Recently diagnosed as mildly hypoglycemic. Two measurements fasting were glucose of 101 and 126. A1C is 6.5. Pretty much cut out all sugar and 90% of refined carbs. I want to lose some weight but when I cut out sugar I felt like I was gonna die. Literally I thought I was dead. Could barely walk 50 feet. That was couple months ago and im afraid to go full on keto. Any thoughts on this?
Hypoglycemia and Keto diet
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Last: 6 yr ago by bigtruckguy3500
hypoglycemic?
you mean hyper....
and yes, research has shown how good the ketogenic diet is on controlling glucose levels
so the brain fog...does happen but goes away once your body has adjusted to running on low carbohydrates...
if you are scared of that feeling again, i would just suggest to eat cleaner...no processed crap, kind of paleo
I'd be happy to coach you on a healthier lifestyle
you mean hyper....
and yes, research has shown how good the ketogenic diet is on controlling glucose levels
so the brain fog...does happen but goes away once your body has adjusted to running on low carbohydrates...
if you are scared of that feeling again, i would just suggest to eat cleaner...no processed crap, kind of paleo
I'd be happy to coach you on a healthier lifestyle
i would be interested in keto recipes if anyone wants to share
I don't know anything about you, but I'd assume weight loss and waist size reduction will likely cure your hyperglycemia (caused by insulin resistance). Carb counting without keto, and an actual keto diet are both good options to treat the hyperglycemia, but ultimately you probably need to lose weight (just my guess). Keto is also great for weight loss (it makes it really overeat if you stick with it). And your brain uses pretty much only glucose (sugar) for energy, so when you suddenly starve it of glucose you're going to feel bad and probably get a headache. That's normal. It takes a little while for your brain to adapt to burning fat for energy. Once it does that you'll actually notice more stable energy, less likely post-lunch sleepiness, and less hunger throughout the day, even though you'll be eating less.
I say go for it.
I say go for it.
Before insulin and modern drug therapy, doctors would prescribe nothing but meat to folks with diabetes. They lost a ton of weight and the diabetes.
I'm a type 1 Diabetic and have been since the age of 11. I'm 44 today. I've been on a high fat / high protein / low carb diet now for the last 11 years and I struggle to maintain my weight, but I have found success with eating very high caloric foods (mayo, sausage, etc.) I'm 6"1 and weigh in at 180 lbs. My blood work is immaculate and I have no evidence of any diabetic damage whatsoever.
Over the last 10 years my A1Cs have been consistent at 5.2, but my last A1C (just taken a week ago) came in at 4.4.
Obviously I'm a big proponent of the high fat / protein / low carb diet. You cannot get better control through any other means, in my opinion. The only drawback I see is difficulty in maintaining weight. This would be a plus for most, but it's a negative for me.
Over the last 10 years my A1Cs have been consistent at 5.2, but my last A1C (just taken a week ago) came in at 4.4.
Obviously I'm a big proponent of the high fat / protein / low carb diet. You cannot get better control through any other means, in my opinion. The only drawback I see is difficulty in maintaining weight. This would be a plus for most, but it's a negative for me.
RWC - do you mind providing an example of what you eat throughout the day?
Sure, this morning I had 2.5 of those Slovacek sausages they sell in a 3 lb bag plus 5-6 slices of cheese. For lunch, I'll eat egg salad with 4-5 eggs and a lot of mayo. I'll throw in 2 cheese sticks and about a half a cup of mixed nuts. For dinner, I'll eat 8-9 oz of chicken/beef/pork/fish along with veggies. After a workout I'll throw in about 3 oz of heavy whipping cream and 5 oz of water in a protein shake. That's pretty much my intake for the day.
I'd say that with an A1C of 6.5 (the methodology I use tells me this is an average of 160), I'd say your issues are more hyperglycemia than hypo.polksalet12345 said:
Recently diagnosed as mildly hypoglycemic. Two measurements fasting were glucose of 101 and 126. A1C is 6.5. Pretty much cut out all sugar and 90% of refined carbs. I want to lose some weight but when I cut out sugar I felt like I was gonna die. Literally I thought I was dead. Could barely walk 50 feet. That was couple months ago and im afraid to go full on keto. Any thoughts on this?
I'm type 1 as well, and I know we've talked about it on other threads before. My biggest challenge at eating low carbs during the week is lunch. I love sammiches, so that's been hard to eliminate. Breakfast is usually eggs and avocado or nothing, and dinner is a protein and veggies most nights. I need to hit up the Whole Foods salad bar more often or just bring plain egg salad.RightWingConspirator said:
Sure, this morning I had 2.5 of those Slovacek sausages they sell in a 3 lb bag plus 5-6 slices of cheese. For lunch, I'll eat egg salad with 4-5 eggs and a lot of mayo. I'll throw in 2 cheese sticks and about a half a cup of mixed nuts. For dinner, I'll eat 8-9 oz of chicken/beef/pork/fish along with veggies. After a workout I'll throw in about 3 oz of heavy whipping cream and 5 oz of water in a protein shake. That's pretty much my intake for the day.
Those A1Cs are ridiculous (in a good way), as long as you aren't having too many low scares.
Quinn, thankfully no low scares. I went through that a few years ago and I've now thankfully put those issues to bed. No fun at all.
What's your average daily carb intake? And what does your basal/bolus regimen look like?
I haven't quantified what my daily carb intake is, but it is no more than 30 grams of carbs per day.
As far as my insulin intake, I'm on Levemir, Humulin R, and Humalog. Humalog I use for just correcting (sugar gets higher than 100, I'll correct). I give 7 units of Levemir at bedtime and at breakfast. For breakfast, to cover my food, I'll give 3 units of Humulin R. For lunch, I give 6 units of Humulin R. At dinner; I'll give 3 units of Humulin R. Humalog is too fast an insulin for mealtime for someone who is on a low carb diet.
As far as my insulin intake, I'm on Levemir, Humulin R, and Humalog. Humalog I use for just correcting (sugar gets higher than 100, I'll correct). I give 7 units of Levemir at bedtime and at breakfast. For breakfast, to cover my food, I'll give 3 units of Humulin R. For lunch, I give 6 units of Humulin R. At dinner; I'll give 3 units of Humulin R. Humalog is too fast an insulin for mealtime for someone who is on a low carb diet.
I love seeing all these people who are all obviously highly educated Registered Dietitians on this thread giving advice to treat one of the top 5 killers of all Americans. Irresponsible?
BTW no one has ever gotten rid of either type of diabetes.
BTW no one has ever gotten rid of either type of diabetes.
veritas47 said:
I love seeing all these people who are all obviously highly educated Registered Dietitians on this thread giving advice to treat one of the top 5 killers of all Americans. Irresponsible?
BTW no one has ever gotten rid of either type of diabetes.
Enlighten us ole wise one. And I know several people that have gotten their blood sugar levels low enough to get off meds
Being off meds doesn't mean they're no longer diabetic. That just means they're managing their blood sugar.
Yesssss this thread is relevant to my new diet interests. I'd love any keto diet recipes/suggestions.
veritas47 said:
Being off meds doesn't mean they're no longer diabetic. That just means they're managing their blood sugar.
Bingo.
But that's like saying someone who exercises and loses weight and now has a normal blood pressure and no longer needs BP meds still has hypertension, but is just managing his blood pressure.
No it's not. If you don't need meds to control your hypertension you don't have hypertension.bigtruckguy3500 said:
But that's like saying someone who exercises and loses weight and now has a normal blood pressure and no longer needs BP meds still has hypertension, but is just managing his blood pressure.
Just because you can manage your diabetes with careful diet and exercise doesn't mean you suddenly have a functioning pancreas.
Do you even biology, bro?
To be fair, most registered dietitians are still suggesting that diabetics shove bran muffins and other carb-loaded **** into their faces.veritas47 said:
I love seeing all these people who are all obviously highly educated Registered Dietitians on this thread giving advice to treat one of the top 5 killers of all Americans. Irresponsible?
BTW no one has ever gotten rid of either type of diabetes.
A good high protein, high fat diet would make most dietitians scream.
Veritas said that no one has ever gotten rid of either type of diabetes. Type 2 diabetics, at least until the disease substantially progresses, have insulin resistance and a functioning [albeit overworked] pancreas. Insulin resistance is a reversible condition that, generally speaking, can be reduced in most people by weight loss and/or diet control. If you can lose weight to the point where you have normal insulin sensitivity and can eat a candy bar while maintaining your blood sugar at a reasonable level, I'd say you've cured yourself of type 2 diabetes. Just like if you can get to the point where your BP is within normal limits without meds, you've cured yourself of hypertension.AggieChemist said:No it's not. If you don't need meds to control your hypertension you don't have hypertension.bigtruckguy3500 said:
But that's like saying someone who exercises and loses weight and now has a normal blood pressure and no longer needs BP meds still has hypertension, but is just managing his blood pressure.
Just because you can manage your diabetes with careful diet and exercise doesn't mean you suddenly have a functioning pancreas.
Do you even biology, bro?
nm
bigtruckguy3500 said:Veritas said that no one has ever gotten rid of either type of diabetes. Type 2 diabetics, at least until the disease substantially progresses, have insulin resistance and a functioning [albeit overworked] pancreas. Insulin resistance is a reversible condition that, generally speaking, can be reduced in most people by weight loss and/or diet control. If you can lose weight to the point where you have normal insulin sensitivity and can eat a candy bar while maintaining your blood sugar at a reasonable level, I'd say you've cured yourself of type 2 diabetes. Just like if you can get to the point where your BP is within normal limits without meds, you've cured yourself of hypertension.AggieChemist said:No it's not. If you don't need meds to control your hypertension you don't have hypertension.bigtruckguy3500 said:
But that's like saying someone who exercises and loses weight and now has a normal blood pressure and no longer needs BP meds still has hypertension, but is just managing his blood pressure.
Just because you can manage your diabetes with careful diet and exercise doesn't mean you suddenly have a functioning pancreas.
Do you even biology, bro?
Diabetes and hypertension are two very different disorders. Type 1 Diabetes occurs when the pancreas does not produce enough or any insulin. Type 2 Diabetes occurs when the pancreas produces insulin but the body's tissues stop responding to the presence of insulin in the bloodstream (the insulin sensitivity you referenced). Through diet and exercise, you can induce a physiological condition in which the tissues take in glucose, similar to how they would in the presence of insulin. This physiological state is not permanent and only occurs during or immediately after exercise, hence, the assertion that Diabetes has not, in fact, been cured.
Hypertension is controlled by multiple strategies based on the specific conditions that elevate the systolic pressure on the heart, whether they are blockages, loss of arterial plasticity, damaged ventricle walls or valves, etc.
To be fair, I'd say the same applies to endocrinologists as well. If I had a dime for every time an endocrinologist told me "good job" for an A1C of higher than 7, I'd not be posting from work right now.AggieChemist said:To be fair, most registered dietitians are still suggesting that diabetics shove bran muffins and other carb-loaded **** into their faces.veritas47 said:
I love seeing all these people who are all obviously highly educated Registered Dietitians on this thread giving advice to treat one of the top 5 killers of all Americans. Irresponsible?
BTW no one has ever gotten rid of either type of diabetes.
A good high protein, high fat diet would make most dietitians scream.
As far as veritas' concern, everybody must make their own decisions as far as how to deal with their own health. I do think it's beneficial to hear from others what works for them, and I don't think it's irresponsible to share with others. It may be irresponsible to take advice from others without achieving a full understanding of how the recommendations of others might impact the individual. I share with the group my opinions on anything diabetes related because I've achieved remarkable success following a high fat / high protein diet. Any complications I ever had have since reversed once I got my blood sugars under control. Might my advice be beneficial to someone struggling to control their diabetes? I think so. Can it be universally applied to every diabetic (both type 1 and type 2) regardless of their circumstances? That's not for me to decide.
I'll say this in response to Aggie Chemist's post. I did not get my diabetes under control until I took control of it myself and stopped depending on doctors, their advice, and their conventional wisdom. Doctors - typically - have one standard for diabetics and a different standard for non-diabetics. This makes no sense to me. I want to live a life longevity of a non-diabetic, so why are my standards lower than the non-diabetic? Why is it okay for me to have an A1C of greater than 7 when that would not be acceptable for the non-diabetic.
Most doctors are there to treat your symptoms, but very few have any recommendations that are worthwhile on the subject of actually controlling your diabetes. This has been my experience over the course of the last 33 years. I'm sure there are good doctors out there, but I've not found them.
PrincessButtercup said:
Yesssss this thread is relevant to my new diet interests. I'd love any keto diet recipes/suggestions.
http://cavemanketo.com
That guy has saved my ass a few times already when I look at my fridge and feel like there's nothing different to eat/cook. Lot of easy meals in there that taste quite good.
Seeing as the top 2 causes for death in America are heart disease and cancer it is more than safe to say that what most Americans consider to be a healthy diet is not. Too much sugar and carbs. While high fat low carb is not for everyone a more moderate diet for Americans would probably save a lot of lives.
RightWingConspirator said:
I'm a type 1 Diabetic and have been since the age of 11. I'm 44 today. I've been on a high fat / high protein / low carb diet now for the last 11 years and I struggle to maintain my weight, but I have found success with eating very high caloric foods (mayo, sausage, etc.) I'm 6"1 and weigh in at 180 lbs. My blood work is immaculate and I have no evidence of any diabetic damage whatsoever.
Over the last 10 years my A1Cs have been consistent at 5.2, but my last A1C (just taken a week ago) came in at 4.4.
Obviously I'm a big proponent of the high fat / protein / low carb diet. You cannot get better control through any other means, in my opinion. The only drawback I see is difficulty in maintaining weight. This would be a plus for most, but it's a negative for me.
Very interesting. Im a type 1 as well and while my A1C is between 6 and 6.5, I don't really have any true focus or direction with my food intake. I've been looking for a food plan to fine tune my diabetes management and get in the low 5s with A1C
What do your current doctors think of your A1C? I think most general practice docs lump type 1's in with type 2's in regards to goal blood sugars. With most type 2's you've got to almost beg them to try for less than 7. I remember meeting a guy with an A1C of 11 (had previously been as high as 13). He just lacked any motivation, and dismissed all the warnings about the effects it will have on him.
There's also some evidence that I've seen that links really tight blood sugar control with adverse cardiac events. I never read beyond the punchline though.
There's also some evidence that I've seen that links really tight blood sugar control with adverse cardiac events. I never read beyond the punchline though.
bigtruckguy,
Honestly my doctor when he gets my A1Cs is really at a loss for words. He has no idea what to say because these results are very rare in the diabetes community. He usually just sits there stunned, particularly when this last A1C came in at 4.4.
As far as cardio issues, who knows whether there is any truth to the studies, but I've had no issues, and my doctor has no issues with it, either. Just had my labs come in. LDL came in at 111, HDL came in at 69; and triglycerides came in at 57. Kidney and liver function are both normal.
Honestly my doctor when he gets my A1Cs is really at a loss for words. He has no idea what to say because these results are very rare in the diabetes community. He usually just sits there stunned, particularly when this last A1C came in at 4.4.
As far as cardio issues, who knows whether there is any truth to the studies, but I've had no issues, and my doctor has no issues with it, either. Just had my labs come in. LDL came in at 111, HDL came in at 69; and triglycerides came in at 57. Kidney and liver function are both normal.
Wonder why that would be? A non-diabetic having normal blood sugar levels isn't at any higher risk, right? That's just how the general population works, correct?bigtruckguy3500 said:
What do your current doctors think of your A1C? I think most general practice docs lump type 1's in with type 2's in regards to goal blood sugars. With most type 2's you've got to almost beg them to try for less than 7. I remember meeting a guy with an A1C of 11 (had previously been as high as 13). He just lacked any motivation, and dismissed all the warnings about the effects it will have on him.
There's also some evidence that I've seen that links really tight blood sugar control with adverse cardiac events. I never read beyond the punchline though.
Yeah, not entirely sure. I'll have to reread the paper, but my guess would be that if you take people living at an A1C of 6-7, and try and get them to 5-6 (for example), their body might be used to one thing and gets somewhat shocked by the change.
Here, found the paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822326?dopt=Abstract
Here, found the paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822326?dopt=Abstract
(Note I'm a pediatrician with a child who is a type 1, I'm not an endo!)
Most docs are worried about very low A1C in Type 1's because you are risking an overnight catastrophic low by keeping A1C under 6. I think your caveman diet is working because you are not giving high dose insulin late at night or during dinner resulting in a sudden low. In fact, I bet your boluses are really low dose overall which mitigates this much feared adverse outcome. What is your bolus vs basal ratio? Like 80% basal or something crazy?
So most endo are happy to have your A1C sub 7 as that seems to substantially decrease the risk of long term diabetes complications. When you start getting into the sub 5.5 range they are worried about the possibility of a life ending catastrophic low and thus they will not advise that as a goal as then they are liable for your demise.
I have not heard of or had any patients that can obtain tight & safe controls as you have but most Americans are not able to maintain a sub 25 grams carb diet for any length of time. I know I cannot!
Most docs are worried about very low A1C in Type 1's because you are risking an overnight catastrophic low by keeping A1C under 6. I think your caveman diet is working because you are not giving high dose insulin late at night or during dinner resulting in a sudden low. In fact, I bet your boluses are really low dose overall which mitigates this much feared adverse outcome. What is your bolus vs basal ratio? Like 80% basal or something crazy?
So most endo are happy to have your A1C sub 7 as that seems to substantially decrease the risk of long term diabetes complications. When you start getting into the sub 5.5 range they are worried about the possibility of a life ending catastrophic low and thus they will not advise that as a goal as then they are liable for your demise.
I have not heard of or had any patients that can obtain tight & safe controls as you have but most Americans are not able to maintain a sub 25 grams carb diet for any length of time. I know I cannot!
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I've been eating this way for the last 11 years, and so, if the discipline is there, the control will be there. I had more scary lows when my A1Cs were in the 5.2 range than in the 4.4 range. I no longer have super low episodes as my sugars stay pretty much in the 70s plus or minus 30 points.
I know RWC has super low A1C. My wife has been a lifetime T1D and I think there is plenty of evidence now that says for unknown reasons T1D should be in the 6 +/- .5 range for A1C.
Type 2, seems to be a different story.
My guess is that T1D affects more than just the ability to produce insulin, there are other homones that get messed up and having the ratio of sugar to artificial insulin in the neighborhood of what it takes to be in the low 5s is not optimal for organ health.
I respect RWC's decision to get as low a A1C as possible and hope it works out for him long term. It's not something my family supports, nor do our doctors. In the meantime I wait on something that resembles a cure.
Type 2, seems to be a different story.
My guess is that T1D affects more than just the ability to produce insulin, there are other homones that get messed up and having the ratio of sugar to artificial insulin in the neighborhood of what it takes to be in the low 5s is not optimal for organ health.
I respect RWC's decision to get as low a A1C as possible and hope it works out for him long term. It's not something my family supports, nor do our doctors. In the meantime I wait on something that resembles a cure.
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