are there some procedure violations where the refs would allow the play to continue and then give the D the option to accept or decline?

Dead ball penalties are actions that are illegal prior to the ball being legally snapped. These actions will result in the officials immediately shutting the play down:

False Start
Offsides (with contact)
Encroachment
Illegal Substitution
Illegal snap (double motion, jerk the ball, etc)
Delay

Live ball penalties are actions that aren't inherently illegal by themselves, but become illegal the moment the ball is snapped. The officials will let the play run and deal with penalties after:

Illegal motion
Illegal shift
Illegal formation (5 or more players in backfield)
Offsides


I didn't hit them all, but these are the major ones.

[This message has been edited by asf-07 (edited 10/6/2011 4:51a).]

"Illegal procedure" is a Dave South-ism.

The actual call is "false start"

To answer OP: (1) No. (2) Yes.

asf pretty much has it. Illegal procedure includes a number of things. False start is one of them.

quote:

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"Illegal procedure" is a Dave South-ism.

The actual call is "false start"

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You are correct, but it was called "illegal procedure" for many, many years.

Illegal procedure is a live ball foul. Usually it is having 5 or more in the back field.

Pre snap is as mentioned, false start, illegal sub, encroachment, delay.

Thanks. Reason I asked is that in my son's middle school game the ref called illegal procedure but let the play run and D declined it cause they didnt convert the PAT.

Now I can't remember if I actually heard those words or he signaled the rolling forearms (which would be false start).

There is no foul known as "illegal procedure" in the NCAA rulebook - nothing in today's game would ever be reported by the Referee as "illegal procedure". There are procedural violations, such as the ones I listed above. If the official gave the rolling arms signal, it means one of three things - false start, illegal formation, or offensive encroachment (offensive player lined up in or beyond the neutral zone). If the play was shut down immediately, it was either a false start or offensive encroachment. If the play continued and the defense was given the option to accept or decline the penalty, it was for an illegal formation.

[This message has been edited by asf-07 (edited 10/6/2011 7:05p).]

thanks.

you got it