Then why does argentina have to pull a draw out of their arse against Bolivia?

and against the US...

and how many WC goals does he have?!?!

just a thought, maybe because messi is only 1/11th of the argentenian team?

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just a thought, maybe because messi is only 1/11th of the argentenian team?

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Technical Tim

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just a thought, maybe because messi is only 1/11th of the argentenian team?

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That didn't phase Maradona one bit.

Yea he is 1/11th of a team that also has Aguero, Tevez, Cambiasso, Lavezzi, Mascherano, Zanetti, Di Maria, Insua, Pastore, Otamendi, Milito, Higuain, Gago, Burdisso, Garay, the other Zanetti. I mean come on that team is stacked. Messi is great. An absolutely outstanding playr but his lack of form in international play drops him down a few notches compared to other great all-time players

And against Bolivia. Messi is an incredible player but not the best ever.

The criticism is a little unfair. I think most will acknowledge that Argentina has a great team. Its not just messi, none of them are playing well and it shouldnt be all on him. Messi has never been a dominant personality and Argentina expects him to be one. I dont think they have good leadership, they need a manager who has a winning personality AND good tactical sense. They also need a more offensively inclined central midfielder, I think that was supposed to be Banega, but he was awful. Messi frequently came back well behind the halfway line to collect the ball, that's not really what you want...

It depends on the criticism. As long as Messi struggles (relatively of course) with the national team, then the Maradona vs Messi debate will at worst always be a legitimate one. Messi has performed much better at the club level than Maradona did (though it was a different animal in the 80s) and Maradona has performed much better for Argentina. It was literally Maradona and 10 scrubs in '86. I'm not saying that Messi has to do that but he at least has to win a World Cup and play well while doing it in order to be a clear favorite over Maradona, IMO.

Maradona has outplayed Messi on national stage. But he is still a young man. Plenty of chances for Messi and Argentina.

I don't know where you got your info about 1986 squad. But it's erroneous. Maradona was clearly best player in world. His teammates were world class. Every offensive player was a stud. They were frightening. A couple of violent and damned good fullbacks on that team. They might have been overshadowed by Maradona's brilliance but they shouldn't be underestimated.

Messi + Iniesta + Xavi >>>>>>>>>>>>> Messi + Anyone else

It's tough to say. You have to remember that the other players Messi is playing against these days are fitter and stronger overall compared to the players in the 80s. The training, diets, etc etc has created far superior athletes. It's a tough call.

They are/were both amazing players. think you can leave it at that.

If Messi wins a WC he will be the best ever. He's already done way more at the club level than Maradona. People just have this fixation with championships for someone to be the best.

It's like all those people out there who now realize Dirk Nowitzki is a great player because he won the NBA championship. While most everyone in Dallas has known that Dirk has been this good for years.

He has done way more at the club level because he plays for possibly the greatest club team of all time. Does he help make them great? Of course but he is a shockingly different player when he doesn't have Xavi and Iniesta feeding him the ball. And at his club defenses also have to account for Villa, Pedro, Dani Alves and others. The Barcelona team takes so much pressure off of Messi.

More games with Barc than Arg !

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Messi + Iniesta + Xavi

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this is literally unfair

i tried to name my kid Xavi but the wifey wouldnt go for it

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He has done way more at the club level because he plays for possibly the greatest club team of all time.

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So he's the best player on the best club team of all time...hmm...

Maradona won a series a at Napoli. For god sakes there is a shrine to him in the streets of Napoli. And he did it coked out of his mind. Anyone that claims Maradona was not a good club player does not know much about his career. The guy wad nails.

I don't know if anyone is saying he "was not a good" player with his clubs, just that Messi's done a lot more, and while I wasn't around at the time to see Maradona, I would agree with that. Messi's dominating the best the world can offer year after year.

And I don't think it's fair to discount Messi's achievements because he's not doing it stoned out of his mind. The drugs, the fights, and all that stuff was just as much a part of the player that was Diego Maradona as anything else.


Messi needs to be more consistent with the national side. Until then, he's got no claim as the best ever. He did it as a youth (U-20 WC and a Gold Medal), still has time to do it on the senior level.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 7/4/2011 10:47p).]

Wasn't really taking away from Messi because he is not a coke head. I just meant to say that Maradona carried Naples to greatness and he did it snorting enough coke to kill a small elephant.

For those that only know about Maradona from his days with the Argentina national team I urge ya'll to research his career. The guy is a legend in Naples. Barcelona set a then world transfer record in order to get him. His club level accomplishments are impressive.

With that Pele is more distinguished than both.

Also, I think Messi is more a product of his central midfielders than many pundits would think. Nothing against Messi because when he moved forward against Manchester United in the CL finals a machine gun could not have moved him off the ball.