Juneteenth

1,942 Views | 18 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by BQ78
pmart
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Since this just became an official federal holiday I thought I would make a post about it. As you may already know, this is the celebration of the June 19, 1865 announcement of General Order No. 3 by Union Army general Gordon Granger in Galveston, proclaiming and enforcing freedom of enslaved people in Texas.



The order read as follows:
"Head Quarters District of Texas

Galveston Texas June 19th 1865.

General Orders

No. 3.

The people of Texas are informed that, in accordance with a proclamation from the Executive of the United States, all slaves are free. This involves an absolute equality of personal rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves, and the connection heretofore existing between them becomes that between employer and hired labor.

The freedmen are advised to remain quietly at their present homes and work for wages. They are informed that they will not be allowed to collect at military posts and that they will not be supported in idleness either there or elsewhere.

By order of Major General Granger

F.W. Emery

Major A.A. Genl."

Of course this did not reach all enslaved peoples in the state immediately, which numbered around 250,000, but is the date that became the traditional date to celebrate "Emancipation Day".

The following link is a quick listen of an interview given in 1949 in Hempstead from a first hand account of the reaction to the news.
https://www.npr.org/2015/06/19/415809476/juneteenth-marks-day-slaves-in-texas-were-told-they-were-free

" LAURA SMALLEY: We didn't know where to go. Mom and them didn't know where to go. You see, after freedom broke, they started just, like, to turn some of them out, you know? We didn't know where to go. They turned us out just like, you know, you turn out cattle (laughter), I'd say."

I have also heard that day and reaction referred to as "The Great Scatter", as many newly freed people began to look for friends and family members that may have been sold to other farms.

This celebration started as a primarily Texas one, the Great Migration helped spread it throughout the US and now is a federal holiday. It is good to see a Texas tradition spread across the US.
cbr
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AG
All of this. All the fight and tears and death and sacrifice, all the dreams of freedom and equality, all of it through all of history, was wasted if we don't change the course we're on now.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
cbr said:

All of this. All the fight and tears and death and sacrifice, all the dreams of freedom and equality, all of it through all of history, was wasted if we don't change the course we're on now.


A to the men!
pmart
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Changing course happens often in history, choosing the right course is the more rare thing. I like learning about history, because in part, it gives us a chance to learn from past mistakes. I would say the mistakes we could learn from here is not only slavery (yes, I know it existed for thousands of years), but also slavery based on color with no tangible way out. Creating a class system in part based on skin color, something that I would say still affects us today. But more egregiously we contradicted what we said this country is all about "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
cbr
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AG
pmart said:

Changing course happens often in history, choosing the right course is the more rare thing. I like learning about history, because in part, it gives us a chance to learn from past mistakes. I would say the mistakes we could learn from here is not only slavery (yes, I know it existed for thousands of years), but also slavery based on color with no tangible way out. Creating a class system in part based on skin color, something that I would say still affects us today. But more egregiously we contradicted what we said this country is all about "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

That was getting, and basically was fixed.

Now we are moving to a new dystopian dark age of orwellian big tech communist elites, and creating racial divides that were almost gone in order to get there. The enlightenment was humanity's only chance at greatness. Expanding its opportunities to everyone was a good thing. It progressed slowly from the 1830's until its derailing by the ruling class in the 1960's, but people were making it work pretty well anyway.

However, strong, united, educated, self sufficient people cant be exploited by a cemented ruling class, and that fact explains everything that has been happening for the last few decades, other than the brief derailing of the ival office puppet parade from 2016-20.
pmart
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I appreciate the discussion, but I think we may be straying from the original topic. If you are Texan, I think you can be proud that a Texas tradition is being recognized throughout the nation. If you American, I think you can be proud to celebrate a wrong in our country being corrected, even if it was just the first step.

From a historical perspective, something I was surprised by is that the plan for AFTER emancipation seemed mostly nonexistent. It didn't seem like anyone really knew what to do. I know there are many on here that are very knowledgeable on the events of the Civil War, do you have anything to add about this event?
Jabin
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Great question.

I wonder if Lincoln did have a plan but it died with him in Ford's Theater?

I do have the impression that politics after the War, and especially the politics of Reconstruction, were a hot mess. There was very little consensus in the North and many only wanted a chance to make a quick buck off of the South. Plus, any plan that smacked of going light on the South was DOA (see Johnson's impeachment).

And the South didn't help its own cause much. From reading Grant's biography, he was very frustrated with the South because many in it refused to acknowledge that they had just lost the war. Many tried to keep on doing exactly what they'd been doing before, including maintaining slavery in the guise of "share cropping".

What the U.S. needed after the Civil War, but unfortunately did not have or even want, was a George Marshall who could work to heal the wounds and bind the nation back together. In many ways, the issues that led to the Civil War have never been fully resolved. I had a ConLaw prof in law school that used to say that many of those issues, such as states rights, were decided on the battlefield. But I think he was wrong. Although those arguments were silenced for a long, long time, they were never actually resolved.
Quad Dog
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AG
I saw this the other day. It's a great collection of historic Juneteenth celebration pictures.
https://texashighways.com/travel-news/the-history-of-juneteenth-in-photos/
cbr
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AG
Agreed. I do think they lacked a plan, largely because lincoln did it mostly for other reasons. Huge mistake, if theyd have actively integrated african americans before ww1, the government/international ruling elite would not have been in position to exploit them.

Anyway, good post.
pmart
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Quad Dog said:

I saw this the other day. It's a great collection of historic Juneteenth celebration pictures.
https://texashighways.com/travel-news/the-history-of-juneteenth-in-photos/

Thanks for sharing! I also liked the link to the interviews of those who lived through slavery towards the end of slideshow.
pmart
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cbr said:

Agreed. I do think they lacked a plan, largely because lincoln did it mostly for other reasons. Huge mistake, if theyd have actively integrated african americans before ww1, the government/international ruling elite would not have been in position to exploit them.

Anyway, good post.

Below is a quote from a letter written by Lincoln that coincides with what you are saying about Lincoln's motivation.
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/lincoln-reveals-plan-to-free-slaves-july-22-1862-225833
pmart
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Good input. I am not saying he was a General Marshal, but General Sherman did issue the 40 acres (the mule came later) order after meeting with black ministers asking them what they want for their people after the war. Of course it was overturned by Johnson as you inferred.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/the-truth-behind-40-acres-and-a-mule/

Interestingly enough, there was some land given to freed people and not overturned. The native tribes that sided with the confederacy were required to provide land to their slaves in Oklahoma. This attributed to the success of Greenwood ("Black Wallstreet").
https://time.com/5954759/slavery-in-indian-territory/
BQ78
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AG
The government set up collective farms for the ex-slaves, during the war but after the war many of the title holders of the lands sued in the courts to get it back and in almost every case won their land back and the former slaves were kicked off their farms.
pmart
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While researching nations that had already abolished slavery by this time, I noticed many compensated slave owners for freeing their slaves. The British government did, at least partially in the 1830's. France forced Haiti to pay them for their freedom that they already fought and won. I wondered if the US ever attempted to do the same and found the following, " On April 16, 1862, President Lincoln signed the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act. This law prohibited slavery in the District, forcing its 900-odd slaveholders to free their slaves, with the federal government paying owners an average of about $300 (equivalent to $8,000 in 2020) for each."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensated_emancipation

Is this something you have come across before? It seems like they made the same proposal to a couple of the Union slaveholding states and were rejected and it was never proposed again.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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pmart said:

While researching nations that had already abolished slavery by this time, I noticed many compensated slave owners for freeing their slaves. The British government did, at least partially in the 1830's. France forced Haiti to pay them for their freedom that they already fought and won. I wondered if the US ever attempted to do the same and found the following, " On April 16, 1862, President Lincoln signed the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act. This law prohibited slavery in the District, forcing its 900-odd slaveholders to free their slaves, with the federal government paying owners an average of about $300 (equivalent to $8,000 in 2020) for each."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensated_emancipation

Is this something you have come across before? It seems like they made the same proposal to a couple of the Union slaveholding states and were rejected and it was never proposed again.


It is my understanding that Lincoln had tried to get Congress to authorize a program where slave holders would be paid $400(I think) for each freed slave. His thought was that it was a large sum of money but it would be cheaper than continuing the war. It was rejected.

I also found out that Maryland voted and freed their slaves in 1864.
Jabin
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I doubt if the slave owners could ever have been fully compensated for their slaves. I read an academic article that addressed that issue and the most valuable asset that most slaveowners had was their slaves, worth far more than even their land. Compensating them in full for their slaves was far beyond the economic means of the federal government at that time. There was no federal income tax and the federal budget was tiny compared to today.
BQ78
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AG
Early in the war Lincoln was concerned about it for the border states like Kentucky, Missouri and Maryland. But when Missouri and Maryland ended it before the war was over, Lincoln went full speed ahead with the 13th amendment. He didn't mind stepping on Kentucky's toes over the issue, the one state that in 1861 he said, "I hope God is on my side, but I must have Kentucky." In 1865 they didn't matter anymore. The 13th amendment passed and Kentucky never ratified it until 1976, nor did the slave masters of Kentucky get any compensation.
Rabid Cougar
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AG
Ahem.... Delaware: February 12, 1901

Kentucky ....March 18, 1976


Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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Rabid Cougar said:

Ahem.... Delaware: February 12, 1901

Kentucky ....March 18, 1976




Does Delaware even actually exist? I think it a fantasy place created for electoral votes.
BQ78
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AG
Do you know what Della wears?

Her New Jersey, ha ha, dad joke for you.
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