Does that speak to the amount of talent that Sherman was able to gather prior to Sumlin's arrival? I've seen bad coaches win just because of talent and I've seen great coaches win with no talent. Just an observation after Arizona's beat down tonight

You are just now figuring this out? That was evident in 2014!!!!!

Sherman is 10x the football coach Gumlin is. All Gumlin did was inherit the best OL in the country with the perfect combo. of Johnny and Kliff. As soon as Kliff left the offense started to tank. Once #2 was gone the wheels came completely off. And every day, not every season or every game but every day we got further away from a Sherman evaluated, recruited and developed talent the worse we got.

That was all a perfect storm to not win a natty. I mean, not too many coaches would inherit the talent Sumlin did and not win a natty.

Sumlin lost 4 games in one season (2013) with a once in a generational talent at QB.

Jarrin' Jay said:

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You are just now figuring this out? That was evident in 2014!!!!!

Sherman is 10x the football coach Gumlin is. All Gumlin did was inherit the best OL in the country with the perfect combo. of Johnny and Kliff. As soon as Kliff left the offense started to tank. Once #2 was gone the wheels came completely off. And every day, not every season or every game but every day we got further away from a Sherman evaluated, recruited and developed talent the worse we got.

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Feel free to plug in Coach O in place of Summy.

Sherman is an actual coach that developed players! Summy, not so much, it's all bubble gum and hip hop music.

I get the Sumlin hate. It's well-deserved. But let's not forget that Sherman also deserved to get fired.

to lose 70-7 to your rival Arizona State - that is just about as bad as it can get

That QB did not play one snap on Defense.

Sumlin wasn't great .... but Sherman sucked too. Went 9-4 and 7-6 with NFL talent across the board. Including a top 10 pick at QB and the best defensive player A&M has ever had

Also let's not forget ... Sherman likely would have started Showers over Manziel in 2012, and we wouldn't have had Kliff that season

texag101 said:

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I get the Sumlin hate. It's well-deserved. But let's not forget that Sherman also deserved to get fired.

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Sherman got fired after 3 seasons. If he were given that 4th he probably would have been around for a decade. Yes, the scoreboard inverted almost every second half, but I still feel bad for the man. He built a great team and given his resume and strategy (focus on building the lines): patience for a 4th year would have been appropriate.

tjack16 said:

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Sumlin wasn't great .... but Sherman sucked too. Went 9-4 and 7-6 with NFL talent across the board. Including a top 10 pick at QB and the best defensive player A&M has ever had

Also let's not forget ... Sherman likely would have started Showers over Manziel in 2012, and we wouldn't have had Kliff that season

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Completely agree. The 2011 season will go down as the most underwhelming in my 40 yrs of watching AFB. When you consider the talent on that team a 6-6 record capped off with the loss to Texas at home it was just sickening.

Sherman was certainly a better person than Sumlin but his teams had lots of penalties and poor conditioning. HIs game management was also piss poor. So many blown leads in 2nd half of that 2011 season. I would guess that Sherman probably would have gone 9-3 with that 2012 season even if he started Manziel as we would have been running the pro style offense as opposed to the Air Raid.

Had to double check the date of this post.

Muy said:

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Had to double check the date of this post.

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Wallowing in self-loathing is an always renewing Aggie Tradition!!!

Sherman is an excellent coach. Just not an excellent head coach.

Someone gonna have to breakdown the etymology of Gumlin to me... we've had some stretches for nicknames but- what?

Sherman couldn't handle pressure and couldn't see it. That was his downfall. The only way is to hire good shot callers and get out of his way.

Pressure did not seem to get to sumlin and he was willing to rely on his coordinators. Problem is that sumlin had to be pressured to hire up.

Or we could just turn the page

Sherman would have started Showers over Johnny. Not sure about how many halftime leads he would have blown though in 2012.

Sumlin sucked but to say that Sherman was better when he didn't want to play SEC games is quite a reach.

Sherman left us with an NFL caliber offense but not much on defense. Look at what we had after the 2012 class graduated.

...speaks to the superiority of the pac12 over the sec. [/esipn analyst]

it is amazing to me that Kevin Sumlin has been head coach at three universities and made millions of millions of dollars coaching football...he is a at best a mid major position coach.

Case Keenum , Dana Holgorsen made him what he was at UH, while playing with Art Briles recruits

Johnny Manziel and Kliff Kingsbury made him what he was at A&M while playing with Sherman recruits.

the 2012 team he was handed at A&M was loaded. The writing was on the wall in 2013 as a very talented A&M team was a 4-4 team in conference play

the men listed above should receive daily thank you text messages and emails from Sumlin as they have made him millions

Didn't Sherman go on to become a losing high school coach in Mass. and a losing CFL coach? Sumlin is doing worse, but both of them have been pretty terrible post-A&M.

We basically hired three turds in a row.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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texag101 said:

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I get the Sumlin hate. It's well-deserved. But let's not forget that Sherman also deserved to get fired.

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Sherman got fired after 3 seasons. If he were given that 4th he probably would have been around for a decade. Yes, the scoreboard inverted almost every second half, but I still feel bad for the man. He built a great team and given his resume and strategy (focus on building the lines): patience for a 4th year would have been appropriate.

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He did get a 4th year.

Sumlin has been fired

tjack16 said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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texag101 said:

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I get the Sumlin hate. It's well-deserved. But let's not forget that Sherman also deserved to get fired.

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Sherman got fired after 3 seasons. If he were given that 4th he probably would have been around for a decade. Yes, the scoreboard inverted almost every second half, but I still feel bad for the man. He built a great team and given his resume and strategy (focus on building the lines): patience for a 4th year would have been appropriate.

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He did get a 4th year.

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The results of his 4th year were absolutely unacceptable with the talent on that team.

Jarrin' Jay said:

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You are just now figuring this out? That was evident in 2014!!!!!

Sherman is 10x the football coach Gumlin is. All Gumlin did was inherit the best OL in the country with the perfect combo. of Johnny and Kliff. As soon as Kliff left the offense started to tank. Once #2 was gone the wheels came completely off. And every day, not every season or every game but every day we got further away from a Sherman evaluated, recruited and developed talent the worse we got.

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And Jay, it's my opinion that in the 2nd Half of the Opening Fla game with Big Lead, Sumlin & Kingsberry Did NOTHING to help win the Game.
JFF was out of tricks. You could see him shrug his shoulders like he needed help. He didn't have the game experience yet, and since THAT O-Line was Now a 2 Point Stance Line, we still didn't know how to run the ball. The Line didn't know YET to look at the Defenders Eyes and see that Johnny was doing something.

Did they change and put a hand down, and let THAT set of Maroon Goons Run Block and Burn Up the Clock.

NO. We were a spread offense. That's more important than winning. It still grates my @$$!!!!

tjack16 said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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texag101 said:

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I get the Sumlin hate. It's well-deserved. But let's not forget that Sherman also deserved to get fired.

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Sherman got fired after 3 seasons. If he were given that 4th he probably would have been around for a decade. Yes, the scoreboard inverted almost every second half, but I still feel bad for the man. He built a great team and given his resume and strategy (focus on building the lines): patience for a 4th year would have been appropriate.

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He did get a 4th year.

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Thanks for the correction. I'm not sure why I had 3 years lodged in my head. Perhaps 3 full recruiting classes? Regardless - he left a phenomenal team behind and I still wonder what a bit more patience would have produced.

Interestingly, the Jimbo contract is just that: mandated patience. A commitment to give him a full go at it.

Loftin made it very clear Sherman was not the right guy to lead us into the SEC. He talked about it at length on SEC Ready. It was time to move on.

texag101 said:

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I get the Sumlin hate. It's well-deserved. But let's not forget that Sherman also deserved to get fired.

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I disagree completely... Sherman was the first coach in 10 years that had the culture moving in the right direction... We were predictable at the end of Slocum's tenure, and Fran was terrible (couldn't even tell his Bama players directly he was leaving - told me all I needed to know right then)...

Sherman came in and developed talent and recruited... changing a culture and getting people to expect to win is hard work...

I don't believe Sherman would have had the season Sumlin had with JFF, but Sherman was a hell of a coach and turned the program around enough where we started to believe we were good again.

Jimbo has us believing again as well. I'm waiting for the meltdown on here if we don't get in the CFP... if we had mentioned CFP in August people would have said we're crazy... Orange Bowl this year - hell I'll take it and be excited for more next year.

Sumlin sucked. Sherman was only okay, but his offense was stuck in the 90s and the defense couldn't stop an offense with a pulse or tempo.

texag101 said:

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I get the Sumlin hate. It's well-deserved. But let's not forget that Sherman also deserved to get fired.

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Obviously happy where we are at, but if talking about don't forget stuff. Don't forget Sherman had a fraction of the money Jimbo currently has to hire good assistants. Everything is relative. We finally woke up and realized we need to spend money to make money.

Arizona needs to brace itself for the inevitable "racist handwritten note".

Sherman was worse than Franchione. Yeah, I said it.

Orangutan said:

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Sherman was worse than Franchione. Yeah, I said it.

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Fran wanted to use line of scrimmage play in an air raid conference. Might have worked on offense. But clearly did not on defense...and took too long on both sides of the ball.

I would prefer we hire for significant progress by the third year. I'm patient with Jimbo because I believe it takes time to fix especially defensive laxness and we had three straight that didn't value defense.

I hope we retain Elko and he and Jimbo get at least one NC together.

Sherman did his job as a more affordable and transitional type hire to rebuild the program and culture in a reasonable amount of time. Getting A&M from where they were in '08 to a shared division title and Cotton Bowl just two years later and eventually the best o-line in the country after his exit should always be remembered. Unfortunately 2011 and all those blown leads happened, and it became apparent he lacked in other critical areas.

Sumlin did okay for a while especially in recruiting and and then fell off a cliff. A&M should have handled the contract situation better in hinidsight especially when USC was interested. Maybe Jimbo wouldn't have been hired had they not been able to keep Sumlin.