Originally posted by turkishAg on premium

turkishAg said:

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I will start this off by saying that when I first read that we were after Durkin my immediate reaction was one of concern. I didn't do a ton of research into the death of Jordan McNair at the time, but this post by a Maryland fan has certainly made me feel more educated about the situation.

/u/kookoofunpants on Reddit CFB:

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There's a reason he wasn't fired with cause.

https://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2018/1025/MarylandReport.pdf

"After Dr. Walters provided his preliminary report in late July, suggesting that the training staff bore some responsibility for the tragedy, Mr. Durkin urged Mr. Evans to retain a new training staff before August practices began, to ensure the safety of the players."

"[Mr. Durkin] states that he repeatedly requested that a physician be assigned to cover every football practice, and Mr. Anderson has confirmed that Mr. Durkin made this request"

"In interviews with the Commission, Mr. Durkin expressed frustration with the level of support, and the lack of communication, he received from Athletics. He was particularly upset when UMD reorganized the doctors providing care to the football players. Mr. Durkin felt that one physician, who had treated football players for several years, was trusted by the players. This physician was removed from her position without prior notice to, let alone input from, Mr. Durkin."

These do not seem like the actions of a raving lunatic. He is not an old-school no water football guy. He spoke at Jordan's funeral. He is not a murderer.

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Similarly regarding the team walking out on Durkin:

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There was a big split in the players that were holdovers from the previous staff and the ones he recruited. Same reason Tyrell Pigrome and Chance Campbell transferred to Ole Miss. Antoine Brooks family and Wade Lees defended Durkin. JC Jackson literally said "just being around Coach Durkin, he just taught me to be a man".

There was an extremely nasty war of public opinion waged by the lawyer because of the horrible communication to the parents of Jordan McNair from the school and the ****ed up Athletic department about the reasons why Jordan died. Durkin was the most recognizable person in the incident and that's who they went after. The corresponding story in ESPN had zero to do with Wes Robinson and Nordwall's inability to treat heatstroke after a standard conditioning drill.

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OP - thanks for the post!

Hopefully this will help some of these pearl clutching "Ags" on here.

This is good news. Thanks OP

I just skimmed the doc but this is finger pointing. Durkin claiming the S&C coach reported to an associate AD and not him sounds like baloney to me.

What that doesn't cover, OP, and what I would be most interested in, is his direct involvement in the incident that led to the young man's death.

was he there? did he push the coach to
keep pushing him after initial signs? did
he fail in some manner there?

It's one thing to say you asked for better or more team doctors, but that doesn't give you carte blanche to act irresponsibly after your request was denied. in fact, some may argue just the opposite- if you know you have inadequate medical staff- better be damn sure about your practices.

Not saying he did- just saying that article in no way addresses what happened.

rootube said:

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I just skimmed the doc but this is finger pointing. Durkin claiming the S&C coach reported to an associate AD and not him sounds like baloney to me.

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Could be but don't you think the school would know if he's lying or not.

Durkin wasn't there the day it happened. The medical staff waited over an hour before calling for emergency services.

thanks

vander54 said:

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rootube said:

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I just skimmed the doc but this is finger pointing. Durkin claiming the S&C coach reported to an associate AD and not him sounds like baloney to me.

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Could be but don't you think the school would know if he's lying or not.

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Sure. I'm not saying he is guilty but this doc does not tell me he has no blame, it just says to me he may have avoided blame on a technicality. The head coach is responsible for the actions of the S&C. He obviously didn't intend to harm the player but he can't wash his hands of responsibility.

rootube said:

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vander54 said:

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rootube said:

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I just skimmed the doc but this is finger pointing. Durkin claiming the S&C coach reported to an associate AD and not him sounds like baloney to me.

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Could be but don't you think the school would know if he's lying or not.

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Sure. I'm not saying he is guilty but this doc does not tell me he has no blame, it just says to me he may have avoided blame on a technicality. The head coach is responsible for the actions of the S&C. He obviously didn't intend to harm the player but he can't wash his hands of responsibility.

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He definitely holds some responsibility for what happened. But he isn't a monster or a toxic coach.

I would prefer that we find someone who doesn't have this in his past, but I think Fisher keeps a pretty close eye on practice and how the program is run on the field.

I'm not sure you can assume that the HC has a great deal of control over S&C. The NCAA has gone to great lengths to limit contact between players and coaches (including the HC). Unless things have changed the S&C staff ends up with a lot of separation from the coaching staff and are largely in control in the offseason as a consequence. The HC makes too much money but he also is expected to maintain program discipline while deliberately being prohibited from being directly involved in the day to day of the athletes.

I am not educated about the Maryland story other than the basic facts. What I do know is that I was a Big12 athlete before attending A&M and our head coach and even position coaches were never present at our workouts and didn't have much input in what we did with the S&C staff.

I am not at all prepared or educated enough to give Durkin a pass, but my experience makes it fairly easy for me to believe that Durkin could easily have not known anything about what was happening at workouts.

TX_Aggie37 said:

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I am not educated about the Maryland story other than the basic facts. What I do know is that I was a Big12 athlete before attending A&M and our head coach and even position coaches were never present at our workouts and didn't have much input in what we did with the S&C staff.

I am not at all prepared or educated enough to give Durkin a pass, but my experience makes it fairly easy for me to believe that Durkin could easily have not known anything about what was happening at workouts.

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Thanks for the info

Jbob04 said:

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Hopefully this will help some of these pearl clutching "Ags" on here.

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Doubtful

I do not believe Durkin was involved and was negligent.

But to say he had no idea is asinine. You're telling me not one player went to the damn HC to complain about treatment from the S&C coach?

Durkin stated that per his contract, it was not his responsibility to oversee the S&C coach. Well then who the hells job was it? And how does a HC not know how strong or conditioned his players are during the offseason if he has no idea what that coach is doing?

Read what TX_Aggie37 said

vander54 said:

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Read what TX_Aggie37 said

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I did and agree that's it's possible. But, as a former college basketball player, my HC knew who worked with me and what the did on a daily basis. That includes S&C coach, tutors and nutritionist.

So, in Durkins situation, who's job was it to oversee the S&C coach? As sure as hell would like a job with no manager or appraisals from any supervisors. How does one get a job, raise or promotion if nobody knows what the hell that person is doing each day with student athletes?

Nino Brown said:

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vander54 said:

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Read what TX_Aggie37 said

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I did and agree that's it's possible. But, as a former college basketball player, my HC knew who worked with me and what the did on a daily basis. That includes S&C coach, tutors and nutritionist.

So, in Durkins situation, who's job was it to oversee the S&C coach? As sure as hell would like a job with no manager or appraisals from any supervisors. How does one get a job, raise or promotion if nobody knows what the hell that person is doing each day with student athletes?

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Durkin said the associate AD oversaw the S&C. He might have know the plan but had no clue about what was actually going on.

Typically, the AD's office is responsible to manage trainers, equipment managers, S&C coaches, etc.

As the parent of a Maryland OL during this time period I can tell you it's all total BULL ****. We don't want anything to do with Durkin.

vander54 said:

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Nino Brown said:

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vander54 said:

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Read what TX_Aggie37 said

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I did and agree that's it's possible. But, as a former college basketball player, my HC knew who worked with me and what the did on a daily basis. That includes S&C coach, tutors and nutritionist.

So, in Durkins situation, who's job was it to oversee the S&C coach? As sure as hell would like a job with no manager or appraisals from any supervisors. How does one get a job, raise or promotion if nobody knows what the hell that person is doing each day with student athletes?

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Durkin said the associate AD oversaw the S&C. He might have know the plan but had no clue about what was actually going on.

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Well it does make sense but I still feel it to be highly unlikely that none of the HC's players went to him to complain prior to incident.

The whole Maryland situation seems very Baylor-ish. But what I do know is that I've been a measly HC in high school basketball. And I never let anyone within the program work with one of my guys without a detailed daily report in regards to conditioning or weight training. Much less would I allow any belittling or verbal abuse to my guys that destroys team morale of the program.

So I guess that's DJ's bad for signing a contract like that. But regardless of how involved he could be with S&C I still find it hard to believe isn't getting electronic agendas or weekly reports in regards to HIS players that affect his income.

TX_Aggie37 said:

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I am not educated about the Maryland story other than the basic facts. What I do know is that I was a Big12 athlete before attending A&M and our head coach and even position coaches were never present at our workouts and didn't have much input in what we did with the S&C staff.

I am not at all prepared or educated enough to give Durkin a pass, but my experience makes it fairly easy for me to believe that Durkin could easily have not known anything about what was happening at workouts.

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Not every situstion can be viewed, thru the same lenses.

Seems like everyone forgets, Jimbo was Accontable, but NOT Responsible for ALL the actions at FSU. I seem to recall that Jimbo wasn't allowed to make all staff decisions. The Athletic Dept had friends, that Jimbo had to deal with. It's my opinion that the same thing happened when some crab claws got stolen.

While you may have influence in how they transpire or the message that is tryi g to be sent, you should not be Accountable for the things you are not responsible for. Perhaps when Durkin was hired they said "You don't get to choose your staff, only these positions. Want the job or not.
Maybe S&C was that way or maybe S&C had more than 1 sport to cover. IDK?

Maybe it was Durkin's message that the team was out of shape and couldn't finish games.... Which may have been a mixed message to the S&C program.

But you know if there have been vonversations w Durkin & Jimbo the topic was brought up.

Most S&C coaches train several sports so they are under supervision of the AD

P.U.T.U said:

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Most S&C coaches train several sports so they are under supervision of the AD

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This is also true. I can't speak to who was the direct supervisor of our S&C staff.

Jbob04 said:

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Hopefully this will help some of these pearl clutching "Ags" on here.

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ABATTBQq11 hardest hit.

Don't let the facts get in the way of the narrative.

I'm going to go through the details on a public message board.

But... certain facts were ignored and he was fired less than 24 hours after being reinstated.

Here are football reasons not too hire him...
His D sucks
He works the players so hard they are exhausted by October
Believes by-week is for working harder than August practice not recuperating (see statement above)
Here's what Jabrill Peppers has to say - https://www.si.com/college/2018/08/15/jabrill-peppers-dj-durkin-coaching-style-michigan-maryland

ned911 said:

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I'm going to go through the details on a public message board.

But... certain facts were ignored and he was fired less than 24 hours after being reinstated.

Here are football reasons not too hire him...
His D sucks
He works the players so hard they are exhausted by October
Believes by-week is for working harder than August practice not recuperating (see statement above)
Here's what Jabrill Peppers has to say - https://www.si.com/college/2018/08/15/jabrill-peppers-dj-durkin-coaching-style-michigan-maryland

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He still wasn't fired for the players death or any involvement of such. Durkin has great defenses, not sure where you got that from.

This is Jimbo's team, not Durkin's. Surely you understand that? I think it's time for you to let go of this hate and move on.

Both DJ Durkin and Rick Court were/are disciples/products of Urban Meyer staffs, so based on what we've seen from that tree, it absolutely wouldnt surprise me if they did some looney tunes *****

Why do people create accounts like this and then pretend to be someone they aren't?

Did you even read the article

Jbob04 said:

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Durkin wasn't there the day it happened. The medical staff waited over an hour before calling for emergency services.

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Check mate and EOT.

This a good hire