Why is Popovich considered one of the greatest coaches?

5,162 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Slamn Sharpe
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Serious question, no trolling here, I promise. I'm not a big NBA guy so I have no real perspective on it.

Pop is always referred to as one of the best coaches ever, etc., etc. but with Duncan and Kawhi off the roster (or not playing for most of the season) The Spurs have been mediocre at best and at times just awful.

To the casual observer it sure seems his rep was earned by having a couple of the best players ever on his squad rather than some elite coaching prowess.

I'm an idiot but tell me why am an idiot about this in particular.
Iowaggie
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All the great coaches had great players.

All those great coaches were less great without those players.
Head Ninja In Charge
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Easy. Good coaches know how to get the most out of average players. Great coaches know how to get the most out of great players, which to me is much harder than the other thing. X's and O's is cake, but to be able to command a locker room and the players who lead the locker room, that's a different thing. See Mark Jackson and Steve Kerr. See Randy Moss in 2007.
AgNColorado
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I'm a huge spurs fan but Pop has had one of the easiest locker rooms to deal with with Robinson, Duncan, Parker, and Manu. He had the leaders on his team to make his life a little easier.
Ol Jock 99
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Not a spurs guy...5 rings. Huge number of wins. 3x Coach of the Year. Pretty easy question.
Enzo The Baker
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I think what makes Pop historically great is that he can adapt his team's style of play with great success. Slow it down Inside out with Tim. Motion and ball movement with the Beautiful Game group. Iso ball with Kawhi. That's what makes him one of the greatest. His ability to adapt, while maintaining elite defenses. A couple mediocre seasons and one bad season at the end of his incredible career doesn't change that.

Now, I do think that an argument can be made that maybe he's not the right coach for this generation of players.
Ulrich
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The culture that has been maintained over the years of individual ego being subsumed by team success. Particularly noticeable with guys like Parker and Ginobili who could have been lead stars on their own teams.

First to analytics with the corner 3 and especially with defensive innovations guiding opposing teams to fill up on bad shots. The spurs changed the league; the Morey rockets and Kerr warriors are the next step in that trend.

First to really mine the international market for underappreciated talent, which is how they snagged Ginobili, Parker, and many other players well below where they should have been selected.

First era, 1997 to 2005, was all about stifling defense and running the 4-down grind on offense. Made a complete stylistic change to guard-centric pick-and-roll offense in 2006-2007. Then in about 2013, shifted to the free-flowing, fast paced "beautiful game" offense with no center of gravity, tons of off-ball movement, and half second pass/shoot decisions. He won titles with all three styles and largely with the same key players, and did it against the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, the early oughts Pistons, Nash/Stoudamire Suns, LeBron Cavs, the Heatles, Nowitzki Mavs, and half a dozen other great teams.

To me the last title is the one that really cemented his stature. The key players were all either past their prime, before their prime, or Patty Mills, and they destroyed the Lebron Heat. They were fast paced run and gun with unheard of offensive efficiency, but still throttled people defensively when they chose. No one played 30 mpg and TP led them in scoring with less than 17 ppg. This was the style Kerr adapted to Golden State.

Pop's coaching tree includes Brett Brown at Philadelphia, Mike Budenholzer who has now won CoY at two different teams, Borrego at Charlotte, Quin Snyder in Utah, and a few other former head coaches.

Right now Pop is struggling with too many low efficiency, no defense, ball dominant iso players. For the first time his team physically looks like it should be good, but it doesn't have the intelligence and focus of those title teams. He has to take some of the criticism for that, but i never expected a team with Aldridge, Rudy Gay, and DeRozan to be much good. It looks like something the Knicks would try.
West Texan
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Iowaggie said:

All the great coaches had great players.

All those great coaches were less great without those players.


This is true of any coach, in any sport, at any level.
Ulrich
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It also shouldn't be overlooked that there was some pressure to take Keith Van Horn over Tim Duncan. He was more of an outside scorer that some thought would pair better with Robinson, and that Duncan/Robinson were too similar to coexist effectively. KVH was drafted second overall, scored 20 a game for a few years, and then quietly disappeared. Looking back it's a no-brainer, but worse draft decisions have been made.
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Ol Jock 99 said:

Not a spurs guy...5 rings. Huge number of wins. 3x Coach of the Year. Pretty easy question.

Seems like you kinda missed the point.
Would he have those credentials and ergo that reputation without the benefit of Duncan, etc?
They've now lost 7 in a row for the first time since before Duncan was a Spur. Hence the genesis of my question.
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Iowaggie said:

All the great coaches had great players.

All those great coaches were less great without those players.

No doubt. Great players help coaches. But it seems to me that a great coach making players great should be the criteria, not the other way around.

I'm not saying Pop is a bad coach, I hope that's not the impression I gave off.
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Enzo and Ulrich....
Good stuff. That's the kind of insight I was looking for.

BTW Enzo, I love your user name.
Hudson2508
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What Pop did in 2012-2014 with an aging Duncan, Parker and Manu, was flat out brilliance. Some of the best basketball that was ever played and the philosophy started with Pop. It was a culmination of what they built over the years and that foundation was Pop and Duncan. He nearly beat one of the greatest super teams twice in the finals. Should have won 13.

Also, without Pop, Timmy probably goes to Orlando in free agency.
Enzo The Baker
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Not to mention the Spurs team in 17 that was completely dismantling what many consider to be the best team of all time in the Warriors on the road in game 1. The warriors went on to lose only one game that post season. It's speculation of course but I believe that Spurs team was going to go toe to toe with the Warriors if Kawhi wasn't injured. One super star versus four.
Obi Wan Ginobili
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What a stupid thread.
$240 Worth of Pudding
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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

What a stupid thread.

Oh yeah? Not as stupid as your face I bet.
hph6203
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Watch the games, watch the way the Spurs played versus most of the rest of the league. Then don't ask this question, because the answer would be obvious. He has over 20 years of opportunity for you to get your answer, but you're focusing on a season where their roster is pretty junk.

Go look at Belichick during his Cleveland years and ask if he's a bad coach.
.
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hph6203 said:

Watch the games, watch the way the Spurs played versus most of the rest of the league. Then don't ask this question, because the answer would be obvious. He has over 20 years of opportunity for you to get your answer, but you're focusing on a season where their roster is pretty junk.

Go look at Belichick during his Cleveland years and ask if he's a bad coach.

No. Read my OP. I'm not an NBA guy. I just hear tidbits on sports radio and it sparked a thought /question. Thought I'd made that pretty clear at the outset. It was an honest, innocent question. Some of you guys come off really insecure.

As for the Belichick comment, I considered that in the lead up to asking the question. His Jets and Browns teams were garbage. He took over for the Pats in 2000 and promptly went 5-11 that season and was 0-2 in 2001 when Bledsoe got hurt and they had to turn to Brady. It's easy to suddenly be a genius when you have the greatest QB of all time (who happens to be immortal) on your team. It'll be interesting to see how successful he is when Brady decides to hang them up in 50 years.
South Platte
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Ol Jock 99 said:

Not a spurs guy...5 rings. Huge number of wins. 3x Coach of the Year. Pretty easy question.
Same.
Cappo
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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

What a stupid thread.
beat me to it
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Cappo said:

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

What a stupid thread.
beat me to it


Go cry about it. Jesus y'all are soft.
WES2006AG
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It sure seems like nobody was asking this question before Pop started talking about his politics. Maybe there is no correlation but this isn't the first time I've seen people asking. Anybody that doesn't think Pop is an all-time great coach needs to gain more knowledge of the NBA and sports in general.
$240 Worth of Pudding
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WES2006AG said:

It sure seems like nobody was asking this question before Pop started talking about his politics. Maybe there is no correlation but this isn't the first time I've seen people asking. Anybody that doesn't think Pop is an all-time great coach needs to gain more knowledge of the NBA and sports in general.

Once again, see my OP. I readily admit my knowledge of the NBA is negligible.
500,000ags
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Life long Mavs fan, but Pop is in an echelon by himself. He won with defense. Later, he won with offense. In between, he always won with humility and had respect for the game and his opponent.
Ulrich
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WES2006AG said:

It sure seems like nobody was asking this question before Pop started talking about his politics. Maybe there is no correlation but this isn't the first time I've seen people asking. Anybody that doesn't think Pop is an all-time great coach needs to gain more knowledge of the NBA and sports in general.

I think there's something to this, but not in this thread. This losing streak (7 games) is the worst in the Pop era. They've been under .500 for 9 days of this season so far. And they are doing it with 3 guys who have been all-stars plus a second team defense guard. That's why people are really asking. The talking head universe has been trying to declare the Spurs dead since about 2009, and this is a particularly rough start.

Of course, for the first 22 years of his time as head coach, his two longest losing streaks were 6 games and 4 games. They had been under .500 for just 48 total days since 1997, all right at the beginning of seasons. So the bar is pretty high and that's part of the argument in his favor. Players have come and gone, injuries and age have taken their toll, and the spurs have kept winning through it all.

Personally, I'm not sure he still has his fastball. Not so much on the gameday stuff, but would prime Pop have let his roster get in the shape it's in now with so many guys who play low efficiency basketball? Even for that, I blame age and his wife's battle with cancer more than hubris or political distraction.

Oh, another thing Pop and the Spurs brought to the league is modern load management. Pop used to get fined for leaving guys at home when they needed rest, now everyone does it. Plus I'll always have a soft spot for the guy who created the stat line below:

Duncan, Tim - DNP - Old
Guitarsoup
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Unlike Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Pop won 5 championships without having two all-time great players on the team in their prime.

Robinson in 99 was a 16/10 player. In 2003, Robinson was a 8/8 player. In 2014, Duncan was 37 and a 15/10 player and Kawhi was 22 and a 13/6 player. Parker and Ginobili will be in the HOF in large part because of their international accomplishments, but I don't think anyone would call either and all-time great.

Pop was able to change his style up to win playing slow and brutal defense in the 90s, the beautiful game with some of the best team offense ever.

Auerbach had 4-8 HOFers on his championship teams and a lot of those titles came in a league with less than 10 teams.

Pat Riley had Kareem and Magic as well as Worthy, Wilkes, McAdoo. Then he had prime LeBron+Wade+Bosh.

Phil Jackson had Jordan+Pippen then Kobe+Shaq. Jordan being the GOAT, Pippen being a top 25 or 30 player all time and Kobe and Shaq always being rated in the 5-15 range.

In the modern NBA, only three coaches have more than 3 championships and that is Pop, Riley, and Jackson.

Kerr has 3.
Four coaches have 2 championships in the modern era, four more in the pre-merger era.

There is pretty much no metric you can come up with that wouldn't show Pop is less than one of the greatest coaches ever.
Kellso
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Iowaggie said:

All the great coaches had great players.

All those great coaches were less great without those players.
Bingo.

This reminds me of one of my favorite John Wooden quotes which I will paraphrase:

Someone asked Coach Wooden what were the characteristics of all the other great coaches he faced....and Wooden answered that all the other great coaches coached great players.


For the OP....what Wooden was stating was that X Coach wasn't fantastic because he was some sort of Napoliean level strategist.
X Coach was a great coach because he happened to coach the best players.
Kellso
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hph6203 said:

Watch the games, watch the way the Spurs played versus most of the rest of the league. Then don't ask this question, because the answer would be obvious. He has over 20 years of opportunity for you to get your answer, but you're focusing on a season where their roster is pretty junk.

Go look at Belichick during his Cleveland years and ask if he's a bad coach.
This.
I'm a Mavs fan that despises the Spurs. Anyone questioning Popovich's coaching is someone I can't take seriously.

Kawhi, Tony Parker and Manu were NOT considered locks to be superstar players, but somehow San Antonio always seems to have these players no one has ever heard of kicking ass.

The way the Spurs consistently play defense is out of this world. They've accomplished all of this playing in one of the most podunk cities in the NBA.

Fans of small market teams are always complaining that they can't compete against the NYC's and LA's of the world, yet the Spurs win more than any team in the NBA.
hph6203
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Yelnick McWawa said:

hph6203 said:

Watch the games, watch the way the Spurs played versus most of the rest of the league. Then don't ask this question, because the answer would be obvious. He has over 20 years of opportunity for you to get your answer, but you're focusing on a season where their roster is pretty junk.

Go look at Belichick during his Cleveland years and ask if he's a bad coach.

No. Read my OP. I'm not an NBA guy. I just hear tidbits on sports radio and it sparked a thought /question. Thought I'd made that pretty clear at the outset. It was an honest, innocent question. Some of you guys come off really insecure.

As for the Belichick comment, I considered that in the lead up to asking the question. His Jets and Browns teams were garbage. He took over for the Pats in 2000 and promptly went 5-11 that season and was 0-2 in 2001 when Bledsoe got hurt and they had to turn to Brady. It's easy to suddenly be a genius when you have the greatest QB of all time (who happens to be immortal) on your team. It'll be interesting to see how successful he is when Brady decides to hang them up in 50 years.


If you're not an NBA guy or willing to watch the games then you shouldn't be asking the question. Any explanation you receive isn't going to make sense to you, because you don't watch the games. To understand why he's a great coach you have to watch the games. I don't go around asking people at fashion shows why wearing a trash bag is revolutionary, because I don't care and I have no context for what they'd tell me.

And you can tell Belichick is a great coach by watching the games, because even when he didn't have Brady he won 11 games. We knew he was a great coach even before that though.

It's just genuinely not a good question, and I'm not even a fan.
.
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hph6203 said:

Yelnick McWawa said:

hph6203 said:

Watch the games, watch the way the Spurs played versus most of the rest of the league. Then don't ask this question, because the answer would be obvious. He has over 20 years of opportunity for you to get your answer, but you're focusing on a season where their roster is pretty junk.

Go look at Belichick during his Cleveland years and ask if he's a bad coach.

No. Read my OP. I'm not an NBA guy. I just hear tidbits on sports radio and it sparked a thought /question. Thought I'd made that pretty clear at the outset. It was an honest, innocent question. Some of you guys come off really insecure.

As for the Belichick comment, I considered that in the lead up to asking the question. His Jets and Browns teams were garbage. He took over for the Pats in 2000 and promptly went 5-11 that season and was 0-2 in 2001 when Bledsoe got hurt and they had to turn to Brady. It's easy to suddenly be a genius when you have the greatest QB of all time (who happens to be immortal) on your team. It'll be interesting to see how successful he is when Brady decides to hang them up in 50 years.


If you're not an NBA guy or willing to watch the games then you shouldn't be asking the questionAny explanation you receive isn't going to make sense to you, because you don't watch the games. To understand why he's a great coach you have to watch the games. I don't go around asking people at fashion shows why wearing a trash bag is revolutionary, because I don't care and I have no context for what they'd tell me.

And you can tell Belichick is a great coach by watching the games, because even when he didn't have Brady he won 11 games. We knew he was a great coach even before that though.

It's just genuinely not a good question, and I'm not even a fan.



Obi Wan Ginobili
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He's got a point. You admit you don't watch basketball, but yet you ask if a coach with 5 rings in 16 years and the third most wins all time is actually a good coach.

You're either legendarily stupid, or a very weak troll.
$240 Worth of Pudding
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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

He's got a point. You admit you don't watch basketball, but yet you ask if a coach with 5 rings in 16 years and the third most wins all time is actually a good coach.

You're either legendarily stupid, or a very weak troll.



It was an honest question based on the personnel he's had vs the predicament he finds himself in this season.
Plenty of dudes came in and gave well thought out, reasoned explanations to help explain his history, methodology. etc. which contribute to his reputation.

Other guys, like your buddy up there who deems himself some sort of gatekeeper of who can and can't ask questions he doesn't like, like a GD 5 year old child, have your heads so far up Pop's ass and/or were unable to provide an answer other than "Because!!" to such a "legendarily stupid" question are so fragile it's pathetic.
Ol Jock 99
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You have argued with every answer given. That means you're trolling.
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Ol Jock 99 said:

You have argued with every answer given. That means you're trolling.

Patently false. Just straight up pulled out of your backside. You're wrong on both counts.

Cue the lazy "See!! You're arguing with that answer now" posts.

Tobthe contrary, I've blue starred a number of posts that actually took the time to provide some insight.

Regardless, I've gotten my answer and I appreciate those of you who provided it rather than clutch at pearls.

Guitarsoup
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So who did you think were the greatest coaches ever?
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