supported him until this year. I thought that Sherman had a great core on offense, but needed someone to take over the defense. He never had a good defensive coordinator. That was his greatest weakness.

I did not think Sumlin was even a good hire. He road Sherman's guys for a couple of years and has done nothing of substance since. He was supposed to be an offensive quarterback guru, but to me he appears to have acquired that moniker using other people's recruits (Sherman's and Brille's).

We need a real game changer here this time. We either need a proven coach such as Jimbo, Stoops, Paterson, Petersen, Kelly, Etc. our someone like James Franklin, Matt Campbell or Scott Frost. Otherwise, we are are just pis......ing in the wind again. We have the best athletic facilities in the nation! We need to get the coach that will take it to Alabama and dethrone them and tu once and forever! We need to do this right and the BMA's need to keep their politics out of it.

ok

the Sumlin era was an improvement on the Sherman era

Was it? 59-0 and numerous beat downs at Kyle. Not much of an improvement and certainly not worth $30 million.

and one thing Sumlin did for which he deserves major, major credit..

when he took over the program, he did not come in as "mister hardcore tough guy" and crack the whip and run off a bunch of guys. That was a critical mistake that both Fran and Sherman made...and that led to disastrous first games and/or first seasons for each.

Sumlin recognized the talent that was here and made it work. Similar to when R.C. took over for the 1989 season.

it will be critical for the new coach in 2018 to handle things smoothly

c'mon now...the biggest home defeat in Kyle Field history occurred during the Sherman era in 2008 to OU.

and how about Sherman losing 62-14 in 2009 to a 6-6 Kansas State team. Ironically at one point A&M trailed in that game 59-0

RC knew the "talent." He was already a coach here. Sumlin got the job because he cracked three code on riding other people's successful recruiting at his last job.

W said:

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c'mon now...the biggest home defeat in Kyle Field history occurred during the Sherman era in 2008 to OU.

and how about Sherman losing 62-14 in 2009 to a 6-6 Kansas State team. Ironically at one point A&M trailed in that game 59-0

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Completely agree with W here. Can't forget Arkansas State, 0-5 against the SEC, and the entire 2011 season.

W said:

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the Sumlin era was an improvement on the Sherman era

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Not so sure about that one. Though Sherman lost some bad games it was early on when he was trying to clean up Fran's mess. After year two he never got stomped by anyone. Every game we played was at least entertaining. And he and his staff were able to identify diamonds in the rough in Manziel, Evans, Swope, etc. I agree that if we had just stepped up and paid money to a DC Sherman would have been very successful here.

OldShadeOfBlue said:

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W said:

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the Sumlin era was an improvement on the Sherman era

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Not so sure about that one. Though Sherman lost some bad games it was early on when he was trying to clean up Fran's mess. After year two he never got stomped by anyone. Every game we played was at least entertaining. And he and his staff were able to identify diamonds in the rough in Maziel, Evans, Swope, etc. I agree that if we had just stepped up and paid money to a DC Sherman would have been very successful here.

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do you remember the 2011 season?

technoviking said:

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OldShadeOfBlue said:

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W said:

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the Sumlin era was an improvement on the Sherman era

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Not so sure about that one. Though Sherman lost some bad games it was early on when he was trying to clean up Fran's mess. After year two he never got stomped by anyone. Every game we played was at least entertaining. And he and his staff were able to identify diamonds in the rough in Maziel, Evans, Swope, etc. I agree that if we had just stepped up and paid money to a DC Sherman would have been very successful here.

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do you remember the 2011 season?

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Did you not see the part about hiring a better DC? I think Sherman's biggest fault was not having a big budget and ****ty facilities.

Never really heard many say they thought Sumlin was a QB guru. I always thought he was regarded pretty highly as an offensive coach and a good play caller. I remember when he was on the staff previously under Slocum and Dino Babers was the OC. After the first 2-3 games the offense was completely stagnant and Slocum demoted Babers and gave Sumlin OC and play calling duties and the offense took off. Looked completely different under Sumlin.

W said:

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the Sumlin era was an improvement on the Sherman era

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It was, but it is probably closer than we think. It's too simplistic to just look at wins and losses under one coach and compare that to another. The fact is, the 08 and 09 seasons were a disgrace, but Sherman was basically just trying to get back to the surface after Fran left things in disarray. And the honest truth is, Sumlin's two most successful seasons came with Sherman's talent. That's just a fact.


All that to say, the 2011 season was the most humiliating experience imaginable, and Sherman should have been fired for that alone.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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technoviking said:

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OldShadeOfBlue said:

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W said:

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the Sumlin era was an improvement on the Sherman era

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Not so sure about that one. Though Sherman lost some bad games it was early on when he was trying to clean up Fran's mess. After year two he never got stomped by anyone. Every game we played was at least entertaining. And he and his staff were able to identify diamonds in the rough in Maziel, Evans, Swope, etc. I agree that if we had just stepped up and paid money to a DC Sherman would have been very successful here.

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do you remember the 2011 season?

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Did you not see the part about hiring a better DC? I think Sherman's biggest fault was not having a big budget and ****ty facilities.

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o i saw it. but i also saw the part where none of these what ifs happened and sumlin was hired in 2012, etc...

ABATTBQ11 said:

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technoviking said:

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OldShadeOfBlue said:

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W said:

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the Sumlin era was an improvement on the Sherman era

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Not so sure about that one. Though Sherman lost some bad games it was early on when he was trying to clean up Fran's mess. After year two he never got stomped by anyone. Every game we played was at least entertaining. And he and his staff were able to identify diamonds in the rough in Maziel, Evans, Swope, etc. I agree that if we had just stepped up and paid money to a DC Sherman would have been very successful here.

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do you remember the 2011 season?

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Did you not see the part about hiring a better DC? I think Sherman's biggest fault was not having a big budget and ****ty facilities.

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I'm going to take what was being his own ****ty offensive coordinator for $600 Alex...

sherman was scared of us going to the SEC. we would have been 6-6 average with him, instead of 8-4 average with sumlin.
Sumlin was an upgrade, but without JFF, is not the coach to take us to the next level.

no doubt Sumlin's best 2 seasons were the first two, but there were also some very nice wins in the last four years with full Sumlin rosters.

Sherman's greatest stretch was the 6 straight wins during the 2010 season. A&M played phenomenal football during that October-November run...led by Von and Tannehill...both Fran recruits/players

another way to look at it...

if the new coach takes over in 2018 and stuns Clemson at Kyle Field in September...is anyone going to give Sumlin credit for that?

I don't think so

W said:

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another way to look at it...

if the new coach takes over in 2018 and stuns Clemson at Kyle Field in September...is anyone going to give Sumlin credit for that?

I don't think so

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they will in about 2021 when the next round of fire everybody posts starts. i may be too optimistic about how long that will take.

Wonder how Sherman would have done with jff?

All he needed was a D.C. Been interesting

Sherman needed an OC most of all. At least as a sounding board to second guess his numerous second half implosions. Never saw someone abandon the run like he repeatedly did until Sumlin vs UCLA.

biobioprof said:

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W said:

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another way to look at it...

if the new coach takes over in 2018 and stuns Clemson at Kyle Field in September...is anyone going to give Sumlin credit for that?

I don't think so

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they will in about 2021 when the next round of fire everybody posts starts. i may be too optimistic about how long that will take.

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Yep. I am already thinking we should fire the next coach.

Sherman got his arse kicked by Arkansas St and there are goobers in here who somehow think he was a good coach. I can't understand it. His second half collapses were like the Ucla game every week. It was a joke and the debacle in our final game against tu was a perfect turd capper to the decade of doom.

cevans_40 said:

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Sherman got his arse kicked by Arkansas St and there are goobers in here who somehow think he was a good coach. I can't understand it. His second half collapses were like the Ucla game every week. It was a joke and the debacle in our final game against tu was a perfect turd capper to the decade of doom.

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This. Sherman made my BAS permanent. I've become constipated reading this thread about Sherman. Please stop.

I was not a fan of the Sumlin hire. I felt you could always hire a Sumlin. Why unceremoniously can Sherman for that hire?

But i supported the team and the coach.

I'd like to see us hire a proven coach if we can.

I wanted Larry Fedora instead of Sumlin. Thought he was a perfect fit. So glad we didn't hire him with the tar heels unraveling this year, and that I'm not making such decisions. I will keep my trap shut and trust the process this time. There are probably many intangibles in making the right hire. If it were easy, Alabama would have gotten it right the first time after the Bear, and Oklahoma after Switzer.

VikingNik said:

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Sherman needed an OC most of all. At least as a sounding board to second guess his numerous second half implosions. Never saw someone abandon the run like he repeatedly did until Sumlin vs UCLA.

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Agree. DeRuyter was fine as a DC. Sherman's problem is the he got lost in the play calling and missed the games bigger picture.

JST92 said:

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RC knew the "talent." He was already a coach here. Sumlin got the job because he cracked three code on riding other people's successful recruiting at his last job.

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Sumlin got the job because he was a drinking buddy of regent James Wilson, look it up it's all out on web!

W said:

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and one thing Sumlin did for which he deserves major, major credit..

when he took over the program, he did not come in as "mister hardcore tough guy" and crack the whip and run off a bunch of guys. That was a critical mistake that both Fran and Sherman made...and that led to disastrous first games and/or first seasons for each.

Sumlin recognized the talent that was here and made it work. Similar to when R.C. took over for the 1989 season.

it will be critical for the new coach in 2018 to handle things smoothly

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Yea, he had pizza parties at practice and movie nights instead, he should have been butt!!!

Yeah sure Freckles.

I think some of you missed the point of the original post and it is not that Sherman was a better coach, but that the Sumlin hire was not much of an upgrade and was politically motivated because of his association with Wilson. We can not afford to let that happen again.

I like Coach Sumlin but never did believe he was a good fit for the SEC style of play. The two things he did well in his 6 years are recruiting and figuring out Manziel is better as a QB than a defensive back (sorry Sherman). Outside of that, we spent too many years watching coach shuffle the deck of coaching cards (coordinators) to divert attention from the obvious - replace him.

RC was a great coach and is a good man of high moral character. But, he was losing the recruiting and talent battles his last few years (due to MBrown) and lack of facilities). There were yrs we were woefully short on Defensive players. Not sure all remember that his last 4 yrs were Sumin like, but against weaker teams...8-4, 7-5, 8-4, 6-6 (and his bowl record isn't impressive 3-8).

The point is that there is always a time to move along, but no guarantees when doing so.

Mack Brown recruited Johnny as a DB, not Sherman. Sherman recruited him as a QB.