low because they made a hardcore commitment to being terrible for years on end and stockpiled young talent. Guys like Altuve, Correa, Springer, Keuchel and McCullers would be expensive by Yankee standards if they hit the open market today.
And don't forget, Houston took millions of dollars from Springer by keeping him in the minors just so he wouldn't reach free agency sooner. I doubt Springer has forgotten this, and will be reminding management of it frequently. I wouldn't expect him to take a hometown discount.


Maybe, but I am curious if the Astros even want to sign him long term. With the talent they have in the OF coming up, I doubt he is going to be an astro when the time comes. And let's not act like that every team doesn't do what the Astros do with players in the minors. Also, this was his first season in which he was a stud,.
BMX Bandit
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I expect them to let Springer walk when he hits free agency
MelvinUdall
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One thing they did with their system was to make sure each of their players were being taught the same thing whether it was hitting style or pitching, they are all coming up with the same learned habits.
MelvinUdall
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BMX Bandit said:

I expect them to let Springer walk when he hits free agency

Yep, they have Fisher and Kyle Tucker waiting in the wings.

I do expect them to pay Correa and Altuve, I am curious of their thought process on Keuchel.
Beat40
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BMX Bandit said:

I expect them to let Springer walk when he hits free agency
I expect the same as well.

The biggest question for me is Dallas, Jose, and Carlos. I think you can only keep two of those in my opinion. Who is the odd man out?
MelvinUdall
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Beat40 said:

BMX Bandit said:

I expect them to let Springer walk when he hits free agency
I expect the same as well.

The biggest question for me is Dallas, Jose, and Carlos. I think you can only keep two of those in my opinion. Who is the odd man out?


Keuchel, IMO.
BMX Bandit
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Agree. Keuchel least likely to be around
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