I was wondering who you guys consider the biggest hyped player that never amounted to squat for Texas or ATM? All current players need ot be excluded as they still can contribute.

I'd say for Texas the list includes:
Edwin Simmons
Jason Burelson
Lovell Pickney (beat up SMU a bunch but sucked in most games)
Steve Clements (wussy transferred)



I'd say the list for ATM includes:
Lance Pavlas
Brandon Stewart
Trent Driver (played ok, but was he ever as good as hype)


Any comments?

I would think Texas' would be Shay Morenz but James Brown did well for you guys.
Driver may have disappointed but the guy who played in front of him, although ranked, overachieved. Driver also came in with some heavy baggage so I'm kind of glad at the way that one turned out. I think Stump was a bigger disappointment than Pavlas or Stewart but that turned out OK in the long run too.

I can't put a guy who won a Big XII championship in dramatic fashion in this group, so no Stewart here.

For the Ags -- Jason Frederick.

For the sips -- Shea Morenz? Montrell Flowers?

Do we have to wait until after this season to say Simms?

A&M: Sherrod Wyatt (ol' 1 ear)

Texas: Bryan Johnson

"Ester, you so ugly I could stick your face in dough and make GOrilla cookies."

Driver and Wyatt are right up there. Jim Brady would be up there. Danny McCray too. My biggest personal disappointment was Tommy Preston - I was told by a 12th Man Kickoff member that I was friends with that Preston could throw it 70 yards off his back foot, but couldn't read a defense to save his life. I don't think he ever touched the field, transferred to Sam Houston and didn't even play there. Too bad for Randy Simmons tearing up that knee. Remember that he came in more highly touted than Darren Lewis.

For t.u it would have to be Burleson. He was supposed to be the second coming.

[This message has been edited by AggieDave (edited 6/5/2002).]

Randy Simmons, Tommy Preston, Trent Driver, and Roylin Bradley all failed to live up to hype, but I believe each of these players were severely hampered by injuries.

Personally, I don't think we can say any recent QB has truly been a bust since we have had perennial offensive scheme problems, not to mention a revolving door of OCs and QB coaches. And Stewart is probably my favorite A&M QB since Murray. He had the skills, but having Ensminger shouting in his ear for the entire 96 season surely had an adverse effect on his development.

If I were to pick just one disappointment, I'd have to say Toombs. I know most people would disagree with my pick due to a large amount of success he had. I just think with his build and capabilities, he could have helped our offense much more taking on his blocking responsibilities. Not doing so hurt our entire offensive scheme and production. Coming out of HS he was heralded as a true blocking FB. None of his off-field problems weigh in on my pick, but his leadership as a senior almost kept me from picking him. I still wish him the best and hope he fulfills his dream in the pros.

The bad thing about picking these lists, is that you don't always know what kind of hurdles players encounter from coaches or other influences that are out of their control. Toombs and D. Hall are the only examples of players that come to mind where their attitude had an adverse effect on the team.

talk to anyone who actually played and they'll tell you brandon stewart was the best QB they've seen.

we flat out ruined the guy...in the system we run now (sorry, ran in 2000), he'd be a hell of a player.

I'd have to say for the sips: Pickney and Simmons, for us...Pullig.

morrisbrown...

I think the same could be said for Pullig. He was a stud when he played for Deer Park. Then he came here and had to learn a dumbed down offense.

As for Texas...Shea Morenz.

I also think that Branndon Stewart would've looked incredible in our 2000 offense. I've always liked the guy; hell of a passer. I don't really blame our QBs for lack of offensive production, it's more of a system and elsewhere personnel situation.

Mark Farris is obviously better than 2001 would tell you. Branndon Stewart was better than 1996 would tell you, and he got high vindication with the Big XII game in '98.

I think Driver was disappointing a bit, but then again who knew that a phenomenal player named Dat Nguyen would step up into the fray?

I love that some 4 years starters on this list. Any recruit that comes and starts for 4 years cannont be a bust. Pullig and upset?! Like it or not, he was one the best passing and winningest QB we ever had.

I really didn't mean to imply that Pullig was a disappointment. He was a hard working quarterback that led us to many wins. But I don't think anyone can deny his potential was unfulfilled in the offense he ran.

A classmate of mine was Brandon's brother-in-law. As I was working on my second degree, is when Brandon transferred in(Actually I finished the semester before he arrived). He told me that Brandon was the real deal. He used to work out with him during the summer and said he had a gun for an arm. He said that he would break Murray's passing records if he stays healthy. After watching the first game against BYU, hell, I believed his hype about his brother-in-law. Then came usl, and the rest is history. Like others here, I can't really dog the guy, he did win the big one for A&M. Now, all I do is bug Keith for hypeing him so much. Someone mentioned Randy Simmons, not a bust, tore his knee up pretty bad which caused his down fall. TU's biggest disappointment, Shay. But I would also throw in Simms. I know the jury is still out, but in three years he has not lived up to the hype, unless you count his record against A&M and the one quarter he had against them, which many sips seem to point to.

I know a lot of UT Vol fans and even a few analysts actually felt , at the time, that Stewart outperfomed P. Manning on the field during their freshman seasons at UT. Who knows what would've happened had Stewart stayed at UT or transferred to a school that knew how to develop a QB (like Florida). Compare what Peyton went on to do at UT and where he is relative to Stewart today and I think you can safely say that Stewart digressed here at A&M.

Whether this was bad coaching, poor offensive scheme, lack of surrounding talent, or simply that Stewart wasn't as good as a lot of folks thought are all points for debate.

"Ain't no sunshine when she's gone..."

Roylin was a good LB, but did not live up to the billing.

Stewart gave us the highs and lows.

Toombs has the game, but needed counseling (too young upstairs)

TheRocketGuy.com/aggies.asp

For A&M: Lance Pavlas, Jason Frederick, George Smith (for many reasons)

For Texas: Edwin Simmons, Shea Morenz, Montrell Flowers

Roylin Bradley started for 3 years and while he did not live up to his potential, he was a steady, dependable player. Hardly a bust.

I almost put Trent Driver on the list, but he did contribute quite a bit. He obviously never lived up to the billing. I guess Pavlas contributed as well, but he was all-World and never really worked out.

Don't you guys ever read books?...

The OBVIOUS A&M underachiever of all time HAS to be the Sugarland Express.......Kenneth Hall, period. No one else comes close.

t.u. underachievers of recent times would have to include Shea Morenz, Edwin Simmons, and perhaps Chris Simms, depending on his last year.

"Recall.....Step off on Hullabaloo..."

I seem to remember Butch Hadnot at tu getting a lot of hype as the next Earl Campbell. Can't recall, maybe he had one good season (or one or two good games?) but from what I can recall, he didn't ultimately live up to the billing. Did he end up transferring?

Ken Hall? Are you kidding me? He wasn't one of A&M's biggest busts, A&M was probably the biggest failure for HIM. Bryant was the one that screwed up big-time.

I looked up "hype" in my dictionary.

I already knew what it meant, its spelling and how to use it correctly in a complete sentence, but I was interested in its precise definition.

hype (verb) 1: put on, deceive 2: to promote or publicize extravagantly

hype (noun) 1: deception 2: promotional publicity of an extravagant or contrived kind

So, according to definition, it's should be no surprise when expectations based the put ons and deceptions otherwise know as "hype" are not met.

I enjoy discussion and reading about players and what happens in their careers as much as anybody, but failure to live up to "hype" isn't failure at all, because it's what was most likely to happen all the time.

That's why, as we all know, that recruiting is best based on experienced evaluation.

It saddens me to see Aggie athletes spoken of as FAILURES because they didn't live up to the hype.

They deserve better.

Of course, those players who go to schools with less discerning and less loyal fans deserve whatever derogatory labels that anyone happens to stick on them.



Gig 'em, FAST FRED '65.

Before the world wide web, village idiots usually stayed in their own village.

[This message has been edited by FAST FRED (edited 6/5/2002).]

yeah, I forgot about Shea Morenz. He has to be up there for us.

Sorry to profess some Aggie ignorance, who was Jason Frederick? That name sounds real familiar.

Who was Kenneth Hall?

The Butch Hadnot story could be a made for tv movie. He had a great start and looked like a world beater against ousucks, but then something happened and he first tried to transfer to A&M. That was a stupid thing to try b/c he'd have to sit for 2 years before going on the field. Then, he ended up playing for a semi-pro team or going to training camp for a CFL team or something to lose his eligibility alltogether. Stupid.

The asked DKR how Butch compared to Earl. DKR said "When Earl ran, snot flew. I haven't seen any snot flying yet."

nu awlins ag hit the nail on the head with Branndon Stewart. He had so much build up before stepping foot on campus that he was doomed for failure. The kid played his heart out at BYU and believe it or not, the Wrecking Crew (and our very, very young secondary that everyone worried about against BYU) let that one slip away. On one play in Provo, Branndon was falling back on one foot and heaved the ball about 45 yards down field on a perfect spiral in a location where only the Aggie receiver could catch the ball.

After the BYU game, I was ready to watch Branndon shine. Of course, that never really happened because of USL. That game broke his spirit and then RC's offensive genius took over from there.

There have just been too many "stud" high school QB's (Pavlas, Pullig, Granger, Preston, Stewart, McCown, Farris) to crash and burn at A&M for it to be coincidence. The offensive gameplan in College Station has destroyed them all except for Bucky.

[This message has been edited by 12th Man Ag (edited 6/5/2002).]

For the Ags I want to add Donte Hawkins. Donte was the first big time receiver we recruited and, as I recall, he was a solid contributor his firs two years. Then he got booted for repeated discipline problems and we never got to see what he was capable of. I felt like he could have been a link to better receiving talent a few years before Ferguson had he kept his head on straight, but he couldn't.

"Your function is to send money to the government, not to understand what the government does with it."

- Dave Barry

12th Man

Take 3 off of your list of those that crashed and burned.

Granger was a 1st round pick in the baseball draft after his sophomore year in football, which was his junior year in baseball. That was also Pullig's fish year, but surely RC knew Jeff was not returning hence the rush to get Pullig PT. If Jeff is a QB only, you don't know what he would have done with the other two years he was here, he might have done very well. To say he crashed and burned after really only one season as the starter (remember he backed up Bucky his RS-fish year) is unfair to Jeff and RC.

Take Tommy Preston off of that list. Preston hurt his back and never let it heal before trying to play again. Or so that is what I was told by a friend on the team at that time. You can't blame a coach for a player not doing what he has to be be and remain healthy.

Take Farris off. As a rule I never write off guys that are still here because there is still time to contribute. If Farris throws for 3000 yards and 30/10 TD/INT, will you say he crashed and burned? No, you won't. It's irrational to argue that a guy with a year left, especially a guy that has shown a lot of good tools in his time here, is a crash and burn victim.

The rest of your list I'll leave intact, and even concede that it does a lot to prove your point!

"Your function is to send money to the government, not to understand what the government does with it."

- Dave Barry

Jason Frederick was a top 30 national recruit from Cy Falls high school. He was in the '99 class that was rated consensus top 5 nationally. I think he was a LB in HS, but slated for SS in college (could be the other way around though).

He was kicked off the team during fall practice his freshman year (I'm 99% sure it was during fall practice) for breaking team rules. I think he transferred to Sam Houston, but as far as I know he hasn't done anything there either.

Sips: Simms

Ags: Joe Mack King

"I'd rather be a Texas Aggie"

I put forth the name of Ken Hall because he quit the program. He was in the same class as John David Crow, entering in the fall of 1954. In that era of 1 platoon football a world class running back like Hall did not fit as well in Bryant's system. Hall had a few stellar games in '55 as a Soph, but got a bit hurt and then just quit. Had he put more into the defense side of his playing time and NOT quit, it might have been HIM getting the Heisman in '57 instead of John David Crow. We will never know because he did quit. Other guys stayed, he did not. Which is why I consider his career at A&M in the bust category. Nothing personal, he went on to have a good life and I have both heard him speak in person and eaten in his BBQ place in Fredericksburg. Number 31 could have been an Aggie legend, but just became a footnote. Life is not fair.

"Recall.....Step off on Hullabaloo..."

NO WAY on Joe Mack King!

He relieved Lex James as QB part of '70 and took over the job midway thru '71 after the Ags started 1-5. Joe got the Ags 4 straight wins, including a 17-9 major upset of the Piglets up in Arkansas and a big time 4th quarter comeback against Rice in Houston. The bubble burst against t.u. at Kyle on a dreary day, but as a 5th year Vet student, Job Mack King was a real hero that fall.

"Recall.....Step off on Hullabaloo..."

LOYAL,

I will agree with you on Granger and Preston. Of course, I think baseball did more to mess up Granger as a QB than anything else. He could throw a wicked curve ball, but it didn't have the same effect when doing it with a football.

On Farris, I agree with you if he turns it around this year. Unfortunately, the deterioration of his mental toughness from 2000 to 2001 was quite obvious. I do not think that is a result of the injuries and such that factored into many of our other problems. Mark appears to have lost the edge. I really do hope I am wrong, but I don't see him breaking out this year. I just think our QB's get broken in RC's system. It is not their fault, but the system. I even noticed this in the 1995 Alamobowl that was on ESPN Classic a couple of days ago. We would air it out 30+ yards on 1st down and when it went incomplete, we would return to the off tackle run.

I really think that is the biggest problem with our passing game. We either throw it 30+ yards or 3 yards. We do a tremendously poor job with the 10-20 yard passes. And if I have to endure another year of receivers running 6 yard routes on 3rd and 8, I don't know what I will do.

quote:

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he did win the big one for A&M

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Branndon Stewart won us a national championship? Where was I??????

What about Toya Jones? Olympic Speed, started as a true freshman, then never saw him after that.

A few more for the horns:

- Shea Morenz
- Antawn Kirk-Hughes - this guy was the #1 HS player in Texas in 98 and never even made all conference
- Joe Walker from Northshore - ruined by UCLA
- Montrell Flowers was over-hyped by the media, he was a RB in high school

I don't think we can put any QB in that category. Manning would have been a failure in our system!