I am curious about a breakdown of all-time great players, if it can be done objectively.

Debates on MJ, Kobe, Lebron I mean, they're all exceptional no body denies that but how would you compare them fairly?

Tim, McHale, Olajuwon... Personally I'd say Timmy hands down but there's typically an "arguably" in front of that.

I was a young kid during the MJ days and knew nothing about basketball, I don't have any nostalgic ties to say he's the best.
Does the era in which a player played a big factor?

If so, how do you factor that in? I've always heard that the old NBA was much more physical and that kobe, curry, etc coudn't compete. On the flip side I also hear that the competition and athleticism today is far beyond the days of MJ and Olajuwon.

Anyway, since bball other is slow I thought this could make a fun discussion.

It's not particularly objective but this is a pretty good start to answering the questions you have:

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Basketball-NBA-According-Sports/dp/0345520106/ref=la_B002621MWK_1_1/147-0212316-1269855?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503076175&sr=1-1

My dream team in their prime:
MJ - 2
Hakeem -5
Barkley - 4
Nash - 1
Bird - 3

Nash was a great distributor of the ball.
MJ can breakdown any defense
Bird will nail the open 3s when teams double team anyone
Barkley is my enforcer on D and the boards
The Dream is the hardest to guard down below and has the best fadeaway jumper of any big man

http://swinginggatedc.com/top-vertical-jumpers-in-the-nba

MJ has the highest recorded vertical jump in NBA history at 48". Forget any nonsense that MJ would not athletically dominate today's NBA players. He would still be a freak at his prime in 2017.

Jordan also had one of the most ruthless & competitive nasty personalities in NBA history. A guy who was always looking for the slightest reason to carry a grudge against an opponent to give him yet another gear to beat them down.

Kobe was not on the same dominate level as MJ.

LeBron is much harder to compare because, unlike Kobe who was also more or less a traditional SG like Mike, LeBron is just a completely different style player than MJ was. In terms of just sheer dominance of his peers, in the bulk of the 90's Jordan did to the entire NBA what LeBron has been doing to the Eastern Conference the last several years.

Barkley was never a great defender and certainly wasn't elite. If you wanted an enforcer/defender, rebounder, why not Garnett?

Nash over Magic, Stockton, Oscar, Kidd, Isiah or even Chris Paul? That one makes no sense.

Guitarsoup said:

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Barkley was never a great defender and certainly wasn't elite. If you wanted an enforcer/defender, rebounder, why not Garnett?

Nash over Magic, Stockton, Oscar, Kidd, Isiah or even Chris Paul? That one makes no sense.

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Kevin Garnett is the most overrated player in NBA history. The King of empty stats and not showing up in the playoffs.

I would also rather have Charles Barkley on my dream team than Garnett.

I'd choose Barkley over Garnett as a PF all day every day. But he specifically said as a defender/rebounder and while Chuck was a great rebounder, he was never a great defender.

There is also the GOAT PF that happened to be elite at defense and rebounding, too.

Kellso said:

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Kevin Garnett is the most overrated player in NBA history. The King of empty stats and not showing up in the playoffs.

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Fool.

Westbrook is the undisputed king of empty stats and D Rose the king of not showing up in the playoffs.

KG is waaaaay down the list of overrated players.

KG is also one of the best defenders of all time. He's probably underrated in many respects because stats don't tell the defensive story.

Not to mention that I never see him high on any "all time" lists. How can he be overrated when he isn't even rated that high. I agree that he's more often underrated than overrated.

Hakeem over anyone else at C. Comparing him and Duncan is not valid because they played different positions.

Hakeem did things that no other C EVER has done or can currently do. Could dribble like a guard, great footwork, had a good power game, post up game, 15 footer, etc. Great defender, shot blocker, and was in the the top tier of getting steals as a freaking center.

He's severely under-rated by most. He played most of his career with nobodies (Sleepy Floyd, etc.).

Kellso said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Barkley was never a great defender and certainly wasn't elite. If you wanted an enforcer/defender, rebounder, why not Garnett?

Nash over Magic, Stockton, Oscar, Kidd, Isiah or even Chris Paul? That one makes no sense.

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Kevin Garnett is the most overrated player in NBA history. The King of empty stats and not showing up in the playoffs.

I would also rather have Charles Barkley on my dream team than Garnett.

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LMAO.

zooguy96 said:

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Hakeem over anyone else at C. Comparing him and Duncan is not valid because they played different positions.

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Sorry bud but if you want to play that game then you're going to have to compare him with Shaq.

Akeem was truly a great player for a while but his versatility does not compete with Shaq's dominance.

CactusThomas said:

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zooguy96 said:

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Hakeem over anyone else at C. Comparing him and Duncan is not valid because they played different positions.

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Sorry bud but if you want to play that game then you're going to have to compare him with Shaq.

Akeem was truly a great player for a while but his versatility does not compete with Shaq's dominance.

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Sorry,

Hakeem was better than Shaq and a more complete player. Shaq was marginally better on the offensive end (mainly due to size), but Hakeem had a better offensive game when ft percentage is taken into account. Where did the "hack a Shaq" saying come into being? Because he sucked at ft shooing, and teams would intentionally foul him at the end of a game. Hakeem was a 71% career ft shooter, while Shaq was at 51%.

But that's not why Hakeem was superior. He was far superior in the defensive end, averaging more rebounds, blocks (nearly 1 block per game more than Shaq) and steals (1.7 per game for his career), which is unheard of for a center.

He was also all NBA defensive 1st team 5 times (to Shaq's zero), all defensive NBA 9 times (to Shaq's 3), and defensive player of the year twice (to Shaq's zero).

Sure, Shaq won more championships, but look who he played with. Kobe and D Wade in their primes with good role players.

The best player Hakeem ever had was Drexler the last year of his career. Hakeem primarily played with scrubs most of his career, and dominated Shaq in their one finals appearance against each other.

It's an easy choice.

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The best player Hakeem ever had was Drexler the last year of his career.

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This always cracks me up about Houston fans. So desperate to pump Hakeem that they pretend that Clyde was a scrub. In 95, Clyde averaged 21/7/4.4/1.8 and put up 21/7/5/1.5 in the playoffs. He was legitimately great.

Guitarsoup said:

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Quote:

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The best player Hakeem ever had was Drexler the last year of his career.

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This always cracks me up about Houston fans. So desperate to pump Hakeem that they pretend that Clyde was a scrub. In 95, Clyde averaged 21/7/4.4/1.8 and put up 21/7/5/1.5 in the playoffs. He was legitimately great.

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I didn't say he was a scrub. Just said that Hakeem didn't have the caliber of players that Shaq, Duncan, etc had most of their careers.

If he would have had a quality secondary player, I think HTown wound have won more championships.

Wilt was a better athlete than any of the C's mentioned above.

Sorry bud but Hakeem never played with a Kobe or A DWade. Hell he never even played with someone as good as Penny. Do some research on basketball and spacing the floor before making such a silly comment.
And please don't say Drexler as he was already in his 12th year in the league and slowed down tremendously

If it wasn't for Ralph's injuries the Lakers never go to the finals in 87, 88, 89 and 91. Not to mention Lewis Lloyd and Mitchell Wiggins drug issues. Clyde was not gonna put up the numbers he did in 95 in Portland without Dream spreading the floor once the trade happened. The Rockets organization screwed Dream 87-92 not getting a better roster around him, hence why he almost left. And no it was not just his contract that was an issue. The two most competitive guys of that generation were MJ and Dream. Bulls just got lucky with the Pippen pick.