If there were a 12 team playoff this year, I am reading that the top ranked six conference champions get in automatically. So Liberty barely squeaks by 10-2 SMU to get in denying OU?

Think about next year with no Pac12. In that case Liberty and SMU BOTH get in edging out Ol Miss too!

The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

Ole Miss getting screwed next year is barely a blip vs FSU getting screwed.

The playoff with a committee was never a good idea. If they wanted a playoff, they should have kept the computers and just taken the top however many in the ratings.

The playoff never had anything to do with being a better way to determine a national champion. It was all about money.

screwing a team ranked 13 is better than screwing a #5 team that won their championship and went undefeated.

ElephantRider said:

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The playoff with a committee was never a good idea. If they wanted a playoff, they should have kept the computers and just taken the top however many in the ratings.

The playoff never had anything to do with being a better way to determine a national champion. It was all about money.

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Agree, but it was also about control. You cant bribe computers.

ChessieHuntingAg said:

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The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

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No. And no. A borderline 12/13th ranked team has no argument that they are #1 in the country. For the most part, the 4-team playoff has worked in deciding who was #1. Not this year, however, b/c FSU is undefeated in the ACC, and can argue that they are #1.

12 teams is too many. 6-12 will have a bunch of 2, maybe 3-loss teams. Look at who is 6-13. NONE of them have a legit claim that they are #1 in the country.

6 teams with 2 byes would be much better, and give more meaning to the regular season. 6 would have been perfect this year:

1. Michigan
2. Wash.
3. tu
4. Bama
5. FSU
6. Georgia/tOSU (One of them would cry about being "left out," but oh well, don't lose your conference championship, which IS a de facto playoff game).

16+ team playoff brackets have worked out just fine for the last 35+ years for all other divisions of NCAA football, all other NCAA sports, and every professional sports league. But it somehow isn't right for D1 football??!?

Ole Miss getting screwed is a good thing

Why is 12 teams "too many?"

The idea that glory days of college football were the days when "the regular season mattered!" because the AP and USATODAY/coaches would have a vote on the regular season is some ludicrous fantasy. What do you think was happening back then? Teams were always getting voted on based on the name.

This is ****ing football. The champion, at every level from pee-wee up through the NFL is to play a regular season that qualifies you for a playoff (and almost universally it is an extensive playoff with a ****load of teams compared to the size of the division) and then there is a single elimination knockout that determines the champion. EVERY LEVEL OF THE SPORT. College football has been *******ized from the beginning with corruption and exploitation. Its not something to look fondly at.

12 is actually demonstrably "too few" teams for the size of the division. Thats why they have to jam in weird ass special rules to give teams like Liberty hope that its "possible" to qualify for the playoff. The playoff needs to be bigger and qualification standardized, or those teams need to be lopped off into their own division with a separate competition. The playoffs we have now (and even the one scheduled for the future) barely qualify as a fair sporting competition.

It should be eight teams
no conference championship games

TheRatt87 said:

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16+ team playoff brackets have worked out just fine for the last 35+ years for all other divisions of NCAA football, all other NCAA sports, and every professional sports league. But it somehow isn't right for D1 football??!?

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Correct. To be fair, I don't follow the lower football divisions at all. But the difference w/ NCAA basketball, the NBA, and the NFL is parity. The NFL is basically a 9-8/8-9 league. A few good teams at the top, a few terrible teams at the bottom, and a whole lot of teams in the middle. Playoffs make sense there.

FBS has 5-6 (sometimes as few as 3) teams that clearly stand out above the rest.

NoahAg said:

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ChessieHuntingAg said:

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The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

---

No. And no. A borderline 12/13th ranked team has no argument that they are #1 in the country. For the most part, the 4-team playoff has worked in deciding who was #1. Not this year, however, b/c FSU is undefeated in the ACC, and can argue that they are #1.

12 teams is too many. 6-12 will have a bunch of 2, maybe 3-loss teams. Look at who is 6-13. NONE of them have a legit claim that they are #1 in the country.

6 teams with 2 byes would be much better, and give more meaning to the regular season. 6 would have been perfect this year:

1. Michigan
2. Wash.
3. tu
4. Bama
5. FSU
6. Georgia/tOSU (One of them would cry about being "left out," but oh well, don't lose your conference championship, which IS a de facto playoff game).

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I have no issue with 2 or 3 loss teams being in a 12/16 team playoff.
Given the roster turnover in college football due to graduation and now the portal, there are definitely teams that may lose 1 or 2 early but are playing like a top 5 team at year end.

Whatever gets us closer to settling it fully on the field and further from a subjective beauty pageant is a step in the right direction.

NoahAg said:

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ChessieHuntingAg said:

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The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

---

No. And no. A borderline 12/13th ranked team has no argument that they are #1 in the country. For the most part, the 4-team playoff has worked in deciding who was #1. Not this year, however, b/c FSU is undefeated in the ACC, and can argue that they are #1.

12 teams is too many. 6-12 will have a bunch of 2, maybe 3-loss teams. Look at who is 6-13. NONE of them have a legit claim that they are #1 in the country.

6 teams with 2 byes would be much better, and give more meaning to the regular season. 6 would have been perfect this year:

1. Michigan
2. Wash.
3. tu
4. Bama
5. FSU
6. Georgia/tOSU (One of them would cry about being "left out," but oh well, don't lose your conference championship, which IS a de facto playoff game).

---

Wrong, 12 teams is perfect, although it should be limited to Power4(pac is done)….enough of the Liberty's of the world…..a playoff loaded with Bama, Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Washington, Oregon, Ole Miss, Missouri, Florida State, LSU……Would have been Phenominal……Get rid of the crappy "gimme games and teams"….. leave no doubt

JJxvi said:

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Why is 12 teams "too many?"

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B/c 6-12, through the regular season, have already proven they aren't even the best in their respective conferences. But they somehow have a claim to being the best in the country?

Georgia, tOSU, and Oregon (6-8) already lost their first "playoff" game.
Mizzou, PSU, ole Miss, OU (9-12) are 2-loss teams that didn't even make their conference championships.

The playoffs need to answer one of two questions:

Who was the best team overall this season? OR
Who peaked at the right time?

A 4-6 team playoff answers the first. 12 answers the second.
I'm as NY Giants fan. In neither of their last 2 Super Bowls were they the best team in the NFL. But they did good enough too make the playoffs, got healthy, and peaked at the right time.

NoahAg said:

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ChessieHuntingAg said:

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The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

---

No. And no. A borderline 12/13th ranked team has no argument that they are #1 in the country. For the most part, the 4-team playoff has worked in deciding who was #1. Not this year, however, b/c FSU is undefeated in the ACC, and can argue that they are #1.

12 teams is too many. 6-12 will have a bunch of 2, maybe 3-loss teams. Look at who is 6-13. NONE of them have a legit claim that they are #1 in the country.

6 teams with 2 byes would be much better, and give more meaning to the regular season. 6 would have been perfect this year:

1. Michigan
2. Wash.
3. tu
4. Bama
5. FSU
6. Georgia/tOSU (One of them would cry about being "left out," but oh well, don't lose your conference championship, which IS a de facto playoff game).

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Notre Dame approves this message!

Dumb comment....

ChessieHuntingAg said:

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If there were a 12 team playoff this year, I am reading that the top ranked six conference champions get in automatically. So Liberty barely squeaks by 10-2 SMU to get in denying OU?

Think about next year with no Pac12. In that case Liberty and SMU BOTH get in edging out Ol Miss too!

The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

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No it won't. This year is very unique in that you have 7 teams which have legitimate claims to a spot in the playoff and 4 or 5 with legit shots to win the whole thing. Nobody gives a flying flip about teams 10-13/14 because those teams are going to just be happy to be invited with no legit shot a winning the NC.

ChessieHuntingAg said:

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If there were a 12 team playoff this year, I am reading that the top ranked six conference champions get in automatically. So Liberty barely squeaks by 10-2 SMU to get in denying OU?

Think about next year with no Pac12. In that case Liberty and SMU BOTH get in edging out Ol Miss too!

The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

---

You would be correct assuming no changes, but there will be changes. The only reason the expansion went to 12 was the P5 conferences were not going to agree to a G5 champ. getting an auto-bid in a 6 or 8 team field. it is debatable they should be included even in a 12 team field but to be nice, generous, and inclusive (not fair) the agreed upon expansion was 12 teams with 6 auto-bids to the 6 highest rated conference champions then 6 at-large / wild card teams which are going to be dominated by P5 teams, primarily from the SEC and B1G, ACC to a lesser extent.

However that was based on the currently existing Power 5 (FIVE) conference model. It is highly likely this gets revised to the five highest rated conference champs + 7 at-large / wild card teams, as there will only be 4 major conferences (SEC, B1G, ACC, Big 12), they aren't going to reserve two spots for two G5 champs.

The goods news about the 12 team field, you can go 10-2 or with 3 losses and still get in, as Oregon, Mizzou, PSU, Ole Miss all would have this season. I am willing to bet there will even be seasons a 9-3 SEC team gets in.

No, you are missing his point. In the Final CFP rankings Liberty and SMU were 23 and 24, he is saying if it remained 6 highest rated conference champs those two would get in over #11 Ole Miss and #12 OU. And that would still be a problem and a point of contention, and it would be.

I think it will be changed to 5 auto-bids and 7 at-large teams, and the auto-bid will be 5 highest rated conference champions, which effectively is then the Power 4 + a G5 champ. So, there will still be an argument of #12 getting left out in favor of #23, for example, but it is what it is.

FYI final CFP rankings for 2023:

1. Michigan
2. Washington
3. Texas
4. Alabama
5. Florida State
6. Georgia
7. Ohio State
8. Oregon
9. Missouri
10. Penn State
11. Ole Miss
12. Oklahoma
13. LSU
14. Arizona
15. Louisville
16. Notre Dame
17. Iowa
18. NC State
19. Oregon State
20. Oklahoma State
21. Tennessee
22. Clemson
23. Liberty
24. SMU
25. Kansas State

Flashdiaz said:

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screwing a team ranked 13 is better than screwing a #5 team that won their championship and went undefeated.

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Well, they're only #5 because they got screwed...

Then again to my points above, the CFP could just keep it as is, and say there are 6 at-large spots open, so no change to the model. But 99.9999999% sure that will be modified to 5 highest rated conference champs and 7 at-large.

Next year the same committee is going to make the parings, schedule, brackets etc. to their corrupt liking to manipulate outcomes the same as this year. It is not going to matter if you have 8 or 12 or 20. When they can manipulate by just saying a team can't play because their QB was hurt… do you not think they are doing other biased decisions as well?
As Mike Leach said…. We don't need no f committee!

ChessieHuntingAg said:

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If there were a 12 team playoff this year, I am reading that the top ranked six conference champions get in automatically. So Liberty barely squeaks by 10-2 SMU to get in denying OU?

Think about next year with no Pac12. In that case Liberty and SMU BOTH get in edging out Ol Miss too!

The conversation will be exactly the same. Some teams are going to get screwed.

---

It's a playoff. The conf champ game is essentially part of it. Win and your in, unlike the current lol "playoff".

Correct, BUT what you need to understand with expanded playoff is that it isn't about selecting the best 12 teams anymore.

Just like college basketball isn't about selecting best 64 teams for tournament.

So yes, we will have playoff teams that are not nearly as good as teams left out. Fix one problem, create another.

National media ignores this. Simply claims moving to 12 teams fixes what happened this year. It does, but don't be fooled that means 12 best teams get in.

JJxvi said:

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Why is 12 teams "too many?"

The idea that glory days of college football were the days when "the regular season mattered!" because the AP and USATODAY/coaches would have a vote on the regular season is some ludicrous fantasy. What do you think was happening back then? Teams were always getting voted on based on the name.

This is ****ing football. The champion, at every level from pee-wee up through the NFL is to play a regular season that qualifies you for a playoff (and almost universally it is an extensive playoff with a ****load of teams compared to the size of the division) and then there is a single elimination knockout that determines the champion. EVERY LEVEL OF THE SPORT. College football has been *******ized from the beginning with corruption and exploitation. Its not something to look fondly at.

---

There should not be championship or playoff games. There are already too many games during the regular season. We should be concerned about the increase in players' injuries as games increase. We don't need a clear number one in football. Go back to the polls determining the #1 based on fiction.

It will be interesting to see the final results if fsu wins there bowl game and Alabama or sips win the bcs final.

Well, there is nothing OFFICIAL on the CFP site, but apparently the 5+7 model has already been agreed to:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38865936/cfp-committee-present-5+7-model-board


My guess is this becomes official early next year.

It would likely be Oregon State and not SMU btw in the "what if this year was last year" scenarios, as presumably they will play in a conference and not be like independent.

WolfCall said:

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JJxvi said:

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Why is 12 teams "too many?"

The idea that glory days of college football were the days when "the regular season mattered!" because the AP and USATODAY/coaches would have a vote on the regular season is some ludicrous fantasy. What do you think was happening back then? Teams were always getting voted on based on the name.

This is ****ing football. The champion, at every level from pee-wee up through the NFL is to play a regular season that qualifies you for a playoff (and almost universally it is an extensive playoff with a ****load of teams compared to the size of the division) and then there is a single elimination knockout that determines the champion. EVERY LEVEL OF THE SPORT. College football has been *******ized from the beginning with corruption and exploitation. Its not something to look fondly at.

---

There should not be championship or playoff games. There are already too many games during the regular season. We should be concerned about the increase in players' injuries as games increase. We don't need a clear number one in football. Go back to the polls determining the #1 based on fiction.

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What a load. Get rid of hundreds of games that very few people want to see like Texas a&m vs Abilene Christian. Play a maximum of 10 games with like one game against another major out of conference team only. And then make the playoffs huge so good programs replace **** home games with like multiple playoff home games. All the games would be interesting, cut out the non con crap and the weedeater bowls that are just filler garbage.

There a huge number of FBS teams that only joined the division in the last few decades because of allowing teams like us to buy wins that we can then charge (ourselves) an arm and a leg for in tickets and donations. Its horse***** We're paying for all these **** games that "kids might get hurt in"

Dont make em play those bs games, let them play (and us pay for and watch) games that mean something instead (playoff games)

TyperWoods said:

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ElephantRider said:

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The playoff with a committee was never a good idea. If they wanted a playoff, they should have kept the computers and just taken the top however many in the ratings.

The playoff never had anything to do with being a better way to determine a national champion. It was all about money.

---

Agree, but it was also about control. You cant bribe computers.

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Yeah but you can bribe the folks that write the code…

NoahAg said:

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JJxvi said:

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Why is 12 teams "too many?"

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B/c 6-12, through the regular season, have already proven they aren't even the best in their respective conferences. But they somehow have a claim to being the best in the country?

Georgia, tOSU, and Oregon (6-8) already lost their first "playoff" game.
Mizzou, PSU, ole Miss, OU (9-12) are 2-loss teams that didn't even make their conference championships.

The playoffs need to answer one of two questions:

Who was the best team overall this season? OR
Who peaked at the right time?

A 4-6 team playoff answers the first. 12 answers the second.
I'm as NY Giants fan. In neither of their last 2 Super Bowls were they the best team in the NFL. But they did good enough too make the playoffs, got healthy, and peaked at the right time.

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This is a good point and makes sense. Who was the best team throughout the year? College football is different than all other sports because there are so many teams, and this would be a good way of determining that.

My point was that there is always a team left out and very rarely is it cut and dry.