I've seen it several places and I admit I don't know the full story....

SWC broke down to become the Big XII. Baylor got invited to the AQ with more $$ because of Ann Richards, while TCU, UH and SMU got screwed and were sent packing. Baylor didn't think twice about them when they were to benefit.

Basically, the Southwest Conference included us, Baylor, tu, TCU, Rice, Houston, and others.


When the Big 12 formed, us and tu were easily going to be in, and I think the thinking at the time was TCU.

Ann Richards (Baylor grad) and the Lt. gov basically strong armed us and tu into making sure Baylor came along.

There was no concern by Baylor for Rice, UH, or TCU to be included. That's why their statements today about "Texas unity" are laughable.

If you remember last year, when TCU was still part of the MWC, they made a move to block Baylor from joining if the Big12 fell apart. Still some bad blood I guess.

From my understanding, short version is that the old SWC basically ended in 1994 when A&M, texas, tech, and baylor all left to join and form the Big 12. Baylor was not really going to be included in the process, but got help from Austin because Baylor grad and Governor Ann Richards lobbied for them to be included. UH, TCU, and SMU were all also a part of the SWC and were all kicked to the curb to fend for themselves.

Yeah but did Baylor have a choice or were they "forced" in? I ask because I had a discussion with a co-worker and the topic came up and I didn't feel adequate enough to defend my point....as far as them "screwing" the other teams, or did they even have a choice, etc.

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When the Big 12 formed, us and tu were easily going to be in, and I think the thinking at the time was TCU.

Ann Richards (Baylor grad) and the Lt. gov basically strong armed us and tu into making sure Baylor came along.

There was no concern by Baylor for Rice, UH, or TCU to be included. That's why their statements today about "Texas unity" are laughable.

If you remember last year, when TCU was still part of the MWC, they made a move to block Baylor from joining if the Big12 fell apart. Still some bad blood I guess.

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A couple key errors in there along with some points of my own.

1- It was going to be 10 teams with tech and bu left behind. The Big2 had decided the SWC could not compete well enough financially to be a suitable launching pad for their athletic aspirations.

2- Bob Bullock (Richards did nothing) who was TT undergrad and BU law was Lt. Gov and got them in.

3- TCU was never in the picture, nor were the other 3 left behind SWC teams. TCU had been awful since 1960 at the time. UH never had fan support despite a couple nice runs. BU and Tech were on par if not better overall than those left behind.

4- The SWC was dead, blaming BU or Tech for blowing up the SWC would be like blaming OSU or Tech for blowing up the B12 had the original P16 formed - They were along for the ride and had little choice but to hold on for the ride as they could do nothing to stop tu or atm

5- BU & TTU's only choices were a- come with or b- get out of the way and watch the SWC die


[This message has been edited by Sam84 (edited 8/18/2011 11:23a).]

Baylor did screw the other teams for sure. It should have been and would have been UH or TCU, not Baylor. Baylor didn't think twice about it.

They got in based on political pressure from alumni. It meant more money and prestige, so they had no problem kicking the others to the curb.

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Yeah but did Baylor have a choice or were they "forced" in?

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They weren't forced in. No school in their right mind would go to CUSA over the Big 12 when it was first formed. They wanted in, bad.

Read this...

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=75976

We should have been in the SEC when the SWC broke up.


If at first you don't SECede, try, try again.

Very simple, someone correct me, if I am wrong, and I will stand corrected, from what I remember, back when the old SWC went defunct circa 1995, TAMU, UT, and TT were clearly going to automatically be joined with some members of the Big 8 to form the new Big XII. Baylor was never on the radar screen to be included with the "big 3" mentioned above. However, the so called former governor, Ann Richards, who was a Baylor grad, basically mandated that they be included with the new transition. Of course, benefitting from it all, Baylor had NO issues with leaving UH, SMU, Rice, and TCU in the dust. But, now the shoe is on the other foot, and now all of a sudden "tradition" and "Texas unity" means something to them. Basically, because UT and TAMU pay their bills for them by filling their stadium up, when they go to Waco. With the hopefully soon to be departure of TAMU to the SEC, and possible Missouri defection (along with the NU and CU defections last year) spell the beginning of the end for the Big XII. They know, if that happens, they are headed right where they should have landed back in 1996, with their equal perennial "wanna be relevant" counterparts in Conference-USA.

[This message has been edited by NOLA_AGGIE_FAN (edited 8/18/2011 11:31a).]

[This message has been edited by NOLA_AGGIE_FAN (edited 8/18/2011 11:34a).]

UH had a couple good runs but was horrible at the decision time and never had any big fanbase. They were never considered and frankly if they jumped anyone based on the on-the-field record at the time it would have been tech. BU's problems started with a new AD being hired and making repeated blunders shortly after the B12 formed.

Baylor WAS NOT forced in. They bullied their way in with no consideration for anyone but themselves (ie bye bye TCU/SMU/Rice which were their 80+ year rivals/brothers).

I think some of you are forgetting or are too young to remember that Baylor had a better program than everyone in the SWC besides tu and A&M. I think they even had more wins in the last 20 years of the SWC than tu. I don't believe it had anything to do with Ann Richards.

UT and A&M were going to be the only members from the SWC. Bob Bullock, NOT Ann Richards, got wind of this and 'persuaded' UT and A&M officials to push for the inclusion of Baylor and Tech.

There is some lingering rumor from the TCU side that they were slated to be the 4th team instead of Baylor but there was a switcheroo at the last minute. How legit is this version, I do not know. The excellent SA Express-News series which is the most detailed account of how the Big 12 formation happened does not mention this TCU angle in my recollection.

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I don't believe it had anything to do with Ann Richards.

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Not her by herself, but the Lt. Gov played a strong hand in it and that is well-known capital cocktail history.

In hindsight, would TCU have been a better fit in the conference? I am just wonder what Aggies think. Granted - the Big12 was still doomed to fail in the long run.

The Bob Bullock people are on the money...

Poetic justice really when you think of what Baylor has(not) done since they forced their way in.......

TCU never had a chance to be included in the Big XII. They had been terrible in football and basketball for years and years before the breakup.

Bullock forced both Baylor and Tech into the Big XII, despite how many people throw Richard's name around. The decision was not between whether to include UH or TCU or Baylor with Tech, it was whether Tech and BU were going or not. The UH/TCU angle came from grads of those schools playing the "What if" game of why they should have been included instead. It was never an option, just a hypothetical.

TCU would have been so much worse than Baylor in the Big XII. Baylor was behind on facilities in athletics at the beginning of the Big XII, but TCU was behind Baylor. Even now, TCUs facilities don't compare to Baylor's. TCU would have faced the murderer's row that Baylor faced in the Big XII South and flopped as badly as Baylor did.

That said, what TCU has done since the breakup of the SWC is admirable. They fought tooth and nail and gotten back to an AQ conference. Good for them. They are still a one- (maybe two- with baseball) trick pony, depending on football for all their AD credibility. Their other sports would all finish near the bottom, if not at the bottom, of the conference rankings.

By "forced" in I meant politically or what have you...not as in "against their will" cause obviously they WANTED in the Big 12.

Agree Pedro. Gov. Ann only cared about her Lady Longhorns. She saw how well the football thing worked for Bill Clements. The new conference needed 12 teams in order to have a championship game. Tech was an easy call, and Baylor's facilities were superior to the other schools. TCU was bad, SMU was trying to recover from the Death Penalty and could not fill up a 20,000 seat stadium, Rice had no desire to be a league with Nebraska, OU, Colorado(a huge power at the time), UT and A&M, and Houston's had troulbe giving away tickets to Cougar games.

Bullock pulled strings to get one school into the Big 12, but it was not for Tech or Baylor. That school was A&M. The Aggies were set to go to the SEC, but Bullock pulled the strings to allow construction of Reed Arena and a new system wide phone system.

baylor was pretty darn good in the 80's. Doesn't surprise me they got the nod over Houston and TCU at that time.