This kid could be like Trout. Some analyst were predicting not all star, but hall of fame? Of course that is hard to say, but why would you trade someone this young and risk trading that kind of potential player?

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potential player

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ding ding ding

3 good players, two positions, one of those players with extremely high trade value.

why not trade kinsler for a pitcher, pay half his salary.

Profar to the Astros for Bud Norris and Brett Wallace, book it.

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This kid could be like Trout

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Hold your horses.

I can remember the DVD boys were all going to the HOF. They could have gotten Babe Ruth for those three.

2 of the 3 turned into pretty good pitchers for a period of time...

He's not going to be like Trout.

What you're hoping for is more of a Jeter type player.

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Profar to the Astros for Bud Norris and Brett Wallace, book it.

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Talmbout

THEY BETTER NOT TRADE THE TANK!!!!!

I don't think we have the luxury of labeling him as an untouchable if the right deal comes our way

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I don't think we have the luxury of labeling him as an untouchable if the right deal comes our way

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Exactly right.


About the only thing nearing untouchable is Altuve... and maybe Castro.

altuve and castro are now rated above profar as far as potential?

Where did you get that?

Ya I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

Isn't it obvious? Castro>Profar and Altuve>Profar

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altuve and castro are now rated above profar as far as potential?

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LOL. What a dumbass thing to say.

[This message has been edited by RealTalk (edited 5/31/2013 5:58p).]

If you have the chance to trade a potential all-star infielder for an existing all-star outifielder(who is also young), I don't see how you pass it up.

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altuve and castro are now rated above profar as far as potential?

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Considering this is Altuve's list for most similar player through age 22 according to baseball-reference is Rod Carew. Pete Rose also makes an appearance on that list. That's potential that's not too bad.

Because you will have more interest and get more in return than you would by dangling Pop Up Kinsler.

The longer Profar plays, the less we have to package with him.

That being said I am not moving him unless we get a player under several years of control at a decent price. As Newberg stated in his update, Cliff Lee is under control, but for $20M+ each year, that doesn't make sense to move the best prospect in baseball for.

I want 1 of 2 or 3 guys if Profar is included, however the more he plays, the less I want to move him. Really wish we hadn't locked up Ian.

Well...Kinsler is a slow healer...we may have Profar starting till early July.

A trade of Profar for Cliff Lee would only be discussed with Philly taking on at at least half of his remaining contract.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the strategy of locking up both Kinsler and Andrus on deals that weren't exactly sweetheart hometown deals, all while a prospect like Profar is on the rise. I know that no prospet is can't-miss, but it seems like some patience would have left a lot more flexibility.

Danny
Two words: Joaquin Arias

Locking up Kinsler was about maintaining certainty. Without Andrus locked up and Boras his agent, our middle infield was in uncertainty. Profar was still a long ways out, and as most on here have suggested and still suggest... Profar was (and is) still just a prospect.

With many prospects, they get a heavy dose of fastballs when they get called up. Teams want a prospect to prove they can hit the fastball. Then comes the mixing up of pitches. Now that Profar has shown he can hit major league pitching... let's see how he does once teams find the holes in his swing. He is hitting .324\2HR in 10 Games and 27 ABs. He hit .281\14 HR \16 SB in AA, last year. I would be truly amazed if he finishes 2013 above .300\20HRs. Hopeful... but not convinced.

Many players start strong... not everyone is Mike Trout.

Given the choice of Andrus OR Kinz, yes Andrus. However, Kinz' contract was up before Andrus. You could make the argument signing Kinz had a positive affect on getting Andrus locked up. I'm not sure how much that was a factor. But, if you bring Profar up at 2B, and Andrus still headed for FA, Boras would have gotten much more money. With Profar waiting at SS, Andrus had more reason to negotiate, IMO.

Patience... most didn't expect Profar until 2014. Most on here were calling Profar "just a prospect" until his call-up. Most expected him to be returned to AAA after Kinz came back.

How things could have gone differently... Rewind to Spring 2012.

Kinsler was scheduled to make:
2012: $7M
2013: $10M - Team option
2014: FA

Andrus was scheduled to make:
2012: $2.375M
2013: $4.8M
2014: $6.48M
2015: FA

So, you look long-term in 2012 and your 2B is scheduled for FA after 2013 and your SS after 2014. You have a hot-shot Middle IF (Profar) who just turned 19 and completed A, whom you are sending to AA. You have another high ceiling Middle IF (Leury Garcia) who is 21, also headed to AA. Most didn't have either really reaching Arlington until 2014. Even as late as the start of 2013, Garcia was a Utility guy holding the spot because Profar needed more ABs than to play rover. So, go into 2013 with a soon-to-be FA and opening at 2B, or lock Kins up?! If not for Kinz' injury, Profar would still be in RR tearing it up. Or he could be where Olt is.

On April 11, 2012, it was announced Ian Kinsler had signed a five-year extension for $75M.
New contract went for Kinsler:
2013: $13M
2014: $16M
2015: $16M
2016: $14M
2017: $11M
2018: $12M\$5M buyout

That really isn't a terrible contract. They gave him $3M more in 2013. 2014 and 2015 could end up being expensive, but as the price comes down... the end of that contract is serviceable, IMO.

Berkman is making $10M to DH. We are paying Kinz $3M more to play 2B in 2013.
Berkman will make $12M to DH, in 2014. We'll pay Kinz $4M more to play defense somewhere (OF?) in 2014. Or we'll move him in the offseason.

MANY teams are looking for a 2B and many will make a run at Robinson Cano, if he becomes a FA. There will be 3-4 teams who lose out on Cano, looking to strengthen their 2B position. The Rangers won't be one of them. Kinz and Cano would have both been FAs after 2013, and once the bidding on Cano escalated, you could have been assured, the price of Kinz would have followed.

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Two words: Joaquin Arias

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Is this a joke? The only comparison between the two is that they are both middle infielders.

The comparison to Joaquin Arias is that he was a highly regarded, high ceiling Rangers prospect that most projected would be essentially what Andrus is.

He never became a full-time ML player.

We can look now at Profar and see what he has done in this short stint, but no one predicted two years ago, that he'd have this success, this early, and 2 weeks does not a RoY, MVP, or HoF make.

He was projected to have potential when was in A ball, similar to thousands of prospects that did absolutely nothing in their careers. There is absolutely no comparison between Profar now and when Arias was considered to be worth anything.

Fen - The question is 2 years after extending Kinz, why did we sign Kinz to a contract extension Pre-2012.

So, we look through the lens of pre-2012 season.

My point was, as we look from this week's performance, it looks like patience may have paid off. That patience is easy to embrace with Profar's recent success, but 2 years ago, Profar could have ended up "similar to thousands of prospects that did absolutely nothing in their careers."

We also can't predict that similar to Chris Davis (22:.285\17HRs in 80 Games) and Moreland that the wheels won't come completely off soon after half a season... with everyone ready to dump them as a failed bust, only to reemerge some 4-5 years later.

Extending Kinz and Andrus seemed like no brainers and contracts that at the time to signing were great for everyone.

Yeah, that seems like a huge stretch. With both players, they had 2 years of control left at the time of the deals, so it seemed like they had one more year to fit the pieces together, with last year being a critical year in continuing to evaluate Profar. I think they should have kept their powder dry in early 2012 and then made their long-term move(s) this offseason. I just don't see that great of savings from the Kinsler deal to make it worthwhile doing a year or two before you needed to, especially if you have any faith in your system.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 6/3/2013 12:32p).]

I don't have a big issue with the contracts really (not sure that either live up to the full value but it's better than paying FA prices if you want to keep them). Just don't agree with the comparison, even if you're looking at it from the offseason prior to 2012. Profar was a top 10 prospect in all of baseball at that point. The highest Arias ever got was top 10 in his own team's system.

So Danny, lets pretend.

Let's assume you don't extend either Kinz or Andrus.

Right now... you have Kinz who becomes a FA after this season... You have Andrus set to be a FA after 2014.

It would make all the sense in the world to do what? I'm curious to see how you process this as GM. You can assume the player says both: once 2013 starts negotiations are closed, or I'll sign during the season if it is right. So, you can chose to take into consideration what Profar has done the past 2 weeks, or not.

The reason I ask is so I get a sense how people see things, so in 6 months or 2 years, how their analysis played out. It will be easy to look back at the 2013 season, with knowledge of Playoffs and season to say, "yeah... should've done that."

FIFY:

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Profar was a top 1 prospect in all of baseball at that point.

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I basically told you what I would have done. I don't do anything pre-2012 because I just don't need to, then after last season, I'm picking the one I want to make sure is a part of my middle infield for the next 5-6 years (likely Andrus) and work out a deal. I likely have a sit-down with Kinsler as well to see what kind of arrangement we can get to, but if he makes it to FA this offseason, so be it. I ended up having to pay him $16MM per year for the next few seasons. How much worse could it be if I decide I need him? This is a guy that has never hit all that well outside of the Ballpark. I don't see anyone breaking the bank to give him much more than that. By not signing him early, I also saved myself some cash this year that I can just roll into future years if I need it to help get a deal done - again, if I decide I need to. With that extra year to help me evaluate Profar more thoroughly which I think you could at least see him as an adequate replacement for Kinsler (if not superior), then I'm taking my $16MM and looking for an OF bat this offseason.

Maybe they'll flip Profar for something that is awesome and long-term, but at this point, I'm having trouble getting excited about the prospect of paying Ian Kinsler $16MM per year to be my Nellie Cruz replacement.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 6/3/2013 1:56p).]