JABQ04 said:

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Foir GGGG uncles all with 5th Texas. (Two with Co K and two with Co F).

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Very, very cool. Very few Texans can actually claim membership in the Texas Brigade. All of my direct relatives were from Alabama and South Carolina. And then there are those ruffians from Illinois.....

The wife's family was still in Naples, Italy and Ireland.

See where several Maryland politicians want to remove the Lee statue from the National Battlefield?

Saw that. Planning a trip with my brother next year back to Gettysburg with a stop at Antietam. Disappointed we couldn't swing it earlier this year.

We have some Alabama blood too. And one who wore the blue from Illinois. Can't find too much on him but he is my GGGF

GGGG Uncle, 1SG John C Beard, Co K 5th, TX KIA September 19, 1863 at the Battle of Chickamauga.

Been studying family history for a few months now and how it ties in to American History. Really making me find out more about not only family history but American History in General. On that note, Chickamauga is a battle, and even the whole Campaign, I'm not very familiar with

JABQ04 said:

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GGGG Uncle, 1SG John C Beard, Co K 5th, TX KIA September 19, 1863 at the Battle of Chickamauga.

Been studying family history for a few months now and how it ties in to American History. Really making me find out more about not only family history but American History in General. On that note, Chickamauga is a battle, and even the whole Campaign, I'm not very familiar with

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Yea pretty confusing. How does an ANV Corps end up fighting in the western theater?

To stop Rosecrans campaign into Northern Georgia. After Gettysburg, Longstreet along with Hood's and McLaw's Divisions went west to shore up Bragg's Army of the Tennessee. A big part of the Chickamauga victory. Not so good on the Knoxville Campaign . Wintered in Tennessee and made it backing the time for the Wilderness and the beginning of the Overland Campaign.

Lots of infighting and intrigue between Bragg and Longstreet during his stay in Tennessee/Georgia.

Under Hood and Longstreet, 15th Ga Inf. was at Chickamauga. GG GF Pvt. James Morris, Co. B survived entire war and surrendered at Appomattox.

Whiskey Before Breakfast said:

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Under Hood and Longstreet, 15th Ga Inf. was at Chickamauga. GG GF Pvt. James Morris, Co. B survived entire war and surrendered at Appomattox.

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That's a hell of a feat to survive the whole war. Of the 6 known relatives in the ANV (four in 5th TX and two in 15th Alabama), two were killed at Gettysburg, one killed Chickamauga, one wounded in foot at Spotslvania and either was invalided out or deserted, one lost an arm at Petersburg and left service, only one ,Basil Crow Brashear, who enlisted in 1861, discharged for illness late '61, came back in spring of '62 to same company in 5 TX, and survived everything to surrender at Appomatox

JABQ04 said:

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Whiskey Before Breakfast said:

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Under Hood and Longstreet, 15th Ga Inf. was at Chickamauga. GG GF Pvt. James Morris, Co. B survived entire war and surrendered at Appomattox.

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That's a hell of a feat to survive the whole war. Of the 6 known relatives in the ANV (four in 5th TX and two in 15th Alabama), two were killed at Gettysburg, one killed Chickamauga, one wounded in foot at Spotslvania and either was invalided out or deserted, one lost an arm at Petersburg and left service, only one ,Basil Crow Brashear, who enlisted in 1861, discharged for illness late '61, came back in spring of '62 to same company in 5 TX, and survived everything to surrender at Appomatox

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I wonder if anybody has done a study on the survival rates for folks who entered early , say 1861ish. When I look at records of relatives and units it is amazing the number that were killed, captured and VERY noticeable , the number who were " granted" leave home never to return. Not many records show " deserted" but damn near half of the guys I looked up that weren't killed or captured never returned from leave home in 64 or 65. I wonder if the unit simply recorded them as failure to return vs deserted with its negative connotations ? It is kind of rare to find an early enlistee that made it all the way to the end. I would imagine that in Texas , being so far away from the main theaters and with so many frontier rigors and dangers, it would be might tempting to simply return home and resume fighting indians and the usual frontier issues.

Folks don't like to talk about it, but if someone's ggggrandfather made it through the entire war and was in a heavily engaged unit, he probably ran at some point or shirked at another. It's human nature and there's only so much one person can take.

Of the estimated 5,353 men who enlisted in the three Texas and one Arkansas regiments, only 617 remained to surrender on April 9, 1865 at Appomattox.

There were quite a few in Company G 5th Texas ( Milam County) that made it for the duration. Probably half the number that were granted furlough and did not return.

NABORS, WM. A. 2Sgt. - Prom., lSgt., Mar.28, 1862: Reduced to Pvt., Dec. 3, 1862: Detailed as litter bearer, July, 1863: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

SMITH, JAS. P. 3Cpl. - Sick, Winter, 1861-62 & Summer, 1862: Asgnd. to Div. Provost Guard, May 12, 1863: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

WILLIAMS, EDW. D. 1Lt. - Recruited, age 37, Mar.25, 1862 in Milam County, Tex.: Appt. SSgt., Dec. 1, 1862: Elect., 3Lt., Oct. 17, 1863: W. (head), Wilderness (May 6, 1864): Prom., 2Lt.: Prom., 1Lt., Sept. 13, 1864: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr. 12, 1865).

POOL, JAS. - Fifer: Prom., 2Cpl., July, 1862: W., Antietam (Sept. 17, 1862): Appt. 4Sgt., May 1, 1863: Detailed to work in a sawmill, Dec., 1864: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

AUSTIN, JOHN T. - Recruited, Mar.15, 1862 in Milam County, Tex.: W., Chickamauga (Sept.19, 1863): Paroled, Appomattox (Apr. 12, 1865).

BARNARD, GEO. A. - Recruited, Mar.22, 1862 in Milam County, Tex.: W. (knee), Gettysburg (July 2, 1863): W. (leg), Wilderness (May 6, 1864): Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

CALDWELL, L. W. - Recruited, Mar.22, 1862 in Milam County, Tex.: W., 2nd Manassas (Aug. 30, 1862): Appt. lSgt., Dec. 3, 1862: W. (head), Wilderness (May 6, 1864): Paroled, Appomattox (Apr. 12, 1865).

DYER, WM.. - Recruited, Mar.22, 1862 in Milam County, Tex.: Asgnd. as an ambulance driver, Dec., 1862 to end of war: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr. 12, 1865).

FRAZIER, JAS. - Recruited, Mar.22, 1862 in Milam County, Tex.: Disabled for field duty: Asgnd. as a Div. wagoneer, June, 1863 and remained so for rest of the war: Paroled, Farmville, Va., Apr. 13, 1865.

MAYES, DAVID H. - W., Gaines' Mill (June 27, 1862): W. (leg) & POW, Gettysburg (July 2, 1863): Sent to Fed. hosp. at David's Is., N.Y. Harbor: Paroled at City Pt., Va., Sept.27, 1863: Rejnd. Co.: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

McANNICH, ELIAS B. - Enl., age 33, Mar.22, 1862 in Milam Co., Tex.: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

McDONALD, DANIEL - Sick, Winter, 1861-62: W. (foot) & POW, Gettysburg (July 2, 1863): Exchanged, Ft. Monroe, Va., May 18, 1863: W., Petersburg trenches (July, 1864): W. (leg), White Oak Swamp (Aug.16, 1864): Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

NANCE, CONSTANTINE P. - Asgnd. as a Regmntl. wagoneer, Dec.21, 1861: W. (leg, bone splintered), Gaines' Mill (June 27, 1862): AWOL, East Tenn., Winter, 1863-64: W. (arm), Darbytown Rd. (Oct. 7, 1864): Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

SMALL, JOHN B. - W. (thigh), Antietam (Sept.17, 1862): Appt. to Division Engineering Staff, June 12, 1863: Returned to Co. G: W. (head), Spotsylvania (May 10, 1864): Paroled, Appomattox (Apr. 12, 1865).

SMITH, WM. W. - Appt. SSgt., Jan.16, 1863: POW, Suffolk, Va., Apr., 1863: Exchanged, May 15, 1863: W. (chest) & POW, Gettysburg (July 2, 1863): Exchanged: Detailed to Div. QM Guard, July, 1864: Appt. Div. Foragemaster, Dec., 1864: Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865).

TOMLINSON, ANDREW JACKSON - Transfd. into Co. G from Co. I, 5th Tex. laf. Regt., Nov. 1, 1861: W., Bitham's Landing (May 7, 1862): Paroled, Appomattox (Apr.12, 1865), & also paroled at Montgomery, Ala., May 13, 1865.

http://texas-brigade.org/images/5th_tex/5texrostercog.htm

Dr. Watson said:

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Folks don't like to talk about it, but if someone's ggggrandfather made it through the entire war and was in a heavily engaged unit, he probably ran at some point or shirked at another. It's human nature and there's only so much one person can take.

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Notice in my post above how many of the survivors were wounded multiple times and still persisted.

claym711 said:

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Leave it to Watson to attempt to **** on people.

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I'm not ****ting on people. I'm taking about the realities of a conflict like the Civil War. The Texas Brigade retreated as did every regiment in the Civil War. Typically not the nice, neat, orderly affairs reenactors like to portray. It was human. I'm talking about looking at these conflicts from a human level instead of a mythic level.

JABQ04 said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Folks don't like to talk about it, but if someone's ggggrandfather made it through the entire war and was in a heavily engaged unit, he probably ran at some point or shirked at another. It's human nature and there's only so much one person can take.

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So I've thought on this and am not going to disagree with it completely. However, and from some personal experience to tie in, I have seen combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. Actual ground combat, boots on the ground firing rifles at other humans who are firing rifles back at me. Was I terrified? Absolutely. Somethings I did went against every natural reaction to self preservation. My buddies, squad mates, and what have you, doing their jobs and counting on me to do mine 100% at times kept me doing my job. That transcends all time boundaries from 300BC, to 1862, to 2017.

I have no doubt there were cowards and shirkers and men who reached their breaking points. It happens in every war. Reports form the Civil War are full of them. But I'll maintain those men were weeded out pretty soon. Especially amongst crack troops. Another thing to consider, if you run or dodge your duty word can get back to your family via mail or men on furlough. All my relatives in the Texas Brigade are from the same area. If one ran or deserted I'd imagine everyone in Livingston or Liberty would know eventually.

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I'm a combat veteran of Iraq myself. I'm not saying they necessarily individually broke and ran while everyone else stood as statues. I'm saying every unit had its moments when they couldn't take any more and they stopped. They retreated. Maybe they even collectively disintegrated and ran. And individuals did often slow down or somehow avoid certain fights and certain areas. When we're talking about desertion we can't ignore actions short of desertion that soldiers did with regularity during the war.

Perhaps. I didn't think egos had to be assuaged in a frank discussion that had already turned towards the issue of desertion.

Dr. Watson said:

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Perhaps. I didn't think egos had to be assuaged in a frank discussion that had already turned towards the issue of desertion.

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Agreed, I missed OA76's post that you were following on this. I have a hunch someone else did as well. You tend to have the bullseye on your back and rarely get the benefit of the doubt when you post. Had I read OA76's post first, I would not have had any issue with what you posted. I agreed with what you said, but thought you were just tossing a grenade in the room and walking off. My reaction and post about phrasing it better was irrational given the start of the conversation prior.

tmaggies said:

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Please go away watty.....

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I assume this is aimed at me? If so, no. I'm not going anywhere.

$12.99 per month is well worth the 'Ignore' feature.

MaroonStain said:

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$12.99 per month is well worth the 'Ignore' feature.

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Learn something everyday.....thank you!

http://www.historynet.com/fighting-fast-texas-brigade-sharpsburg.htm

I've always wondered the long term consequences if Lee had been crushed at Antietam. Let's say McClellan advanced his whole force at dawn and trapped Lee against the Potomac, leading to a surrender. Lincoln would issue the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, but would the war continue past January 1? Is the Confederacy divided with states like Virginia agreeing to return to the Union and states like SC and Alabama continuing to resist?

If the South had taken DC after Mannasas, what would have happened ?