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Brent article on Kyle Field being rebuilt to make it safer

14,012 Views | 57 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Divining Rod
agz win
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Good article and thanks to all the Aggies that were involved. And Brent, you did good.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/Texas-A-M-with-stadium-made-safer-has-unsung-17393462.php

COLLEGE STATION Dime Box High School participated in a track and field meet at Texas A&M's Kyle Field in 1951, and I know this because my father, Bill Zwerneman, competed in the meet more than 70 years ago. He'd proudly remind his family as much each time we drove by towering Kyle when I was a kid.

After high school in the early 1950s, he entered the Air Force and put the region in his rearview for a few years, never roaming back inside Kyle Field. In the late 1990s, I was covering the Aggies and invited my dad, a Houston-area homebuilder with a sharp mind for structural integrity, to attend an A&M football game with my mother and family friends.

I figured it would bring back good memories of that track meet as well. Afterward, he said while he appreciated the invite, it would also be his last game at Kyle. The concrete stands moved way too much for his liking during the "Aggie War Hymn," when fans would link arms and sway.

He explained that in the military, when marching soldiers crossed a bridge, they would fall out of step so as not to pound the structure in unison a common-sense approach to not creating a collapse. And while the hundreds of rows of A&M fans didn't all move in the same direction during the war hymn, it still caused the massive three-deck concrete structure on all four sides (that were not tied together) to shift incredibly uncomfortably.

To the point A&M warned unsuspecting visitors to the press box, via a printout, not be alarmed by the structure moving during the war hymn. A reporter from the Killeen Daily Herald in 2011 described the press box's creaking and moving nine stories in the sky as "one of the most unnerving things I've experienced on the job."

Richard Box noticed the hushed unease of it all, too, and unlike my disturbed dad and any unnerved reporters, Box was in a solid position to do something about it as then-A&M regents chairman. He did, and the Distinguished Alumnus from the Class of 1961 is worthy of a campus statue because of his unrelenting concern for the safety of A&M students and fans.

"Every time the Aggies sang the war hymn, that thing would sway uncomfortably," Box recalled of the old, mostly freestanding Kyle Field structure through 2014. "I got really concerned, because we'd had such a bad experience with the bonfire collapse (in 1999) that killed 12 students. I just said, 'We cannot have the possibility of this stadium falling down and hurting or killing anybody.' "

Box, a retired dentist in Austin, a Vietnam veteran and a retired general in the Texas State Guard, was named an A&M regent in 2008 and was appointed chairman of the university's building and physical plant. He said prior correspondence from the state fire marshal's office about Kyle Field immediately caught his eye when he was handed a portfolio linked to his new duties.

"There was a 1,000-gallon fuel tank under the east side where the students sat and a building close by the (tank)," Box said. "And a chain-link fence between (old) G. Rollie White Coliseum and the stadium had a seven-foot choke point for about 30,000 students to try and get out of the stadium and out of harm's way if something happened. Those were just a few of the things."

Most startling, Box added, was the way the old massive concrete structure swayed during the war hymn. A&M through the decades had added mostly freestanding decks one above the another, and the four sides were not tied together to stem the swaying. Box and then-fellow regent Jim Schwertner about 12 years ago began pushing for a renovation before a potential tragedy took place, calling first for an updated structural engineering report.

"The report came back, and I didn't feel comfortable with it," Box said. "We had some large discrepancies, fractures (in the structure), and large chunks of concrete that had fallen out on both sides of the stadium. That formulated my early impression that we needed to have a new stadium."

Around that same time, A&M mulled a move from the Big 12 to the more lucrative and powerful Southeastern Conference. The bright lights and remarkable road trips and increased competition of the SEC grabbed the headlines then and now but Box also had another reason for pushing for the SEC.

"It made sense financially to go the SEC because that would increase our ability to be able to accomplish the goal of a new stadium," Box said. "That played heavily on my mind when I became chairman of the board in 2011."

Schwertner said of Box: "The right chairman at the right time."

Schwertner, an A&M regent from 2009-2015, said when he sat by his daughter, an A&M student in the mid-2000s, on Kyle's east side, "Every time we sang the war hymn, the stands swayed, and that bugged the hell out of me.

"And then when I became a regent and would be up in the press box area on the west side and the same thing was happening, I'd tell Richard Box, 'There's something wrong with this place,' " Schwertner remembered. "I didn't like it, and I thought, man, bonfire was bad, and this is really going to be bad if something happened. … It was scary."

The timing worked out big-time on an aging Kyle Field. The Aggies moved to the SEC 10 years ago this summer and enjoyed immediate success behind 2012 Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel, prompting an influx of funds from donors for the Kyle rebuild.

Under chancellor John Sharp's direction, A&M renovated the east side prior to the 2014 season and imploded the west side after the season, then rebuilt the iconic structure symmetrically with all four sides tied together in time for the 2015 season a much safer and sounder presentation moving forward for still-swaying fans.
"I don't think people realize that was a prime ingredient on my mind in making that move to the SEC," said Box, A&M regent chairman from 2011-13, of more funds being made available for a Kyle Field rebuild via the new league. "Those stands had (previously) just been stacked one layer on top of another like a wedding cake. I'm so thankful nothing bad happened."

The Aggies open their season Sept. 3 against Sam Houston in one of the largest, soundest stadiums in the nation. A pleased Schwertner, a prominent cattleman and banker north of Austin, added of the largely unknown story involving another key element to the Aggies' seismic move to the SEC: "We tried to figure out a way to add some revenue, and we had talked about redoing Kyle Field. Everything just worked out perfect."
Sponge
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But what about the new vertical deflection issue?
wbt5845
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As a structural engineer with about 35 years of experience, I can say that is perhaps the most inane article I've ever read.

Good thing the author's father never went up in the World Trade Center - may have filled his Depends.
Gyles Marrett
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Sponge said:

But what about the new vertical deflection issue?
Yeah he seems to have left out all of the extra reinforcing added in the south endzone after it's first season yet he is fully aware of it and what happened....and was far more of a safety concern than the horizontal swaying.
A is A
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Sponge said:

But what about the new vertical deflection issue?
Per the end of this thread - it was being resolved

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2568513/

W
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victory has a hundred fathers and so forth
NE PA Ag
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wbt5845 said:

As a structural engineer with about 35 years of experience, I can say that is perhaps the most inane article I've ever read.

Good thing the author's father never went up in the World Trade Center - may have filled his Depends.


I'm no structural engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once. I thought you needed movement, that a tall structure has to have flexibility or it could break apart or lose integrity.

I watched a show on cable one time about the Citibank HQ building built in NYC in the late 70s. It is particularly interesting because it has 4 support towers of about 5/6 stories each built in the middle of each side, with the corners cantilevered.

The building swayed so much they added a huge metal plate that sits on an equally huge base in the top of the structure. There is lubrication between the plate and the base, and sensors that detect when the building is moving too far one way or the other from wind, thus shifting the plate to cause opposite momentum to temper the movement. I found it fascinating.

Secondary to that, a grad student at Carnegie Mellon contacted the engineering company during construction, he had the plans and for some reason was reviewing them, probably related to his coursework.

He warned them that the exterior support system for the building was not adequate to prevent the building from losing structural integrity over a certain wind speed (not huge, like 50 or 60 mph). They followed up with his concern, found his assessment to be accurate, and added criss crossing supports to the external shell of the building.
Ugly
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But it didn't fix the issues with people falling down and disappearing
Gyles Marrett
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A is A said:

Sponge said:

But what about the new vertical deflection issue?
Per the end of this thread - it was being resolved

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2568513/


and I still laugh at the CYA by Texas A&M that "it was not a safety issue and done for the comfort of fans".....If it was actually determined to not be a safety issue there would have been no more money spent to add more steel reinforcement. They would have told everyone it was reviewed and determined to be safe. 100% a CYA statement.
ColoAg95
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Citicorp was the second major building Bill LeMessurier screwed up, and he was celebrated for calling out his own mistakes (which was the grad student, not him). Never lost his license. And Citicorp was occupied the entire time they fixed his screw up in secret.

Citicorp's problem was that they analyzed wind perpendicular to the building faces, but it's mega columns were at the midpoints of the exterior wall, in order to save the church below. Wind from 45 degrees reduced the moment arm by 0.7. Total rookie mistake that [url=https://www.lemessurier.com/][/url]LeMessurier should have lost his license over, and probably spent some time in jail. He screwed up another building in Boston by using the wrong method to analyze lateral. A BS civil grad should have known that was the wrong method.

Building movement from wind or temperature displacement is usually not perceptible. Bouncing and swaying from harmonics is a totally different story. It is tough to analyze, because the frequency of human induced movement changes with the dancing song beat. I lose sleep worrying about buildings I've designed. Nothing has failed yet, but there is always time.
Old School Brother
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ColoAg95 said:

Building movement from wind or temperature displacement is usually not perceptible. Bouncing and swaying from harmonics is a totally different story. It is tough to analyze, because the frequency of human induced movement changes with the dancing song beat. I lose sleep worrying about buildings I've designed. Nothing has failed yet, but there is always time.
Not to mention that you have to account for the number of white people with no rhythm there are in the room.
BuckshotJ
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Re :CitiCorp bldg. the Tuned mass damper was not "added"; it was part of the original design. This was the first major tall bldg to use a TMD. And, the diagonal braces were not added, but rather reinforced at bolted joints to increase capacity. Otherwise your recollection of the video is accurate.

Re: Kyle field…a serious problem arose when the second deck was added. Structural engineer did not call out rebar size on the (critical) reinforcing carrying bending moment in the cantilever decking at base of the deck. Pres Rudder noticed cracking at the base as he was walked thru a recently completed section. Contractor assured him no problem, but he tasked Dr Teddy Hirsch, on CE faculty, to investigate. Hirsch discovered the engineer's omission of the rebar sizing on the plans, and learned that the contractor, as was common construction practice when rebar size was not called out, had placed very light reinforcing there for temperature/shrinkage. That cantilevered deck would almost certainly have collapsed when fully loaded. It was externally reinforced with steel channels bolted to bottom of the cantilevered deck, which were visible below, and the structure served for many years.
“ After they've boosted all the rest
They will come and join the best…”
ColoAg95
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Gyles Marrett said:

A is A said:

Sponge said:

But what about the new vertical deflection issue?
Per the end of this thread - it was being resolved

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2568513/


and I still laugh at the CYA by Texas A&M that "it was not a safety issue and done for the comfort of fans".....If it was actually determined to not be a safety issue there would have been no more money spent to add more steel reinforcement. They would have told everyone it was reviewed and determined to be safe. 100% a CYA statement.
TOTALLY INACCURATE. Strength, deflection, and harmonic vibration are totally different things. Building movement can be safe from damage or collapse, but very uncomfortable to occupants. I was standing in the lobby of WYO's performing arts hall, when my kids ran by. Their footfall alone was enough to induce a very uncomfortable bounce. That floor worked for strength, but not for vibration. I know because I snuck downstairs with a tape measure and ran the numbers. My wife loves being married to an engineer. The funny thing is that because of my super-exciting work stories, she was the only other person to notice the bounce in the floor. HAHA
Sterling82
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Ugly said:

But it didn't fix the issues with people falling down and disappearing

Especially the handicapped.
greg.w.h
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ColoAg95 said:

Gyles Marrett said:

A is A said:

Sponge said:

But what about the new vertical deflection issue?
Per the end of this thread - it was being resolved

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2568513/


and I still laugh at the CYA by Texas A&M that "it was not a safety issue and done for the comfort of fans".....If it was actually determined to not be a safety issue there would have been no more money spent to add more steel reinforcement. They would have told everyone it was reviewed and determined to be safe. 100% a CYA statement.
TOTALLY INACCURATE. Strength, deflection, and harmonic vibration are totally different things. Building movement can be safe from damage or collapse, but very uncomfortable to occupants. I was standing in the lobby of WYO's performing arts hall, when my kids ran by. Their footfall alone was enough to induce a very uncomfortable bounce. That floor worked for strength, but not for vibration. I know because I snuck downstairs with a tape measure and ran the numbers. My wife loves being married to an engineer. The funny thing is that because of my super-exciting work stories, she was the only other person to notice the bounce in the floor. HAHA
Though I'm not a engineer, my wife wishes I wouldn't point out risks she had safely ignored previously. She keeps asking me why I seem to always prophesy worst case outcomes…right before we realize them…

I tell her because it's easier then.
ccatag
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Whatever happened to that building in San Francisco (I think?) that was sinking and starting to lean and stress?
aggiehawg
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wbt5845 said:

As a structural engineer with about 35 years of experience, I can say that is perhaps the most inane article I've ever read.

Good thing the author's father never went up in the World Trade Center - may have filled his Depends.
When we lived up north. Dad worked on the upper floors of the Chrysler Building. On windy days, the water in the toilet bowls would slosh around.
NoahAg
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I started attending games at Kyle in 1997, and have sat just about everywhere (except the press box). I've never noticed this swaying.
Let's go, Brandon!
Gump 02
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Absolutely fascinating discussion... really!


So, how many more days until kickoff?

Gyles Marrett
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ColoAg95 said:

Gyles Marrett said:

A is A said:

Sponge said:

But what about the new vertical deflection issue?
Per the end of this thread - it was being resolved

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2568513/


and I still laugh at the CYA by Texas A&M that "it was not a safety issue and done for the comfort of fans".....If it was actually determined to not be a safety issue there would have been no more money spent to add more steel reinforcement. They would have told everyone it was reviewed and determined to be safe. 100% a CYA statement.
TOTALLY INACCURATE. Strength, deflection, and harmonic vibration are totally different things. Building movement can be safe from damage or collapse, but very uncomfortable to occupants. I was standing in the lobby of WYO's performing arts hall, when my kids ran by. Their footfall alone was enough to induce a very uncomfortable bounce. That floor worked for strength, but not for vibration. I know because I snuck downstairs with a tape measure and ran the numbers. My wife loves being married to an engineer. The funny thing is that because of my super-exciting work stories, she was the only other person to notice the bounce in the floor. HAHA
You didn't prove my statement to be inaccurate.....I didn't say it can't move/vibrate and still be safe which is your point. I said they wouldn't have added the huge amounts of new steel reinforcement at a cost simply for comfort. The facts you laid out is why the CYA statement could be made and I know for a fact the reasoning for the reinforcement had a lot to do with safety and saying that's inaccurate just shows to me you aren't aware of what went into the decision.

Again, however I agree and understand your point that something can be safe yet uncomfortable. No one denied that.
Jack Klompus
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Similar issues with Evans Library. The structural engineers forgot to take into account the weight of the books.
moses hall ag
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I don't think this story is based on reality. I've been hearing statements like this for years about the sway at Kyle during the war hymn. I've attended games since 1990 and have never felt the sway. I think people see the fans sway and think the stadium is moving but it is not. I'd like to see a study that measures movement but I don't believe one exists.
AgCat93
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BuckshotJ said:

Re :CitiCorp bldg. the Tuned mass damper was not "added"; it was part of the original design. This was the first major tall bldg to use a TMD. And, the diagonal braces were not added, but rather reinforced at bolted joints to increase capacity. Otherwise your recollection of the video is accurate.

Re: Kyle field…a serious problem arose when the second deck was added. Structural engineer did not call out rebar size on the (critical) reinforcing carrying bending moment in the cantilever decking at base of the deck. Pres Rudder noticed cracking at the base as he was walked thru a recently completed section. Contractor assured him no problem, but he tasked Dr Teddy Hirsch, on CE faculty, to investigate. Hirsch discovered the engineer's omission of the rebar sizing on the plans, and learned that the contractor, as was common construction practice when rebar size was not called out, had placed very light reinforcing there for temperature/shrinkage. That cantilevered deck would almost certainly have collapsed when fully loaded. It was externally reinforced with steel channels bolted to bottom of the cantilevered deck, which were visible below, and the structure served for many years.


Was this on the east side or west side?

I was aware the 1967-era second deck was built atop the 1954-era second deck on the west side. Was the 1954-era structure sound enough to support a deck above it AND withstand sway? I would enjoy looking at the plans for this (assuming they exist) as well as any reports or research to see the reasons for this approach (other than saving time and money by not demolishing the older deck.)
sleepybeagle
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moses hall ag said:

I don't think this story is based on reality. I've been hearing statements like this for years about the sway at Kyle during the war hymn. I've attended games since 1990 and have never felt the sway. I think people see the fans sway and think the stadium is moving but it is not. I'd like to see a study that measures movement but I don't believe one exists.
Are you also denying that people are falling down and disappearing?
AGAZ03
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All Brent does is write "hit pieces" about A&M.

It's a bold strategy for someone who makes a living covering a university and program.
Jugstore Cowboy
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wbt5845 said:

As a structural engineer with about 35 years of experience, I can say that is perhaps the most inane article I've ever read.

Good thing the author's father never went up in the World Trade Center - may have filled his Depends.
I thought you worked on airplanes?

annie88
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Every time the Aggies sang the war hymn, that thing would sway uncomfortably.

Most liked it.
Currently a happy listless vessel and deplorable. #FDEMS TRUMP 2024.
Fight Fight Fight.
annie88
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moses hall ag said:

I don't think this story is based on reality. I've been hearing statements like this for years about the sway at Kyle during the war hymn. I've attended games since 1990 and have never felt the sway. I think people see the fans sway and think the stadium is moving but it is not. I'd like to see a study that measures movement but I don't believe one exists.


Many in the press boxes would say that it would. But I rarely heard people say that scared them.
Currently a happy listless vessel and deplorable. #FDEMS TRUMP 2024.
Fight Fight Fight.
Jugstore Cowboy
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I always thought it was a myth based on an optical illusion. But I haven't done much structural engineering since my Lego days.
moses hall ag
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I don't doubt that the people in the press box said that they felt it sway. I doubt that it was actually swaying enough to feel it. As I said, unless I see a study or report that documents movement my experience tells me that the movement is perception due to sight.
Atreides Ornithopter
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What is the frequency of the sway and what is the frequency of the lateral mode that is deflecting. If the aren't the same this isn't am issue.

Note Earthquakes destroy buildings between 4 and 10 stories tall because of the frequency is similar. They wony bring 50 plus story buildings down. The mass dampers are for people to not freak.
https://i.postimg.cc/rpHKr9JQ/IMG-0770.jpg
AggieArchitect04
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Some developers wanted to save some money by spacing out their bar joists further. I think they also shallowed the depth. Now their floors are bouncy!
Class of 65
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We moved to Corpus Christi 20 months ago. The harbor Bridge is a disaster. Got any structural engineers around to fix thus mess.
AggieZUUL
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2001 game vs Notre Dame...I recall the bathroom walls moving while standing at the urinal in the Zone. It was a real thing.
Ags77
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The only place I HAVENT sat in Kyle is the new endzone upper deck and I have been in the press box many times.

I have never experienced this swaying thing
Gigem
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