Ussf is dumb
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Last: 2 yr ago by littlebitofhifi
This is so stupid. Give money to the players that did nothing to earn it.
Good way to start a divisive confrontation. Morons
Is our 'leadership' really trying to put the public pressure on the men to take less money? The USSF is loaded with some morons at the top.
I'd be willing to wager that I'm easily one of the libtardiest libtards on this board, but I still don't get this issue at all.
If this was about 98% of the jobs out there that only involve your brain, I'm absolutely on board with equal pay for equal work. In fact, I'd argue strongly that due to the obstacles they have to overcome to get there, most female managers and employees I've worked with are better than their male counterparts.
But this situation literally isn't equal work. Boys HS teams have whipped female national teams. It's a shame that testosterone creates such a physical advantage, but these are biological facts that simply can't be overcome.
I genuinely hope that someday in the future, our society can be entertained by competitions that aren't based primarily on physical prowess and therefore women have an equal footing to men. But until that day, I firmly believe that it is self-defeating for feminist causes to pretend that the physical differences don't exist. Bubba Redneck who thinks women belong in the kitchen knows for a fact that the physical difference exists… if you pretend it doesn't, he's gonna think you're full of crap and that'll make him think he's right about his opinion on a woman's ability to be a manager/engineer/etc.
If this was about 98% of the jobs out there that only involve your brain, I'm absolutely on board with equal pay for equal work. In fact, I'd argue strongly that due to the obstacles they have to overcome to get there, most female managers and employees I've worked with are better than their male counterparts.
But this situation literally isn't equal work. Boys HS teams have whipped female national teams. It's a shame that testosterone creates such a physical advantage, but these are biological facts that simply can't be overcome.
I genuinely hope that someday in the future, our society can be entertained by competitions that aren't based primarily on physical prowess and therefore women have an equal footing to men. But until that day, I firmly believe that it is self-defeating for feminist causes to pretend that the physical differences don't exist. Bubba Redneck who thinks women belong in the kitchen knows for a fact that the physical difference exists… if you pretend it doesn't, he's gonna think you're full of crap and that'll make him think he's right about his opinion on a woman's ability to be a manager/engineer/etc.
It's not even that.
The women agreed to less money for wins in return for more guaranteed money and benefits.
Now they're saying they want the same money for wins as the men and keep the guaranteed pay anx benefits.
And as a recruiter for over 25 years, if women made less money that's all they'd hire.
The women agreed to less money for wins in return for more guaranteed money and benefits.
Now they're saying they want the same money for wins as the men and keep the guaranteed pay anx benefits.
And as a recruiter for over 25 years, if women made less money that's all they'd hire.
Also the womens world cup just factually generates less revenue the mens world cup. Thats how the world works, if you dont generate as much money, you get paid less.
You must work for some amazingly egalitarian organizations. The most talented engineer in my last company was a woman. She left after they promoted the COO's drinking buddy instead of her.Kevin the 3-legged dog said:
It's not even that.
The women agreed to less money for wins in return for more guaranteed money and benefits.
Now they're saying they want the same money for wins as the men and keep the guaranteed pay anx benefits.
And as a recruiter for over 25 years, if women made less money that's all they'd hire.
To me, it doesn't matter what was agreed before. Folks are entitled to renegotiate contracts if their current deal doesn't reflect their value. But that's clearly not the case here.
My point is essentially the same as Pat's… the market says it's not the same level of work because the market prefers the higher level of quality in the men's game.
Not to derail but anecdotal stories like your perpetuate the equal pay myth. A COO's buddy being promoted over someone is a common thing usually it has nothing to do with gender (or race etc). I have been on multiple technical promotion committees and never seen any bias other than manager pushing their team. In every tech company I have worked for the female engineers tend to be paid better especially the good ones.deadbq03 said:You must work for some amazingly egalitarian organizations. The most talented engineer in my last company was a woman. She left after they promoted the COO's drinking buddy instead of her.Kevin the 3-legged dog said:
It's not even that.
The women agreed to less money for wins in return for more guaranteed money and benefits.
Now they're saying they want the same money for wins as the men and keep the guaranteed pay anx benefits.
And as a recruiter for over 25 years, if women made less money that's all they'd hire.
To me, it doesn't matter what was agreed before. Folks are entitled to renegotiate contracts if their current deal doesn't reflect their value. But that's clearly not the case here.
My point is essentially the same as Pat's… the market says it's not the same level of work because the market prefers the higher level of quality in the men's game.
Yeah, selling a slower, less talented, less exciting, more predictable version of a sport is a tough spot for any women's sport.
No worries on the derail. I had already derailed with my comments. We clearly disagree and this isn't the place to continue that discussion… my first post genuinely wasn't trying to convince anyone on the broader issue. It was aimed at people on here who might also care about equality and misguidedly think that these USWNT issues are in any way related. They're not. In fact I think they do more harm than good.
I shouldn't have bothered with the first paragraph of my 2nd post… again, this isn't the place to try to make that point, so I apologize.
I shouldn't have bothered with the first paragraph of my 2nd post… again, this isn't the place to try to make that point, so I apologize.
If they get paid more money it won't exactly solve a problem the WNT has and it's a big problem. Because their primary pay and benefits are derived from being on the WNT, the players aren't really competing for the spots. It's not until someone "retires" that a spot opens. As a result the age goes up and the team stagnates. Arguably higher pay would make it less likely that aging players would rotate out.
Mathguy64 said:
If they get paid more money it won't exactly solve a problem the WNT has and it's a big problem. Because their primary pay and benefits are derived from being on the WNT, the players aren't really competing for the spots. It's not until someone "retires" that a spot opens. As a result the age goes up and the team stagnates. Arguably higher pay would make it less likely that aging players would rotate out.
Amen
I thought the new coach may change things but nope
It's not the coach. It's the contract USSF has with the WNT players.
Agreed not the board to debate. To bad we could not have a sane debate on the politics boarddeadbq03 said:
No worries on the derail. I had already derailed with my comments. We clearly disagree and this isn't the place to continue that discussion… my first post genuinely wasn't trying to convince anyone on the broader issue. It was aimed at people on here who might also care about equality and misguidedly think that these USWNT issues are in any way related. They're not. In fact I think they do more harm than good.
I shouldn't have bothered with the first paragraph of my 2nd post… again, this isn't the place to try to make that point, so I apologize.
We've known US Soccer was dumb and/or misguided for a while now. And while the women's team has a certain argument with regards to getting paid more, they need to also consider the economic realities of the situation and reconcile that.
That being said, I have zero belief the OP actually has legitimate interest in the topic.
That being said, I have zero belief the OP actually has legitimate interest in the topic.
You'd be wrong. I've followed this topic and the absurdity of the uswnt's fight since the beginning.
I must have been confused by your dozen f16 comments on the same topic.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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sort of my "USWNT = Disney on ice" theory. If you get one of the 30 coveted spots that comes with salary, benefits, bonuses, and all of the trappings it becomes your life's work to maintain that spot as a "star" and a selling point. Making it more lucrative will simply pour fuel onto the fire.Mathguy64 said:
If they get paid more money it won't exactly solve a problem the WNT has and it's a big problem. Because their primary pay and benefits are derived from being on the WNT, the players aren't really competing for the spots. It's not until someone "retires" that a spot opens. As a result the age goes up and the team stagnates. Arguably higher pay would make it less likely that aging players would rotate out.
For the men that are simply pay-to-play, national team duty is an honor (and potentially lucrative if it leads to a work permit or better contract) there is little value in keeping aging talent on the roster since the highest value is achieved via winning.
No problem. It's both a political topic and a soccer topic.
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from a purely litigation standpoint, I read the summary judgement order from the federal court that told the USWNT to pound sand. Sort of recall that judge was center-center-right California W. appointee that basically said that when you run the numbers, it's a wash and you got offered the same deal as the men if you wanted.Agthatbuilds said:
No problem. It's both a political topic and a soccer topic.
This thread calls out what the USWNT really wants: FIFA to hand them a cut of their most valuable asset just because (and more specifically because of American sex discrimination law might give them a bit of leverage).
But does the aging talent argument kind of fall apart when the players getting it done are the aging talent?
I don't disagree that there's some systemic issues here, but Press and Rapinoe (as one recent example) scored all 4 goals in the bronze medal match. But that's also probably a different and more involved discussion.
I don't disagree that there's some systemic issues here, but Press and Rapinoe (as one recent example) scored all 4 goals in the bronze medal match. But that's also probably a different and more involved discussion.
If I mischaracterized you I apologize, but there's a long history of f16 posters "visiting" other boards and posting inflammatory topics they have no actual interest in. Given your lack of other posts here I assumed that was the case, if not my bad.
I posted here much more frequently under my perma'ed user name.
Makes sense.
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I get your point. And it's certainly valid on multiple fronts. Those players really are good and they win. Being good and playing together for more than a decade certainly helps.
But it's hard to test. Would a squad with an average age in the mid 20s have blasted away anyone that moved in the olympics for an easy gold instead of the bronze we settled for? Who knows. They might have struggled to a couple of points in the group stage and gone home early.
Point is that the most talented and effective 11 on the field is what you're looking for and you don't know who they are. On the women's side, they're experienced and have worked together for ages.
On the men's side, you have to piece something together with what you have. High talent countries even go in cycles (hello, 2006 winners Italy who didn't go to 2018 Russia) but they're more likely to put 11 guys out there that can win than a 37 year old that can sell tickets and kits.
On the balance, it's a complicated question with a simple answer: there's a lot of money out there and a lot of people that think they're entitled to more of it.
But it's hard to test. Would a squad with an average age in the mid 20s have blasted away anyone that moved in the olympics for an easy gold instead of the bronze we settled for? Who knows. They might have struggled to a couple of points in the group stage and gone home early.
Point is that the most talented and effective 11 on the field is what you're looking for and you don't know who they are. On the women's side, they're experienced and have worked together for ages.
On the men's side, you have to piece something together with what you have. High talent countries even go in cycles (hello, 2006 winners Italy who didn't go to 2018 Russia) but they're more likely to put 11 guys out there that can win than a 37 year old that can sell tickets and kits.
On the balance, it's a complicated question with a simple answer: there's a lot of money out there and a lot of people that think they're entitled to more of it.
If the USWNT wants the money for winning the men's World Cup, go win it.
My coworkers husband who plays for Detroit Cuty FC doesn demand the same salary as Christian Pulisic.
My coworkers husband who plays for Detroit Cuty FC doesn demand the same salary as Christian Pulisic.
deadbq03 said:
I'd be willing to wager that I'm easily one of the libtardiest libtards on this board, but I still don't get this issue at all.
If this was about 98% of the jobs out there that only involve your brain, I'm absolutely on board with equal pay for equal work. In fact, I'd argue strongly that due to the obstacles they have to overcome to get there, most female managers and employees I've worked with are better than their male counterparts.
But this situation literally isn't equal work. Boys HS teams have whipped female national teams. It's a shame that testosterone creates such a physical advantage, but these are biological facts that simply can't be overcome.
I genuinely hope that someday in the future, our society can be entertained by competitions that aren't based primarily on physical prowess and therefore women have an equal footing to men. But until that day, I firmly believe that it is self-defeating for feminist causes to pretend that the physical differences don't exist. Bubba Redneck who thinks women belong in the kitchen knows for a fact that the physical difference exists… if you pretend it doesn't, he's gonna think you're full of crap and that'll make him think he's right about his opinion on a woman's ability to be a manager/engineer/etc.
What in world would below be? Chess? Watching people play video games?
" I genuinely hope that someday in the future, our society can be entertained by competitions that aren't based primarily on physical prowess and therefore women have an equal footing to men. "
Man I have no idea. Whatever it is, I'd be shocked if it happens in our lifetime.
Biology is your biggest competition
Update: https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usaw/story/4475503/us-soccer-offers-menswomens-teams-identical-contract-proposals
It seems the ussf is willing to sacrifice the usmnt to the alter of progressive ideology and very illogical and shallow arguments by the uswnt
Quote:
The U.S. Soccer Federation announced on Tuesday that it has offered the respective players' unions for the U.S. women's national team and the U.S. men's side identical proposals for a new collective bargaining agreement.
Quote:
More critically, the USSF said in its statement that it will not agree to a CBA with either union that doesn't "take the important step of equalizing FIFA World Cup prize money." That issue has been a sticking point with players on the USWNT, 28 of which are currently engaged in a lawsuit alleging gender discrimination over violations of the Equal Pay Act.
Quote:
There is also skepticism about the USSF's motives in pushing for a single CBA. One source, who requested anonymity due to the sensitive state of the talks, stated that the FIFA bonus money issue was being "used as a weapon" against the men's union to make the USSF look like "the good guy."
"The way they want to solve the women's problem is not by increasing the women's income fairly," the source said. "It's by cutting [the men's CBA] down to the [women's] 2017 to 2021 deal numbers."
It seems the ussf is willing to sacrifice the usmnt to the alter of progressive ideology and very illogical and shallow arguments by the uswnt
liberal women. aka American women soccer are the worst.
nobody gives a **** about womens soccer and for them to want to get paid the exact same as the men is Ludacris. But, on the other hand I'd love to see this happen just to watch all the soccer teams go to **** evenmore than they already are.
nobody gives a **** about womens soccer and for them to want to get paid the exact same as the men is Ludacris. But, on the other hand I'd love to see this happen just to watch all the soccer teams go to **** evenmore than they already are.
I think this is USSF calling the USWNT union's bluff. "Okay, you want equal pay, here is what it looks like."
Problem is that all their guaranteed money would go away, and the payouts to the WSL. They don't really want equal pay to the men, because truth is they were doing well under the old agreement.
Problem is that all their guaranteed money would go away, and the payouts to the WSL. They don't really want equal pay to the men, because truth is they were doing well under the old agreement.
I feel like this is the USSF wanting to bring more light to the fact that the WNT has a ridiculous contract in comparison to the men, and have no interest in sacrificing it.
It was wrong that they were being given lesser travel arrangements, and per diem, and things of that nature. That was rightfully made equal.
Once the men have gone through qualifying and the World Cup, the women wont be able to cherry pick viewing/revenue data to intentionally mislead people as well.
TLDR, both groups should get equal travel arrangements and quality of life while playing for the national team. Everything else should be based on what revenue their respective sports generate.
It was wrong that they were being given lesser travel arrangements, and per diem, and things of that nature. That was rightfully made equal.
Once the men have gone through qualifying and the World Cup, the women wont be able to cherry pick viewing/revenue data to intentionally mislead people as well.
TLDR, both groups should get equal travel arrangements and quality of life while playing for the national team. Everything else should be based on what revenue their respective sports generate.
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