Can someone explain in specifics how this change is going to benefit US Soccer? I am trying to brainstorm and so far I only see negatives. I've read the US statements but they are very general and don't seem to make sense. Obviously it's easier to manage when you only have to look at birth years but that's a lazy ass excuse.

Cons:
-Splitting up school friends
-Teams consist of 2 school grade levels
-When half are in grade 8 and half are in 9, what happens to club teams during the HS season? So they have to pull kids up from the younger teams to make numbers?
-What happens to those that turn 18 in the fall and their club teams?

Pros:
-I don't understand months and school years so it's easier to only look at the year
-Some other countries do it this way and the US is bad at Soccer so yeah
-???

The NTs are done by age (U-17, U-19, U-21, U -23) so it makes tracking those potential players easier. So ODP is organized that way as it feeds to the NT level.

On the other end, adult league is organized by ages in a lot of places. You have O30 (over 30) or O35. Its age not school year.

From the USSF perspective the pros outweighed the cons. And USSF was driving the bus when that decision was made.

candyland02 said:

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Can someone explain in specifics how this change is going to benefit US Soccer? I am trying to brainstorm and so far I only see negatives. I've read the US statements but they are very general and don't seem to make sense. Obviously it's easier to manage when you only have to look at birth years but that's a lazy ass excuse.

Cons:
-Splitting up school friends
-Teams consist of 2 school grade levels
-When half are in grade 8 and half are in 9, what happens to club teams during the HS season? So they have to pull kids up from the younger teams to make numbers?
-What happens to those that turn 18 in the fall and their club teams?

Pros:
-I don't understand months and school years so it's easier to only look at the year
-Some other countries do it this way and the US is bad at Soccer so yeah
-???

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I think every other country does it this way so it will get and keep the right groups together throughout their youth and improve US player pools for international competition.

Splitting up school friends is only going to slightly impact kids in these first few years. Many US clubs already implemented this when USSF recommended it over a year ago. My kid went through it last year and now he has a few classmates in his grade that play on teams a year younger than him and he's got teammates that are a grade above him at school. It does not seem to be a big deal. He's friends with all of them.

HS season and HS soccer is almost totally irrelevant nowadays. US development academy kids and thus the best players at the club, can't play for their HS. The kids that want to play in the short meaningless HS season for coaches far below their club coachs' caliber for fun or school pride can play with their grade/ JV, Varsity, etc. but for their club, they will play with their birth year - don't think it will be a big deal for them and don't think you have 8th graders having to bus over to practice with the 9th graders because of their birth year -- I think the schools will play with their grade and the club players likely won't practice with the school much; train with the club and play games with the school for fun/ school pride.

If I am reading correctly the only possible benefit is for male DA teams which don't allow HS Soccer and are on track for the national teams. The vast majority of players don't play for DA teams and my understanding is there is no HS rule on the girls side.

I don't understand your comment about bussing 8th graders. You will have Club teams with maybe half or so 8th and 9th graders. During the spring when the 9th graders play HS season, the the 8th graders will be short teammates on their club team.

candyland02 said:

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I don't understand your comment about bussing 8th graders. You will have Club teams with maybe half or so 8th and 9th graders. During the spring when the 9th graders play HS season, the the 8th graders will be short teammates on their club team.

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it's just aligning us with the rest of the world.

whoever plays for their school will play both. the club team won't be short players.

i'm pretty sure all girls are going by birth year now too

I'm not sure you understand my 8th/9th grade question.

8th/9th graders born on the same year are on the same club team. The 9th graders will, the vast majority of the time, play for the HS team in the spring. So what happens to the club team? My understanding is the HS players don't play games with club during the spring season. So now the club team is short all the 9th graders in the spring.

candyland02 said:

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I'm not sure you understand my 8th/9th grade question.

8th/9th graders born on the same year are on the same club team. The 9th graders will, the vast majority of the time, play for the HS team in the spring. So what happens to the club team? My understanding is the HS players don't play games with club during the spring season. So now the club team is short all the 9th graders in the spring.

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1. i don't think vast majority of 9th grade soccer players play for their HS
2. the ones that do, will still play for the club. HS game typically on a weeknight. Club games and tournaments on weekends. might miss a training session or something for a HS game.
3. club is not short players.

candyland02 said:

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I'm not sure you understand my 8th/9th grade question.

8th/9th graders born on the same year are on the same club team. The 9th graders will, the vast majority of the time, play for the HS team in the spring. So what happens to the club team? My understanding is the HS players don't play games with club during the spring season. So now the club team is short all the 9th graders in the spring.

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I think that is not the case. Tons of kids play HS and club ball simultaneously. Club games are weekends, HS games are once or twice a week and during the week.

There are a group of club players (DA level) that cannot play HS ball.

candyland02 said:

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I'm not sure you understand my 8th/9th grade question.

8th/9th graders born on the same year are on the same club team. The 9th graders will, the vast majority of the time, play for the HS team in the spring. So what happens to the club team? My understanding is the HS players don't play games with club during the spring season. So now the club team is short all the 9th graders in the spring.

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There's never a scenario where high school is picked over club..some high end clubs won't let you play high school .

So part of the high school and club overlap in the spring, but the club isn't shortened

No one is picking HS over club. The leagues don't schedule games until after HS season ends. That's what I'm seeing through the Houston based major clubs, at least on the girls side. Do you have recent experience to the contrary?

oh no said:

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candyland02 said:

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I Can someone explain in specifics how this change is going to benefit US Soccer? I am trying to brainstorm and so far I only see negatives. I've read the US statements but they are very general and don't seem to make sense. Obviously it's easier to manage when you only have to look at birth years but that's a lazy ass excuse.

Cons:
-Splitting up school friends
-Teams consist of 2 school grade levels
-When half are in grade 8 and half are in 9, what happens to club teams during the HS season? So they have to pull kids up from the younger teams to make numbers?
-What happens to those that turn 18 in the fall and their club teams?

Pros:
-I don't understand months and school years so it's easier to only look at the year
-Some other countries do it this way and the US is bad at Soccer so yeah
-???

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I think every other country does it this way so it will get and keep the right groups together throughout their youth and improve US player pools for international competition.

Splitting up school friends is only going to slightly impact kids in these first few years. Many US clubs already implemented this when USSF recommended it over a year ago. My kid went through it last year and now he has a few classmates in his grade that play on teams a year younger than him and he's got teammates that are a grade above him at school. It does not seem to be a big deal. He's friends with all of them.

HS season and HS soccer is almost totally irrelevant nowadays. US development academy kids and thus the best players at the club, can't play for their HS. The kids that want to play in the short meaningless HS season for coaches far below their club coachs' caliber for fun or school pride can play with their grade/ JV, Varsity, etc. but for their club, they will play with their birth year - don't think it will be a big deal for them and don't think you have 8th graders having to bus over to practice with the 9th graders because of their birth year -- I think the schools will play with their grade and the club players likely won't practice with the school much; train with the club and play games with the school for fun/ school pride.

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Most moronic post of the month

oh no said:

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1. i don't think vast majority of 9th grade soccer players play for their HS
2. the ones that do, will still play for the club. HS game typically on a weeknight. Club games and tournaments on weekends. might miss a training session or something for a HS game.
3. club is not short players.

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A close second

candyland02 said:

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I don't believe that is accurate except for the highest, ODP, level. My understanding is most leagues do a shortened season which starts once HS season ends.

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This is what's done in Dallas in my experience. My U15 daughter has 13 games in fall, ending first week of November, then only 5 games in spring and they start beginning of April. That won't interfere with high school ball at all.

OregonAggie said:

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candyland02 said:

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I don't believe that is accurate except for the highest, ODP, level. My understanding is most leagues do a shortened season which starts once HS season ends.

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This is what's done in Dallas in my experience. My U15 daughter has 13 games in fall, ending first week of November, then only 5 games in spring and they start beginning of April. That won't interfere with high school ball at all.

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That's exactly what I thought. So what do the clubs teams do with the older(fall birthday) 8th graders that have half their teammates playing HS?

We're going to play indoor, futsal, and probably a tournament or two. Scrimmages with other U15 teams that have available players as well.

I'm not sure what other teams do but this is our plan.

Club teams still practice; they just don't have league games. I've never heard any parent complaining about it being an issue; a little weird about the long break in the league; but not an issue.

Middle School football on the other hand is a big disruption. My U13 on Tuesday nights is lucky to have 8 teammates for practice because so many have middle school football games during the week.

is it just for girls that the clubs have a short spring season? I don't think that's the case at all for the competitive leagues that boys in all the big clubs in the Houston area compete in (USCTX or STYSA). I'm pretty sure they have full spring and fall seasons. If a kid wants to play for his school, he might miss some club training sessions in the spring to play a weeknight game for the school, but it's the school season that is short; not the club league season. maybe girls is an entirely different thing where the clubs cater to the schools rather than the other way around.

It's new so you wouldn't have heard much yet. As Oregon posted they are having to find other things for the older 8th graders to do. To me that is an issue. We don't have a real indoor option where I am so it will be interesting to see how our local clubs deal with it.

I just think the benefit of the change is so extremely small that overall it does more harm than good. The very top elite are already going to be identified and often playing up in age. High school and College both go by school year obviously. I really don't see how going to birth year helps identify the top elite except for those that are bad at math and calculating age.

I can only confirm that both leagues you mentioned are shortened on the girls side.

birth year is new and it's just getting us aligned with the rest of the world. as far as harm vs good, yeah, the good is that the elite players will grow up playing with the same kids that would be in their national pool as well as when our clubs participate in international tournaments here or abroad. the harm only seems to be splitting up teams across two grades in school. Like i said, it hasn't seemed to be an issue last year or this year for my kid; since he's a fall birthday, some former teammates in his grade are a year lower at the club and some kids a grade above him at school are now his teammates, but he knows and is friends with more kids at the school now... there was only a couple of kids at his school in the top pool that he would know anyway... and in a few years if he and his buddies are not in DA and want to play for the school, my understanding from talking to other parents is that they would just skip some midweek training sessions to go play those school games.

what i didn't know is that girls competitive club leagues shorten their spring seasons to cater to schools. i'm pretty sure that's not the case for boys.

Many boys teams play tournaments in the Spring and then play in Cup play starting in April. They definitely train in the Spring

Along with the 8th grade issue(for girls at least), what about the fall birthday senior club year(for both genders)? Half of their team just graduated and is off to college. By that time you usually have less participants as well due to attrition. So now those with fall birthdays are extremely limited in club options.

candyland02 said:

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No one is picking HS over club. The leagues don't schedule games until after HS season ends. That's what I'm seeing through the Houston based major clubs, at least on the girls side. Do you have recent experience to the contrary?

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Mine is DFW, can't speak for Houston. He runs through May, so if that's true it's pretty foolish

Quote:

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what i didn't know is that girls competitive club leagues shorten their spring seasons to cater to schools. i'm pretty sure that's not the case for boys.

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It's the case for boys in Kansas and Missouri and a lot of other state. During the fall, there is no club at all for HS aged kids. They start after the HS season ends (except for the academy players, they play club year round).

For 8th graders, they usually have enough to consolidate to one or two teams for the HS season, then split up to 3 or 4 teams after HS season ends. It's really not a big deal.

Personally I like it a lot more. My son was always the youngest player on the field and by late spring the size/speed difference between kid his age and a teen 11 months older was very apparent.

I would agree that clubs in the middle of Houston or Dallas can likely consolidate. But across the country there are numerous smaller clubs that cannot without significant travel. The take im seeing is that if it doesn't affect you then it's no big deal.

Most clubs I've seen/heard about seem to have plenty of players. But I can see that a smaller club in a small town could have problems. I would expect they can work something out with other clubs in town to figure out a way to get their 8th graders together for a short season to bridge the 9th grade HS season.

candyland02 said:

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Along with the 8th grade issue(for girls at least), what about the fall birthday senior club year(for both genders)? Half of their team just graduated and is off to college. By that time you usually have less participants as well due to attrition. So now those with fall birthdays are extremely limited in club options.

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Maybe those clubs facing this issue were not pro-active two years ago when USSF first announced the mandated change. If that's the case with your kid's club, you might ask club leadership what they are doing to address it.

I can see where in smaller markets with limited club options a U19 team could lose rostered players to graduation as you do have 18-year old college freshmen. But, that drop off the roster should have been anticipated. In smaller markets with fewer clubs/fewer players, the answer may end up being adding some U18s to the U19 roster until players can be added to the club to close the gap. Again, though, you should talk to the appropriate club personnel and ask what the club is doing to fill the roster. If the club can't fill a U19 roster then you may have to find a club that can, in a worst-case scenario.

As far as school soccer is concerned, the majority of kids that play at higher levels are committed to their clubs before their school teams. 95% of soccer players who have a shot a playing at the college level are going to be scouted through their club teams, not high school, and most of them know this. Once a player reaches DA, they will play in the DA League and most likely will no longer play HS soccer.

Your post just highlights how shortsighted this decision was. It may benefit 1% of all players, but creates significant more work on clubs to fill short seasons for fall birthday 8th graders and seniors. I don't think your solutions are "no big deal". I think it's a waste of time for everyone to deal with.

I'm sure we will make due when the time comes. I just don't think the decision makers at US Soccer really thought this one through on all fronts.

carl spacklers hat said:

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The decision=makers at USSF don't care about high school and middle school soccer. HTH
Maybe its difficult to grasp because so much of a kid's success in the Big 3 sports DOES come through schools/UIL but the path for soccer players is through their clubs, not their schools.

Lifted verbatim from an invitation my kid received to a U.S. Soccer Training Center:

As the National Governing Body of soccer in the United States, and under the auspices of the United States Olympic Committee, we are empowered and charged with developing the teams that represent the united States in all international competitions such as the Olympics and World Cup. The Training Center Program is an integral part of this process.

USSF's focus is definitely on the club side, not the school/UIL side.

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And as fun as it was to play in state tournament in high school, most of the regular season is a couple good teams destroying bad teams..and some of.the bad.teams just filled with Meatheads looking to injure the other team

I also don't think the break is primarily due to.school, but that playing conditions in dec-feb and part of March are really poor in most of the US

From USYSA:

The change in player registration is America going back to what we did on this account in the 1960s, '70s and into the '80s. Indeed, the US Youth Soccer Olympic Development Program has grouped players by birth year since its inception in 1977. Many club teams will benefit from the change when they travel overseas to play, in that they will no longer have to play up in order to be in the proper age group. The same is true for foreign teams coming to play here. The objective simply is to align with international standards and the Youth National Team program.

Indeed, until 1983, all youth soccer teams in the United States were grouped by birth year. America is simply reverting to that registration process. The back story is that in the early 1980s, FIFA switched from birth year to school year. The U.S., like all members of FIFA, did the same. Within two years, FIFA changed back to birth year. But at that time, having just made a massive change, the U.S. declined to shift along with the other members of FIFA. U.S. Soccer has made the decision to once again align American soccer with the rest of the world. These decisions are made collectively with U.S. Soccer's technical staff and approved by their Board of Directors.

These initiatives also included collaboration with various U.S. Soccer members in the youth sector. The decision was made by the U.S. Soccer board of directors and technical committee to implement the change to birth year for player registration over a two-year period. I wasn't directly involved in the change in the early 1980s from calendar year to school year for player registration, but perhaps a similar immediate modification approach was taken then too.

PatAg said:

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I also don't think the break is primarily due to.school, but that playing conditions in dec-feb and part of March are really poor in most of the US

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No, the break or shortened club season is only for HS aged divisions as many here have confirmed.