There are only two variables
Recruiting
Coaching
So which is it
Or is it both
Recruiting
Coaching
So which is it
Or is it both
What is wrong with Texas A&M football
7,171 Views |
66 Replies |
Last: 2 days ago by JROD9398
The shorter list right now is what is right:
Kicking
Punting
Fan support
Kicking
Punting
Fan support
1. Offensive coordinator hire was a mistake, fix that in the offseason with a proven play caller
2. Quarterback - fix that in the offseason via the portal and tell Marcel to hit the road
3. Don't take other SEC rejects in the portal to fix offensive or defensive lines, hit on your recruits and get successful players from smaller schools and conferences that are looking to take the next step
2. Quarterback - fix that in the offseason via the portal and tell Marcel to hit the road
3. Don't take other SEC rejects in the portal to fix offensive or defensive lines, hit on your recruits and get successful players from smaller schools and conferences that are looking to take the next step
1. No cheerleaders
2. Corps block
3. Fans are too nice
4. DJ
2. Corps block
3. Fans are too nice
4. DJ
100% agree
Add QB Coach, WR Coach, and portal evaluators.
Prior to joining the SEC we were probably around top 20-30 in recruit rankings. Since joining the SEC we're more like a top 10 team. NIL and transfer portal have further shown we can get top players, not just locally but around the country.
Whereas I used to believe we had a problem with getting the Jimmys and Joes, that's really proving not to be true. Which also means we can throw out the absurd culture argument.
That leaves us with coaching.
Look at how our past coaches have fared:
Fran had losing seasons with Texas State
Sherman bombed at a high school of all places before bombing in one season in the CFL
Sumlin could barely win games at Arizona
and Jimbo has been collecting on his paycheck dreaming of the Seminoles
What we need is a coach who consistently wins wherever he goes and is successful despite not always having the players and resources one would expect.
Whereas I used to believe we had a problem with getting the Jimmys and Joes, that's really proving not to be true. Which also means we can throw out the absurd culture argument.
That leaves us with coaching.
Look at how our past coaches have fared:
Fran had losing seasons with Texas State
Sherman bombed at a high school of all places before bombing in one season in the CFL
Sumlin could barely win games at Arizona
and Jimbo has been collecting on his paycheck dreaming of the Seminoles
What we need is a coach who consistently wins wherever he goes and is successful despite not always having the players and resources one would expect.
We have B12 talent trying to play in the SEC. Through the years, seems like every team in the conference has bigger, faster and better football IQ kids than us.
we've discussed this recently on other threads...
recruiting elite and NFL-bound talent at QB-RB-WR via high school or the portal is the #1 problem
(and as mentioned above...speed is a huge deficiency)
Achane last played for A&M in 2022 -- four years later he has not been replaced
it took the program 8 years to replace Christian Kirk -- with Concepcion last year
gotta have those speedburners / gamebreakers / playmakers coming thru the program every season
plus a QB who has a chance to play on Sundays
recruiting elite and NFL-bound talent at QB-RB-WR via high school or the portal is the #1 problem
(and as mentioned above...speed is a huge deficiency)
Achane last played for A&M in 2022 -- four years later he has not been replaced
it took the program 8 years to replace Christian Kirk -- with Concepcion last year
gotta have those speedburners / gamebreakers / playmakers coming thru the program every season
plus a QB who has a chance to play on Sundays
The most obvious issue is our desperation which always leads to premature contract extensions.
We would not have any of the issues we have had with all of our HC hires if we didn't extend the contract before real tangible results were achieved.
We would not have any of the issues we have had with all of our HC hires if we didn't extend the contract before real tangible results were achieved.
OHAg82 said:
There are only two variables
Recruiting
Coaching
So which is it
Or is it both
Clearly it's coaching. The question isn't what is the problem. The question is what is the solution?
Growth is painful. Always.
Can't blame it on the bevel anymore.
I feel so much better since about 11 a.m. CT on 20 Jan. 2025
Coach Elko
OHAg82 said:
There are only two variables
Recruiting
Coaching
So which is it
Or is it both
You left off the obvious
NIL
18-20 year olds with bank in their pocket is what is wrong…. Lots of parties, weed, girls…… don't doubt me
The culture is the problem
It's going to take 2-3 more recruiting cycles to clean this out I think
Leadership. Whether that's BMAs or AD. We cannot figure it out. The rot runs deep. There are some big influencers in the program that are incompetent.
It's leadership and coaching. Always has been.
It's coaching as in Elko. He's made some bad decisions and it's year 3. I can understand earlier but year 3? He seems to be experimenting with his decisions. This isn't Duke where you can get an away with that. I just question whether he is capable of making hard, business like decisions. So far, no. And this is a huge business not a daycare to not hurt player feelings.
Culture
40 million dollar roster may not be enough to turn this sucker around. We may need to bump that up to 80 to be honest.
44 million. Buy another QB
Strawman.
There aren't only two variables.
Cesspool being extreme again.
There aren't only two variables.
Cesspool being extreme again.
It's us turds, of course.
Coach Fran's first season was in 2003, where we went 4-8 overall. In 2004, we went 7-5 including our first loss to Baylor in 19 years and a Cotton Bowl where Tennessee beat us 38-7. An inebriated Tennessee fan and I had a wager about if we would even score. His son had to take him home early because he was too drunk to sit up and I never got my $5.
The people in charge were concerned that with this level of success that Notre Dame might hire our coach. Coach Fran was given a $300k raise and had 2 additional years added to his contract. We proceeded to go 5-6 in the following season and Coach Fran was fired a few years later.
The "nationwide" search that resulted in the hiring of Coach Sherman went as far as the city of Houston, where Coach Sherman was an assistant for the Texans. The team proceeded to go 4-8 and 6-7 (including an Independence Bowl drubbing by Georgia). However, in 2010, the team went 9-4...and although we lost another non-competitive bowl game in the Cotton Bowl to LSU....we beat Texas!
So, to signify momentum? progress? headed toward the SEC, Coach Sherman was given a $400,000 raise and his contract was extended a year. The team promptly went 6-6 (7-6 following a bowl game coached by Coach DeRuyter) the following year despite starting the year in the Top 10. Coach Sherman was fired.
The "nationwide" search that followed went as far as the city of Houston, where Coach Sumlin was coaching the Cougars. Manziel and Co. carried the team to a great season in 2012.
Despite Manziel not being Sumlin's recruit, and clearly being an anomalous talent, Sumlin was immediately given a $1.1 million raise and contract extension. And despite having Manziel, the following year the Aggies went 9-4 (with a 4-4 conference record). With concern that the Philadelphia Eagles were going to hire away Coach Sumlin, he was given an ADDITIONAL raise and extension heading into the 2014 season....a 6-year deal worth an additional 3 million dollars per year.
The team proceeded to never finish above .500 in conference for the remainder of Sumlin's A&M tenure or above 4th in the SEC West.
Coach Sumlin had 2 years left on his contract, worth $10+ million, which seemed like a lot at the time.
Coach Fisher was hired with a generous 10 year contract going through 2027 at $7.5 million per season. The Aggies turned in a 9-1 record in 2020, but despite that season being one of the weirdest in college football history, there was concern that LSU was going to hire the coach. His contract was extended back to 10 years at an additional $2 million per year or so.
The team proceeded to never finish above .500 in Fisher's remaining 3 seasons at A&M, including a 2-6 mark in 2022. Coach Fisher was relieved of coaching duties with 8 seasons remaining on his contract.
The "nationwide" coaching search that followed was initially to hire Stoops from Kentucky, who had a similar if not worse record vs. SEC competition than the expensive departing coach. At the last moment, the hiring committee branched out and hired an assistant who had worked at A&M with the departing coach a few seasons prior.
2 years into his 6 year contract, the Aggies turned in a quality 11-2 season. However, the losses included dropping a game in Austin and scoring 3 points at home against Miami. Of the 7 conference wins, 4 were against teams that proceeded to fire their coaches and one was against a Missouri team on their 3rd string quarterback. The remaining wins included Mississippi State and an improbable comeback against South Carolina.
Once again, there was concern that someone else would hire the coach away, this time Penn State. Coach Elko's contract was extended back to its original 6 years at 10-11 million guaranteed dollars per season. The team proceeded to get embarrassed by a first year coach at Kentucky, and I guess we'll see where the rest of this season goes.
In this time period, the school's athletic director has also frequently changed....from Bill Byrne to Eric Hyman to Scott Woodward to Ross Bjork to Trev Alberts....a new one about every 3 years?
In conclusion, that's why I laugh at the posts that blame the corps or traditions or the fans.
The people in charge were concerned that with this level of success that Notre Dame might hire our coach. Coach Fran was given a $300k raise and had 2 additional years added to his contract. We proceeded to go 5-6 in the following season and Coach Fran was fired a few years later.
The "nationwide" search that resulted in the hiring of Coach Sherman went as far as the city of Houston, where Coach Sherman was an assistant for the Texans. The team proceeded to go 4-8 and 6-7 (including an Independence Bowl drubbing by Georgia). However, in 2010, the team went 9-4...and although we lost another non-competitive bowl game in the Cotton Bowl to LSU....we beat Texas!
So, to signify momentum? progress? headed toward the SEC, Coach Sherman was given a $400,000 raise and his contract was extended a year. The team promptly went 6-6 (7-6 following a bowl game coached by Coach DeRuyter) the following year despite starting the year in the Top 10. Coach Sherman was fired.
The "nationwide" search that followed went as far as the city of Houston, where Coach Sumlin was coaching the Cougars. Manziel and Co. carried the team to a great season in 2012.
Despite Manziel not being Sumlin's recruit, and clearly being an anomalous talent, Sumlin was immediately given a $1.1 million raise and contract extension. And despite having Manziel, the following year the Aggies went 9-4 (with a 4-4 conference record). With concern that the Philadelphia Eagles were going to hire away Coach Sumlin, he was given an ADDITIONAL raise and extension heading into the 2014 season....a 6-year deal worth an additional 3 million dollars per year.
The team proceeded to never finish above .500 in conference for the remainder of Sumlin's A&M tenure or above 4th in the SEC West.
Coach Sumlin had 2 years left on his contract, worth $10+ million, which seemed like a lot at the time.
Coach Fisher was hired with a generous 10 year contract going through 2027 at $7.5 million per season. The Aggies turned in a 9-1 record in 2020, but despite that season being one of the weirdest in college football history, there was concern that LSU was going to hire the coach. His contract was extended back to 10 years at an additional $2 million per year or so.
The team proceeded to never finish above .500 in Fisher's remaining 3 seasons at A&M, including a 2-6 mark in 2022. Coach Fisher was relieved of coaching duties with 8 seasons remaining on his contract.
The "nationwide" coaching search that followed was initially to hire Stoops from Kentucky, who had a similar if not worse record vs. SEC competition than the expensive departing coach. At the last moment, the hiring committee branched out and hired an assistant who had worked at A&M with the departing coach a few seasons prior.
2 years into his 6 year contract, the Aggies turned in a quality 11-2 season. However, the losses included dropping a game in Austin and scoring 3 points at home against Miami. Of the 7 conference wins, 4 were against teams that proceeded to fire their coaches and one was against a Missouri team on their 3rd string quarterback. The remaining wins included Mississippi State and an improbable comeback against South Carolina.
Once again, there was concern that someone else would hire the coach away, this time Penn State. Coach Elko's contract was extended back to its original 6 years at 10-11 million guaranteed dollars per season. The team proceeded to get embarrassed by a first year coach at Kentucky, and I guess we'll see where the rest of this season goes.
In this time period, the school's athletic director has also frequently changed....from Bill Byrne to Eric Hyman to Scott Woodward to Ross Bjork to Trev Alberts....a new one about every 3 years?
In conclusion, that's why I laugh at the posts that blame the corps or traditions or the fans.
The Kurse of Kayne.
The fix is an easy one..
The fix is an easy one..
BigSneezy said:OHAg82 said:
There are only two variables
Recruiting
Coaching
So which is it
Or is it both
Clearly it's coaching. The question isn't what is the problem. The question is what is the solution?
Growth is painful. Always.
EXACTLY!!!
Too many bad decisions in a short period of time regarding evaluation of talent and coaches. Not totally unexpected with an unproven HC still learning in his third year at the helm.
Anyone who thinks A&M is serious about football is not smart.
If you're not treating Aggie football like an epic Shakespearean-level tragic comedy full of satire and irony at this point, you're doomed to suffer through this and you deserve it.
The dimwits in charge of A&M have historically paid a premium to avoid a hypothetical disaster, only to finance a real one.
If you're not treating Aggie football like an epic Shakespearean-level tragic comedy full of satire and irony at this point, you're doomed to suffer through this and you deserve it.
The dimwits in charge of A&M have historically paid a premium to avoid a hypothetical disaster, only to finance a real one.
Our problem is we just have to be good enough to keep the stands full, which isn't very hard. It is the Jerry Jones model, stay relevant enough and they will pay $$.
HoustonAg2106 said:
3. Don't take other SEC rejects in the portal to fix offensive or defensive lines, hit on your recruits and get successful players from smaller schools and conferences that are looking to take the next step
Plenty of teams have picked up our "rejects" and they have excelled.
Jalapeno Popper said:
1. No cheerleaders
2. Corps block
3. Fans are too nice
4. DJ
Cheerleaders win football games? You must be a "cheer dad"....take that cheer **** somewhere else.
Mat Lanticus said:
The dimwits in charge of A&M have historically paid a premium to avoid a hypothetical disaster, only to finance a real one.
I think they should make NIL & coordinator contracts with a heavily weighted symbiotic bonus structure. OC gets 60/40 bonus for scoring metrics, 40% is reserved for bonuses to assistants & NIL (reward or replacement). Assistants have the same based on position metrics for distribution to GAs & NIL. If targets are missed it all goes into season end replacement fund for use by person above (I.e. head coach or coordinator). If head coach fails on metrics, it goes into buyout fund.
I'd use the same approach for NIL contracts, with failed target holdbacks going into NIL fund.
Beholden to NIL and players wishes....Elko setup HW as OC, hired QB coach with past ties (mistake) and paid Marcel to keep him here (think out of stubborness to prove to the world we have our QB) .... all of this was one big knot that Elko thought was the right path and removed optionality on many levels. Mistake and hope we now follow Miami's path...get the best QB in the market each year at all costs even for 1 year lease.
Now, HW offense hasn't truly been the complete reason for failure. OL has not executed (that's not on Wiggins, but a different coach), QB play has been awful (not fully on Wiggins on Reed just not seeing the field, making right reads, executing a pass to open WRs, etc.), cadence/rhythm not perfect (on Wiggins, but performance of players big issue for that) but there has been some plays/scheme that is there and Marcel (reading/making a pass) or OL (blocking or untimely penalties) who just did not do their part. Still think in Mizzou game, if Marcel throws a good ball to Horton on the wheel route early (which would have been a TD), things change for the game (not saying winning, but a good throw helps with confidence which turns into belief and grows in the game).
Also WR corps can't get open...do think elevating HW has hurt that group, but we are missing KC's ability which help the other WRs not see coverages nor how to read/sit in zone spaces (that's also on Reed and Craver's injury hasn't helped).
WR room took a beating with injuries and departures and proved our depth is way too inexperienced.
Guarantee Elko was involved with the overall gameplan for Mizzou w Wiggins....thinking we could run after a false test vs. Pigs. This OL is really not good and stated that after portal season (LSU ok to let the 2 OL go...whom we dominated in prior year, Bama didn't care OL left, I thought USCe G was the real get as he dominated us last year, but has underperformed thus far).
Now, HW offense hasn't truly been the complete reason for failure. OL has not executed (that's not on Wiggins, but a different coach), QB play has been awful (not fully on Wiggins on Reed just not seeing the field, making right reads, executing a pass to open WRs, etc.), cadence/rhythm not perfect (on Wiggins, but performance of players big issue for that) but there has been some plays/scheme that is there and Marcel (reading/making a pass) or OL (blocking or untimely penalties) who just did not do their part. Still think in Mizzou game, if Marcel throws a good ball to Horton on the wheel route early (which would have been a TD), things change for the game (not saying winning, but a good throw helps with confidence which turns into belief and grows in the game).
Also WR corps can't get open...do think elevating HW has hurt that group, but we are missing KC's ability which help the other WRs not see coverages nor how to read/sit in zone spaces (that's also on Reed and Craver's injury hasn't helped).
WR room took a beating with injuries and departures and proved our depth is way too inexperienced.
Guarantee Elko was involved with the overall gameplan for Mizzou w Wiggins....thinking we could run after a false test vs. Pigs. This OL is really not good and stated that after portal season (LSU ok to let the 2 OL go...whom we dominated in prior year, Bama didn't care OL left, I thought USCe G was the real get as he dominated us last year, but has underperformed thus far).
______________________________________________________
Play for the name on the front of your jersey, not the back...
Lance Uppercut said:
Coach Fran's first season was in 2003, where we went 4-8 overall. In 2004, we went 7-5 including our first loss to Baylor in 19 years and a Cotton Bowl where Tennessee beat us 38-7. An inebriated Tennessee fan and I had a wager about if we would even score. His son had to take him home early because he was too drunk to sit up and I never got my $5.
The people in charge were concerned that with this level of success that Notre Dame might hire our coach. Coach Fran was given a $300k raise and had 2 additional years added to his contract. We proceeded to go 5-6 in the following season and Coach Fran was fired a few years later.
The "nationwide" search that resulted in the hiring of Coach Sherman went as far as the city of Houston, where Coach Sherman was an assistant for the Texans. The team proceeded to go 4-8 and 6-7 (including an Independence Bowl drubbing by Georgia). However, in 2010, the team went 9-4...and although we lost another non-competitive bowl game in the Cotton Bowl to LSU....we beat Texas!
So, to signify momentum? progress? headed toward the SEC, Coach Sherman was given a $400,000 raise and his contract was extended a year. The team promptly went 6-6 (7-6 following a bowl game coached by Coach DeRuyter) the following year despite starting the year in the Top 10. Coach Sherman was fired.
The "nationwide" search that followed went as far as the city of Houston, where Coach Sumlin was coaching the Cougars. Manziel and Co. carried the team to a great season in 2012.
Despite Manziel not being Sumlin's recruit, and clearly being an anomalous talent, Sumlin was immediately given a $1.1 million raise and contract extension. And despite having Manziel, the following year the Aggies went 9-4 (with a 4-4 conference record). With concern that the Philadelphia Eagles were going to hire away Coach Sumlin, he was given an ADDITIONAL raise and extension heading into the 2014 season....a 6-year deal worth an additional 3 million dollars per year.
The team proceeded to never finish above .500 in conference for the remainder of Sumlin's A&M tenure or above 4th in the SEC West.
Coach Sumlin had 2 years left on his contract, worth $10+ million, which seemed like a lot at the time.
Coach Fisher was hired with a generous 10 year contract going through 2027 at $7.5 million per season. The Aggies turned in a 9-1 record in 2020, but despite that season being one of the weirdest in college football history, there was concern that LSU was going to hire the coach. His contract was extended back to 10 years at an additional $2 million per year or so.
The team proceeded to never finish above .500 in Fisher's remaining 3 seasons at A&M, including a 2-6 mark in 2022. Coach Fisher was relieved of coaching duties with 8 seasons remaining on his contract.
The "nationwide" coaching search that followed was initially to hire Stoops from Kentucky, who had a similar if not worse record vs. SEC competition than the expensive departing coach. At the last moment, the hiring committee branched out and hired an assistant who had worked at A&M with the departing coach a few seasons prior.
2 years into his 6 year contract, the Aggies turned in a quality 11-2 season. However, the losses included dropping a game in Austin and scoring 3 points at home against Miami. Of the 7 conference wins, 4 were against teams that proceeded to fire their coaches and one was against a Missouri team on their 3rd string quarterback. The remaining wins included Mississippi State and an improbable comeback against South Carolina.
Once again, there was concern that someone else would hire the coach away, this time Penn State. Coach Elko's contract was extended back to its original 6 years at 10-11 million guaranteed dollars per season. The team proceeded to get embarrassed by a first year coach at Kentucky, and I guess we'll see where the rest of this season goes.
In this time period, the school's athletic director has also frequently changed....from Bill Byrne to Eric Hyman to Scott Woodward to Ross Bjork to Trev Alberts....a new one about every 3 years?
In conclusion, that's why I laugh at the posts that blame the corps or traditions or the fans.
This is an exact example of the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. So it points to the root of the problem, between the "ones in charge" and the BMA's that lead these "nationwide" searches and think they know better and can pick the perfect coach, then throw more money at them so the don't leave us for our competition. We let "rumors" by agents get to us and jump to an extension when there was no real threat of the coach leaving. You would have thought after the Jimbo debacle we would have learned our lesson but obviously not, another knee jerk reaction.
I like Elko and hope he succeeds and hope this year is a 1 year result of a combination of what was lost to the NFL, losing both coordinators and hiring from within and missing on a few evaluations and can be turned around before next season but will have to wait and see.
For starters how about before we give out any more coaching extensions it be required that the team must have at a minimum 2 double digit win seasons as to prove the 1 season wasn't a fluke.
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