First team offense scored 3 pts in their spring game.

We will win in death valley on 9/3, no sweat.

Clemson lost WR Airese Currie to the NFL , TE Ben Hall (who scored a TD on us last year) to the NFL, and 3 year starter OL Cedric Johnson who also signed with an NFL team. The offense still returns Whitehurst and WR Chansi Stuckey. Two great players. However their offensive line is terrible and our DL should have a field day. Reggie Meriwether at RB is average at best. We had no problem containing him last year.

On defense things aren't much better for the Tigers. They lost an all ACC LB in Leroy Hill to the NFL. They lost DT Eric Coleman to the NFL and one of the better CB's/return man in the NCAA last year in Justin Miller (who had some big returns against us last year, he also went to NFL). They return DB Tye Hill, a good player but hardly the lockdown corner Tiger fans are claiming he is (last year he was forced to guard our 2nd and 3rd best WR's with Miller on the field and subsequently was burned a number of times including one where Jesse Woods easily gained separation and hauled in a 27 yarder from Reggie). Their defense lacks a push up front and given time we should be able to pick them apart regardless of whether or not we solve are running game woes.

our

We also don't have much as far as useful tape on their team since they have new coordinators. Plus I'll never guarantee a win after seeing the debacle in Waco

[This message has been edited by FTAClassof08 (edited 4/30/2005 5:34p).]

Hopefully Fran sent someone to tape their spring game.

Our coordinator postitions were a revolving door in RC's latter years and...well you can finish that statement.

When are we going to learn? We thought we would win in Utah last year and got a rude reception and ran into a hornet's nest. We thought we could just throw our helmets out on floyd Casey Stadium last year and Baylor dominated us on the line of scrimmage. We ARE not good enough YET to overlook anyone. We are going into Death Valley and will not have a lot of friends there. It is an 80000 seat stadium and they will be yelling just as much as Ags yell at Kyle. IF they get it rolling it can be a chore to play them there. They DID beat Miami last year so I would not overlook them. We should be favored, but not more than six points to three points in my opinion. AND remember they were favored to beat us at Kyle last year and remember what happened.

If I start a post about Clemson am I overlooking them?

As a Clemson fan, I like to see "reports" like this one, because the inferences clang on truth but are basically drawn on completely inadequate information.

I'd read ESPN's ACC report. It's a lot more accurate, IMHO...as a one of the few fans who actually got into some of Clemson's closed practices this Spring, I'd agree with it just a whole lot more...in all fact, they got a lot of things dead right.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2046735&num=2

That report offers no reasoning for why your OL will be a "strength". You lost a 3 year starter to the NFL and bring the rest of that raggedy group (that we dominated last year) back. The running game is non-existant and we put pressure on Whitehurst easily to force mistakes. He doesn't like getting rattled.

I will submit my thoughts on the game September 3 at around 10:30 PM

Buglerank you were reading my mind. Here we go
again, pass the koolaid. We just never learn
to stop believing our own hype.

Uh...wrong. Completely wrong.

For starters, Clemson was - for whatever reason - starting two walk-ons last year when there were better players behind them on the bench. (Basically, there was some line-shuffling when Brad Scott, who had once been FSU's line coach under Bobby Bowden, took the line over, and the line the first half of last year was BAD.) Those walk-ons (LT Jesse Pickens and C Tommy Sharpe) were barely 270 pounds. Just to add to the fun, RT Marion Dukes was playing in just his fourth-ever start...as a true sophomore, and the Ced Johnson you spoke so highly of was grimacing and huffing and puffing around the field at close to 40+ pounds past his ideal playing weight.

Stuff started changing, though, around midseason. The guy who replaced walk-on Jesse Pickens around midseason was a true freshman named Barry Richardson...who is 6'7", 356 pounds (those numbers are correct.) Once Richardson got his feet wet, the left side of the line (Whitehurst's blindside) solidified almost instantly...Richardson needs to improve his footwork and remains a little vulnerable to raw speed rushers...but he's impossible to bull-rush. The Sporting News named him a Freshman All-American. Marion Dukes also emerged as a serviceable right tackle...he'll play Sundays, though most likely as a guard. He's got pretty good size at 6'4", 315, but is a little linear and squat to be an ideal tackle. Again, Dukes (like Richardson) is tough to bull-rush...but raw speed, again, can get him around the edge.

LG Ced Johnson, who you're talking up, was OK. He was certainly immensely strong. But he was a 1-star-rated player coming out of high school (his only other offer was East Carolina), mostly because Big Ced usually tipped the scale at 350+ pounds...probably 30-40 pounds overweight, easily. Johnson's been replaced by Roman Fry (6'4", 295), who had started some games at left tackle (and played well, actually) in '03, but last year he wound up in the coaches' doghouse for whatever reason and they wouldn't play him...nobody's quite sure why. Roman Fry is WAY more athletic than Johnson, and almost as good in-line...and he's way more effective at pulling and blocking at the second level. No comparison; Fry's an upgrade over Ced Johnson.

The "C" position is WAY upgraded. Former walk-on Tommy Sharpe (who got obliterated by Tech's big DT's) is finally out...the coaches wouldn't bench him, probably, because he really bailed the team out in '02, when they literally had no one else, but he's been replaced now by a former 4-star-rated guy named Dustin Fry (no relation to Roman) who has the nickname "Biggie Fry" for the obvious reason: he's HUGE. Biggie is 6'2", 330, and has the best weightroom numbers on the team, and is nearly as wide as he is tall. He hits you clean, you're getting blown up. Right guard is filled by Nathan "Big Country" Bennett, who like Biggie and Roman is a redshirt junior...he's got very good size at 6'5", 310...he isn't quite as athletic as Roman Fry but he's pure mean. The three interior guys all have a bunch of experience now, and they're best friends, and very good chemistry, and it showed this Spring. (A lot of people wish this should have been the starting lineup LAST year, actually.)

By the way, the line this year is HUGE. It averages about 6'4", 320 pounds a man. The only two who were on the field for any stretch against A&M were RG Nathan Bennett and RT Marion Dukes...Dukes didn't do well (though not as bad as LT Jesse Pickens, who got owned by Mike Montgomery), but Bennett (alone among the linemen) graded out well.

You may have gotten a false read off Clemson's line last year.

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We will win in death valley on 9/3, no sweat.

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As an Aggie fan, I love to see such posts from Clemson fans. You lost a lot of talent from a team we destroyed a yr ago, we lost very little and have a much stronger team top to bottom. You have 2 new coordinators introducing new systems. We will feel good as 10 pt favorites. That being said, after getting smoked on opening night on the road last season by an underrated Utah team, we will be prepared and not be overconfident.

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You lost a 3 year starter to the NFL and bring the rest of that raggedy group (that we dominated last year) back.

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4 of 5 O-Line starters returning means a much improved situation for any college football team

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You may have gotten a false read off Clemson's line last year.

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So let me get this straight. You had an all world OL that Bowden chose to bench against A&M so he could play some spares? If you had an all world OL they would've played.

Also I wasn't glorifying Cedric Johnson. All I said was that he was a 3 year starter and was signed by an NFL team. Both are facts.

Your OL may have made the single greatest 1 year turnaround in the history of the NCAA however I will take heed from their performance against us last year (which included Cedric Johnston).

Even if your OL is all of the sudden faster, stronger, and better blockers, I guarantee you our DL has improved even more in the same time span.

See you in September.

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4 of 5 O-Line starters returning means a much improved situation for any college football team

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I disagree. This Tiger squad was porous. I don't care how much they've been lifting in the offseason we will still dominate in the trenches.

Hmm. You certainly know a lot about Clemson. Explain this, then: if Clemson's talent is so "inferior", how is it exactly the Tigers have beaten #3 FSU, #6 Tennessee (who absolutely obliterated you guys in the Cotton Bowl), and #9 Miami (in the Orange Bowl, no less!)...all in the last two years alone?

How is that?

I didn't say Clemson's linemen were "lifting", BTW. I am, however, saying you didn't see three of Clemson's best offensive linemen last year, for various reasons...some of them coaching-related. Clemson was not going to hold its own against a VERY formidable Aggie defensive front four with walk-ons at left tackle and center, but that's exactly what Clemson tried to do...with predictable results.

Clemson was also not going to control the Aggies' formidable running attack by sitting back in a passive zone, and stubbornly refusing to stack eight helmets in the box even while McNeal and Lewis were combining for almost 300 yards between the two of them...but that's exactly what Clemson's defensive coordinator tried to do.

There's a reason Clemson fired both coordinators last year, and you saw it on the field.

I hope you come back on 9/4

There's a difference between "debating" someone and "discussing" something with them.

In a debate, the other person is wrong no matter what. I don't really see the point in this.

In a discussion, you're out to exchange information. You're not doing this. You haven't backed off an inch, even though you obviously don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

If you were intellectually honest, you'd apply yourself to the problem: HOW is it that Clemson has beaten all these Top-10 teams, and yet looked so helpless against A&M?

You still haven't answered that question. Until you do, to most it might suggest that your equation simply doesn't balance.

HOLDENc

I think this is a pretty good evaluation of the game.

Please repost the one prior to last year's Baylor game so I can compare fairly.

jk.

That is why they play the games.

I expect a win as well.

I'm confident the Aggie d-line will dominate Clemson. The depth and ability we now have is very impressive. The position competition from player depth is a major benefit.

The dline depth will allow rotation throughout the game, keeping the dline fresh. This is difficult to match on the o-line by doing the same thing. The Clemson o-line better be in shape.

The dline depth will also encourage players to step-up and perform. With competition they realize if they dont step-up someone else will do the job. No time for complacency.

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HOW is it that Clemson has beaten all these Top-10 teams, and yet looked so helpless against A&M?

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I think the only relevant season is your last. So lets see how Clemson did LAST season...

Beat Miami, solid win but that was the weakest Miami team in quite some time. Have you seen Brock Berlin throw? Me neither.

Now to the losses...

Georgia Tech, Florida St. (the same team you were touting beating TWO years ago), Virginia, and nailbiter against DUKE. Congrats.

Oh and lets not forget 27-6 drubbing delivered by yours truly. Factor all this in with the talent you guys lost and you could be in for an 0-4 start this season.


...and boom goes the dynamite.


[This message has been edited by HOLDENc. (edited 5/1/2005 11:59a).]

Clemson doesn't have the talent that we do, if we played this game in Kyle again this year it would be a blow out, prolly 42-10, but since its at their place I'll say 30-17 A&M.

quote:
There's a reason Clemson fired both coordinators last year, and you saw it on the field.

Typically, firing both coordinators is a sign of desparation on the head coaches' part. I wouldn't take that as a positive.

What good does it do talking Clemson down? They're a mid-range ACC team, which means they have their ups and downs just like we do.
They're going to give us a game at home and I wouldnt go around giving them any bullentin board material against as.
The matchup has been cordial to this point, its in our best interests to keep it that way.

Clemson's loss to DUKE last year is not equal to our loss to BAYLOR.

If you had to pick one game that looked like an anomaly on Clemson's A&M's schedules you would select the Miami win and the Baylor loss, respectively.

Who else did we lose to that was even close to Baylor? (Utah-ended up top5, Oklahoma-top3 at the time, Texas-top5, Tennessee-ended up top 10?)

Clemson lost to Duke, GaTech, squeaked by WakeForest in double OT at home, Virginia (exposed).

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We will win in death valley on 9/3, no sweat.

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Umm sure. While yes i think we have more talent and better depth and much better recruiting each of the last 3 seasons, it STILL is the first game of the season and a large amout of our success is going to rely on alot of young players. This WILL NOT be an easy win and anybody who thinks so is just not being realistic.

[This message has been edited by bullard21k (edited 4/30/2005 9:12p).]

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They're going to give us a game at home and I wouldnt go around giving them any bullentin board material against as

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Bowden: Alright Tigers! Apparently HOLDEN over on TexAgs thinks you guys are a bunch of pansies! Look what he said!!!

Clemson FB team: OMG!!! KILL TEXAS A&M!!!!! DIE!!!

Obviously they're not going to be posting this thread in the lockerroom.(as well written as it was). However the general tone one school has for another does effect how the games turn out. Look at the BYU bowl game for instance, our guys took their heads off after hearing all the BYU smack.

by "BYU smack" I assume you mean football players running their mouths to the media? I would hardly compare HOLDEN making a fool of himself on the internet to Joe Namath's "guarantee".

Listen even if I spruced up my grammar nobody in Death Valley is gonna give a rat's ass what I have to say. Crap, 90% of TexAgs thinks I'm a looney, you think ppl in South Carolina care?

We shouldn't take Clemson lightly.
They have been inconsistent lately but when they are "on" they can beat anyone.

No way would I call this game a lock for us.

I do think we will win but I think we better be ready for a war in Death Valley. We don't know which Clemson team will show up. The one that we beat last year or the one that beat FSU recently.

*****************************************************
Franchione had the #1 defense in the nation in 2000 at TCU and the #3 defense in the nation in 2002 at Alabama.
THE WRECKING CREW IS COMING!

"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Sigh.

I'm not dissing A&M football. I'm not disrespecting the Aggies at all...I actually think A&M might make a run at Oklahoma and Texas this year. I was very impressed by what I saw out of A&M in their Spring Game (and yes, I did watch it...how was Clemson's, Holden?) Guess what: I'm not even saying Clemson will BEAT the Aggies.

I'm just saying that our guy Holden is wrong in several specific particulars, and that A&M was the beneficiary of some Clemson hubris last year...and I would know, seeing, as how, I'm a pretty avid Clemson fan and all. I don't presume to be an expert on the Aggies. How the two teams will match up come this August, I'm as curious as anyone.

Holden, on the other hand, DOES presume to know all about Clemson. From 1,500 miles or so away. And it seems nothing less than C-4 will open his mind to any notion other than that Clemson will be "weaker" this year, and A&M should have a cakewalk.

Clemson had all of three players drafted into the NFL last year. Three. And Tommy Bowden has recruited very well lately. Clemson's talent level hasn't exactly been razed to the ground. Insisting that Clemson has "fallen way off" is simply wrongheaded. Clemson started 1-4 last year...and finished 5-1 over its last six games.

It wasn't "desperation" that led Clemson to fire its coordinators. It was dissatisfaction. 6-5 seasons just aren't acceptable at Clemson.

I don't have much interest with getting in a flamewar with Texags.com, or the Aggie fans - who actually, were spoken very well of by the Clemson fans who made the A&M trip.

But HoldenC is still trying to pass himself off as an expert on Clemson, and he's obviously inadequate enough he won't admit it even when he's wrong...and he throws around sophomoric truisms like "...and boom goes the dynamite" like it's punctuating some profound point...when in actuality he's just letting us know how young he is.

Sleep well, young fella.

As far as the rest of ya...no problems with the Aggies, or Texags.com. I think you're a class program, and for the most part a genuinely class bunch of fans.

This is all crazy talk.

Clemson fans have always been cool to us, why does everyone have to start talking smack?

We'll just see what happens in Sept.

This game troubles me. Season opener, on the road, against a talented football team, in a tradition rich environment, at night, on National TV.
I'd much rather we open the seaon against Sam Houston St. AT HOME....within the safe confines of Kyle Field.

This game could be the beginning of something special or it could be the beginning of a nightmare.