thread title stolen from series thread


Don't call it the Big 3
quick stats glance:

Dwyane Wade 2013 averages 14/4 in the playoffs
Delonte West 2009 averaged 14/4
Mo Williams 2009 averaged 16/4 and in 2010 16/5

Chris Bosh 2013 averages 12/6
Zydrunas Ilgauskas 2009 averaged 11/8
37 year old Shaq 2010 averaged 12/7

From Twitter (saw the tweet posted on another board):

@tomhaberstroh
LeBron James has 171 points in this series. Dwyane
Wade and Chris Bosh combined? 155.

Not terribly relevant to the point you're trying to make, just pointing out that LeBron is backpacking.

[This message has been edited by AggieVictor10 (edited 6/1/2013 10:37p).]

Ahh geez. Not this **** again

Lebron trying to join Duncan and Hakeem as only players to win a title with no one else scoring 15ppg /random obscure stat stolen from Guitarsoup

No. Not even close.

/Eot

It's got to suck have to put the team on your back and if you lose it's still your fault.

Bosh and Wade are playing extremely poorly. That being said, Miami is still most likely going to win the championship and go down as an undisputed top 10 team of all time.

did any of those Cleveland teams win 67 games (or whatever is was) during the season like Miami just did?

Bose, have you even watched this heat team? San Antonio has just as good a shot at beating them as they do of beating the spurs.

Chico, didn't he win 61 games in Cleveland in 08?

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did any of those Cleveland teams win 67 games (or whatever is was) during the season like Miami just did?

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lebrons 2009 Cleveland team was 66-16 and cruised through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs as the favorite to win the title and was one of the all-time great regular season teams by the stats. Similar to how his 2013 Miami team was 66-16 and cruised through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs as the title favorite with a ceiling of becoming one of the all-time great teams.

[This message has been edited by Internetfan02 (edited 6/2/2013 6:22p).]

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did any of those Cleveland teams win 67 games (or whatever is was) during the season like Miami just did?

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Where you being serious with this question? With just a little bit of research you would know the answer to this question.

Cleveland had the best record in the league going into the 2009 and 2010 playoffs.

Now entering the Lebro makes his teammates worse conversation. And now its all stars

ummmm no lol

I agree with Sher on the 'no lol'.

Could we be seeing players who recognize Lebron is way better than they are and so they just start mailing it in because they know he'll pick up the slack? Or has D-Wade and Bosh just regressed so much this past month or so?

All teams have role players who go through slumps at some point (see Bonner, Matt and Neal, Gary) and the stars need to get the team through those parts. What happens when the stars are the ones who slump?

I didn't see Game 6 so I don't know for certain, but was Miami's defense just bad or was their offense just that much worse? SportsCenter was showing Wade's missed layups and I guess there wasn't anything to show of Bosh.

Miami has definitely regressed from the regular season. They looked unstoppable during that streak.

Hoping that Miami peaked at the wrong time and los eSpurs are peaking now.

Steve Kerr:

Regardless of what happens this year I don't think Miami makes it back next year. With Rose back next year and the Pacers getting a little bit older. Then you factor in Miami's emotional toll these last few years. The last team to go to the final the last 4 years was the Celtics in the 80s. There's a reason that teams don't get there 4 straight years. There's a toll emotionally and physically. By next year they will be in a little bit of trouble.

You know sometimes people say to me 'gosh if only Jordan wouldn't have left you would have won 7 straight titles, 8 straight titles, whatever it was and I just laugh.
I wasn't there for the first 3 but after the second three we were absolutely running on fumes and I think the reason we had that great stretch for the second 3 was because Michael left the game recharged his battery and came back with avengence, to do it over and over and over like that years in a row, I think in todays era with so many games and so much pressure on today's media I think it's virtually impossible.

One interesting factoid is that Lebron's stats are down across the board compared to the '09 and '10 playoffs with the Cavs.

'09 he averaged 35.3-9.1-7.3 with 1.6 steals and .9 blocks
'10 he averaged 29.1-9.3-7.6 with 1.7 steals and 1.8 blocks

So far in '13 he's averaging 25.8-7.3-6.6 with 1.5 steals and .7 blocks

Kind of interesting how peoples' perceptions have changed, because up until last year everyone was talking about how Lebron couldn't get it done in the playoffs. This year, it's "Lebron is carrying this team but no one else will step up".

Maybe Wade and Bosh are making Lebron worse. When they aren't playing like stars, they still get touches and attempts, limiting Lebron's freedom to take over the game for 48 minutes or adjust the distribution to other guys who are hitting their shots.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 6/3/2013 11:49a).]

Bottom line is that no one can do it by themselves...even MJ had Pippen for every championship he won. Lebron is playing fantastic basketball, but when all you have to do is double down on him and let Bosh miss 15 foot jumpers, or have Wade try and be Flash again, but fall short significantly, one man can't win in this stage of the playoffs...

The Heat have definitely regressed quickly. A couple weeks ago I thought nobody had a chance against them. Now I think they are extremely vulnerable. Bosh never really was a superstar IMO.

I think Wade has had the biggest drop-off.

Should be fun to watch tonight. I hope it's close in the final minute.

Holy shiit that '09 stat line by Lebron is unreal

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The Heat have definitely regressed quickly. A couple weeks ago I thought nobody had a chance against them. Now I think they are extremely vulnerable. Bosh never really was a superstar IMO.

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Agreed...they should've signed Boozer instead in the offseason class...while I don't think he's worth the money he's making either, he'd at least know his role as a rebounder and low post scorer and not get confused into thinking he's a 3 point shooter at 6'11.

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I think Wade has had the biggest drop-off.

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Of course he did becuase he was the best player on the team not named Lebron. He has further to fall from being a top 5-10 player in the league to where he is now...

I have always maintained that Bosh was a prime example of the "good stats on a bad team" fallacy. He's not great, he was just in a situation where opponents didn't mind if he knocked down a bunch of jump shots in a loss.

I'm not sure I would give anyone that lets them self get dunked on by BMED credit as a good player.

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AgAllStar91
posted 1:56p, 06/03/13



Holy shiit that '09 stat line by Lebron is unreal

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His playoff stats have always been incredible. If the Heat make the Finals, he will almost certainly get to 9th in all time playoff points, pass Jordan for 33rd in rebounds, pass Mark Jackson for 15th in assists, Byron Scott for 17th in steals, and move to 46th in blocks. He's 28 years old.

per game averages:

PPG: 5th, trailing Durant by half a point.
RPG: 59th
APG: 19th
SPG: 18th
BPG: 47th
PER: 3rd, trailing Jordan and George Mikan of all people.

Lebron's 09 stats were better than Jordan 90 as the greatest ever

Great BS Report today where they talked all about this issue. Windhorst came out guns blazing saying this is Bosh's final chance to prove he will stay on the team and Lebron needs to let his teammates help him instead of reverting to Cleveland style play.

Zach Lowe blamed massive regressions more on injuries but Simmons was having none of it

BS report closes by comparing the 13 Heat to the Nash/SSOL Suns as being great for the regular season but not built for the playoffs due to losing the interior battle. Windhorst says Riley and Spoelstra are at odds with how the team should be built - Spoelstra emphasized small ball this year and Riley always emphasized rebounding superiority.

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Lebron needs to let his teammates help him instead of reverting to Cleveland style play.

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His teammates are helping him hitch up the boat and load the truck. In Miami losses, Bosh is 8-28 (29%) and Wade is 14-40 (35%). That is a combined 22.6 attempts per game at 32%. In wins, they are a combined 21.6 attempts per game at 54%.

James is 32-59 (19.6 attempts per game) for 54% in losses. In wins, he is 33-67 (22.3 attempts per game) for 49%. Maybe Lebron needs to take more shots, not less.


Lebron is 8th in attempts per game in the 2013 playoffs.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 6/3/2013 4:50p).]

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James is 32-59 (19.6 attempts per game) for 54% in losses. In wins, he is 33-67 (22.3 attempts per game) for 49%. Maybe Lebron needs to take more shots, not less.

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Thats a good debate. Windhorst said based on the locker room interviews he is picking up this divide between Wade and Lebron where Wade is trying to subtly blame Lebron for not getting him involved. Will be fascinating to watch.

Well, why wouldn't Lebron want to involve a guy whose favorite play is to dribble around and then give up on the possession with a blanketed fade way?

Hilarious if there is a locker room rift. Lebron is carrying the team. The losses are all on DwYane.

Wade stepped up. Ray Allen gave Lebron more clutch shooting than what Boobie Gibson gave him in 09. Team defense was back to it's elite level. The whole team crashed the boards, led by Wade.

Miami has a level of defense that few teams I've seen can match. They can't maintain that effort for very long, but it's impressive to watch. Other than that, I'm not sure they are much better than the Cavs were. Even in game 7, the Pacers had a number of open looks bounce in and out when they were still in striking distance in the second half.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 6/4/2013 9:08a).]