This is the strength training plan a trainer put together for me to build muscle and lose fat. I'm curious to get some independent thoughts on it. I was looking at the 5X5 thread and was surprised at how much more "involved" this plan seems, even though it's only about 30 minutes. The weights are the starting weights, and his guidance was to increase the weight once I had no difficulty on the third set.

Day 1 - Upper Body
Bench Press 3X12 @ 95
Cable Rows 3X12 @ 75
Bench Dips 3X12
Dumbbell Shoulder Raises 3X12 @ 5 (I love getting my ass kicked by a 5 lb dumbbell)
Overhead Dumbbell Press 3X12 @ 5
Hammer Curls 3X12 @ 15
Overhead Tricep Extensions 3X12 @ 10
10 minutes Cardio

Day 2 - Lower Body
Squats 3X12 @ 95-105-115
Box Jumps 3X12 @ 8
Dumbbell Lunges 3X16 @ 5
Leg Press 3X12 @ 90
Calf Raises 3X12 @ 90
Hamstring Curls 3X12 @ 70
Leg Extensions 3X12 @ 40
Reverse Crunches 3X20 seconds
Leg raises 3X20 seconds

Day 3 - Cardio
30-40 minutes cardio of choice

Day 4 - Upper Body
Day 5 - Lower Body
Day 6 - Cardio
Day 7 - Rest

I don't see anything wrong with it. It seems pretty complicated to me, but if you trust the guy,go for it. Did you check to see wh ere his certifications are from?

For your goals I would recommend 5x5 with sprints and ab work on the non-lifting days,starting with 5-10 x100m, with 1:30-2:00 minutes of jogging between sprints.

That's just me though. I prefer less complicated workouts and I enjoy using barbells over dumbbells.

The key is finding something that motivates you to get to the gym and give 110% when you are there. That's why I like the 5x5 program, it lets me set and re-set goals while cutting me up.

Good luck!

I know some may disagree but the ortho that repaired my ACL told me to never do leg extensions unless it's with light weight due to the sheering force it places on the ACL. Keep in mind my ortho did his fellowship under Dr. James Andrews. If you don't know who he is Google him. Squats, leg extensions, box squats, etc. are good and if you are doing them why even due leg extensions?

I like simpler plans.

I also like having more sets with lower rep schemes to get the same volume in the movements.

I'm also a bigger fan of basing the program off of Squats, Bench/OP and Deadlifts instead of dumbbell and other random movements.

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I know some may disagree but the ortho that repaired my ACL told me to never do leg extensions unless it's with light weight due to the sheering force it places on the ACL. Keep in mind my ortho did his fellowship under Dr. James Andrews. If you don't know who he is Google him. Squats, leg extensions, box squats, etc. are good and if you are doing them why even due leg extensions?

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Leg extensions have always been the thing I struggle with when I do lower body. They are just very awkward and uncomfortable to me.

Throw in some assisted pull-ups and chin-ups. There isn't a lot of back work in that plan, and those are pretty large muscles that need to be worked.

The best plan is the one you'll consistently do.
At least try this for a while before passing judgment. You can always tweak it once you get to Know it.

As already stated - ditch the extensions.

I like balance so I'd add some lat work to balance out the overhead work (chins are best if you can do them).

Other than that, I don't see much wrong with the program for starting off.

5X5 seems interesting an not all that involved, but I'm a little struck by it starting out with essentially just the bar (no effort) and working up to significant weight very aggressively, but I'm not going to read through the 28-page thread.

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5X5 seems interesting an not all that involved, but I'm a little struck by it starting out with essentially just the bar (no effort) and working up to significant weight very aggressively, but I'm not going to read through the 28-page thread.

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You don't have to start at just the bar. If you have somewhat of idea of your max you can start @ 50-60% and go from there.

I would also look to increase your weight if you can do the wight you listed. If that last rep of your 3rd set is easy or even happens at all then the next time you should be doing more. You have to lift heavy(relative term) to build strength.

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I know some may disagree but the ortho that repaired my ACL told me to never do leg extensions unless it's with light weight due to the sheering force it places on the ACL. Keep in mind my ortho did his fellowship under Dr. James Andrews. If you don't know who he is Google him. Squats, leg extensions, box squats, etc. are good and if you are doing them why even due leg extensions?

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My PT says the same about leg extensions. Good advice.

With that in mind (Leg Extensions) it is important to think about the pro bodybuilders, since a lot of what is posted for routines by the bro's are based on what the pros are doing. Half of what the pros say is utter bull****, the other half is paid endorsements. Seriously. Same with the "fitness" magazines, Flex, Muscular Development and others.

I just want to lose fat, and cardio was counterproductive. I'll do anything that works (within reason).

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I just want to lose fat, and cardio was counterproductive. I'll do anything that works (within reason).

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Replace cardio on your plan with HIIT (high intensity interval training)

And when you really want to kick your own ass with a workout, do this.
ASU Insane Plate Workout

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And when you really want to kick your own ass with a workout, do this.
ASU Insane Plate Workout

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Yikes. That looks like a whole lot of suck.

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And when you really want to kick your own ass with a workout, do this.
ASU Insane Plate Workout

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Yikes. That looks like a whole lot of suck.

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It is. Did you see the guy with only 1 leg doing it?

Yeah. Good for him.

I was thinking maybe I could give it a try once a week. I could start out with a 25# plate and maybe 12 reps, then move up the reps to 16 and start increasing weight from there. Those guys are in awesome shape and it's kicking their asses, so I know I'd be dead on the floor if I made it through.

What do you think?

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I was thinking maybe I could give it a try once a week. I could start out with a 25# plate and maybe 12 reps, then move up the reps to 16 and start increasing weight from there. Those guys are in awesome shape and it's kicking their asses, so I know I'd be dead on the floor if I made it through.

What do you think?

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When I first attempting I could barely do it with a 25 a few years ago. At that time I would put myself ahead of you in a strength position. I worked my way up to a 45 just recently.

I would say attempt in full it with a 25, but when you reach failure, go down to a 10 plate or a 15 pound DB. If you reach failure then drop again. I would focus on using a heavier weight for a longer period and shortening the rest times between rounds as time goes by to see how you've progressed.

For those who didn't click, the workout is.
16 reps through all the lifts (curls, sleds, front raises, around the world, split lunges, etc)
15 reps
run .25 mile
14 reps
13 reps
run .25 mile
12 reps
11 reps
run .25 mile
10 reps
run .50 mile

bookmarking that plate workout

I'm not terribly impressed. To build muscle mass you need to get strong. Dead lift, squat, clean & jerk, snatch, bench press, pull-ups, and military press. I'll add in ancillary lifts to round everything out. Complex lifts will grow muscle the best and maintaining higher reps will burn fat.

Cycle 1: DL, military press, box jumps, incline DB fly, pull-ups, core
Cycle 2: C&J, bench, shoulder raise, seated row, curl, core
Cycle 3: snatch, squat, dips, reverse fly, core

Every lift cycle starts with rowing for warmup and ends with core exercises.
Cardio is currently a sprint workout that I've been laddering up:
7x80m, 7x45m, 2 min rest, 7x60m, 7x40m. 30 sec between sprints. It'll get you!

A couple questions: Am I understanding correctly that you're primarily looking to lose fat, rather than gain muscle? Also, can you explain what you mean when you say that cardio was counterproductive, and perhaps discuss what cardio you were doing? Time, intensity, frequency, etc. Perhaps the routine just wasn't quite right.

One of the basic tenets of exercise physiology is that weight lifting does very little in the way of causing you to lose body fat. I would also encourage you to scrutinize your personal trainer carefully; there are a lot of really good ones out there who know what they are doing, but there are also quite a few who didn't receive proper training to do what most of their customers expect of them. I know a few of these myself.

And, as many above have said, definitely skip on the leg extensions. In addition to being less than ideal for your knees, it's also a very inefficient movement and can pretty easily cause you to cramp up because the muscle is shortened at the hip and the knee when you get fully extended. Ideally you want the muscle you are working to be lengthened over one of the two joints it crosses (in this case, the hip) which allows for a comfortable, strong contraction at the other (the knee).

I hope that you can gain some insight from this thread, the best thing is that you're looking for answers and are not willing to just blindly accept what you're told.

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One of the basic tenets of exercise physiology is that weight lifting does very little in the way of causing you to lose body fat.

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What?

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A couple questions: Am I understanding correctly that you're primarily looking to lose fat, rather than gain muscle? Also, can you explain what you mean when you say that cardio was counterproductive, and perhaps discuss what cardio you were doing? Time, intensity, frequency, etc. Perhaps the routine just wasn't quite right.

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At this point, I need to rebuild muscle that was lost over the last month. I was doing cardio for at least 45 minutes to an hour a day, sometimes longer than that, but I was also eating only 600-800 calories a day. The cardio became counterproductive when my body went into starvation mode and I started burning off muscle instead of fat. Looking back at things, I can see how that worked out because while my weight went down, my body shape did not change where it should have in places where I carry more fat.

Let's say I build muscle and non of my fat goes away - at least then my body fat percentage is lower, which works to my advantage in all of this. I just have to get under 24% if I happen to be over the max weight limit. In the meantime, the good news is that my weight has finally started moving downward again.

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One of the basic tenets of exercise physiology is that weight lifting does very little in the way of causing you to lose body fat.

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I'm going to respectfully disagree with this statement.

https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/burnfatUNM.html

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A couple questions: Am I understanding correctly that you're primarily looking to lose fat, rather than gain muscle? Also, can you explain what you mean when you say that cardio was counterproductive, and perhaps discuss what cardio you were doing? Time, intensity, frequency, etc. Perhaps the routine just wasn't quite right.

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At this point, I need to rebuild muscle that was lost over the last month. I was doing cardio for at least 45 minutes to an hour a day, sometimes longer than that, but I was also eating only 600-800 calories a day. The cardio became counterproductive when my body went into starvation mode and I started burning off muscle instead of fat. Looking back at things, I can see how that worked out because while my weight went down, my body shape did not change where it should have in places where I carry more fat.

Let's say I build muscle and non of my fat goes away - at least then my body fat percentage is lower, which works to my advantage in all of this. I just have to get under 24% if I happen to be over the max weight limit. In the meantime, the good news is that my weight has finally started moving downward again.

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Doing the work outs that Gator2_01 and aggie1906 talked about will meet your goals. Switch to barbell workouts (5x5, or something else you are comfortable with) and throw in HIIT workouts as well and you will be on your way to increased muscle while burning fat.

A lot of folks out there think that lifting heavy weights only builds muscle. It does build muscle, which increases metabolism which causes you to burn fat. You won't lose too much "weight" on the scale since muscle weighs more than fat, but, you will get lean.

I'm not going to speak for the cave dweller, but perhaps he was talking about the myth of building extra muscle burns a lot more calories.

All i can say is that after years of just trying to routinely hit the vanity spots (chest, tri's, biceps, traps, lats etc.), I started incorporating more core body exercises (reverse grip pull ups, wide grip pull ups, squats) and actually started working out my back in its entirety, and I have seen a bigger improvement than ever in terms of fat burning and muscle growth. Squats alone have done wonders...I never would have thought that. I feel better after working those areas as well. Wish I had been doing this all along.

Good luck!

PS- Beginning a pull-up or squat regiment can be incredibly humbling. Forget doing SETS of wide grip pull ups...I was struggling to do more than 2 reps. Just work this kind of stuff in with each work out and youll be amazed at how fast you improve over time. Squats too...it was very embarrassing getting started...as 120lb girls were squatting twice as much as me...but you learn to ignore that as you begin to see gains.

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One of the basic tenets of exercise physiology is that weight lifting does very little in the way of causing you to lose body fat

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My impression, from a certified Bro scientist.

Volume is high, but it's not completely nuts...
Ditch cable exercises for barbell equivalent.
I would drop bicep and tricep isolation exercises, maybe add those after 4 weeks. Barbell row works biceps pretty good. Replace bench dip with dip bars, also Dips and Bench are good tricep exercises.

My advice if you want to follow his template is to aim for 3x12, but choose a weight you can do between 8 and 12... you may get x12, x10, x8 on the sets, once you get 12 on all 3 sets then go up in weight and attempt at least 3x8 with increased weight, once you can get new weight to 3x12, increase weight again. I have done this myself with success. I would scrap all of the leg isolation moves, between squats, box jumps, lunges and leg press your volume is just way over the top on the legs and the cable exercises won't really be that much benefit
If you were doing this once a week instead of twice a week, then maybe it works, but not when doing it twice a week.

Forgive me for my original post; I am here to take my lumps for my words.

What I SHOULD have said ,and did not, is that weight training is not the primary way to lose weight, though it certainly helps adjust body composition. I want to read the study that was posted in more detail tomorrow, as I only skimmed tonight to see its general content. It is certainly true that the body's metabolism is boosted during and after an exercise bout of any variety, including weight training.

What is also important regarding your cardio training, however, is the exercise intensity; beyond a certain level of exertion, your body's mechanisms for burning fat basically become too slow/inefficient and you switch to primarily carbohydrates. Here comes the dilemma between increasing CV fitness and losing weight in the short term - usually that threshold for the switch from fat to carbs lies beneath the level required to get a good CV workout. With increased CV fitness, the fat burning mechanisms improve and can take place with higher intensities, but in the meantime you won't burn nearly as much fat.

Could you give any insight into the pace/distance of your usual cardio workouts, both before and now with your updated workout plan?

Side note on increased calorie burning by increased muscle mass: it isn't so much a myth as it is an exaggeration. I'm far too lazy to go look through my notes but it's effects aren't terribly significant.

When I originally posted on this thread, I had not done my due diligence of reading the other threads OP had started regarding his journey. It seems that you have increased your caloric intake on your doctor's advice to a more responsible level since you are no longer trying to "cut" weight for a short term weigh-in, and this should help prevent your body from going into insane fat-storage mode, as was alluded to earlier. As long as you've still got a caloric deficit, you should be able to succeed in your weight loss goals, though I am uncertain on the time frame.

I hope for the best for you and that perhaps I can be of some small bit of help.

Edit for holy smokes, TLDR

Cave,

Thanks for the clarification.

Based off of only anecdotal evidence based on my own workouts I feel like I have lost more fat through strictly doing heavy weight-lifting than when I was running 15-20 miles a week.

Now, it might be that I lost the same amount of fat (or less fat than when I was doing cardio) but gained more muscle mass/definition through heavy lifting. However, I jumped on the treadmill this week after not doing any running for about 1-2 months and had no issues and was able to do 30 minutes at a 7.0-7.5 pace without discomfort.

I have done other cardio (surfing) for 2-3 hours on the weekends but it didn't match the cardio I was doing.

Again, purely anecdotal, but for me personally I feel better, feel like I look better (I was pretty damn sexy to begin with) and enjoy going to the gym more to jack steel than run.

I def agree you have to have a good mix of resistance training and aerobic activity to stay healthy. I would be curious to see how much fat heavy weightlifting burns compared to aerobic exercise.

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Now, it might be that I lost the same amount of fat (or less fat than when I was doing cardio) but gained more muscle mass/definition through heavy lifting.

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This.

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However, I jumped on the treadmill this week after not doing any running for about 1-2 months and had no issues and was able to do 30 minutes at a 7.0-7.5 pace without discomfort.

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This I absolutely can say - it IS proven that normal weight lifting does not really increase VO2 max or other measures of CV fitness.

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Again, purely anecdotal, but for me personally I feel better, feel like I look better (I was pretty damn sexy to begin with) and enjoy going to the gym more to jack steel than run.

I def agree you have to have a good mix of resistance training and aerobic activity to stay healthy. I would be curious to see how much fat heavy weightlifting burns compared to aerobic exercise.

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This is why prescribing exercise isn't one-size-fits-all. It's different based on what you enjoy, and what your primary goal is (look better, be alive longer, etc.)

I'll try to tease the information you're curious about out of one of my exercise phys professors from undergrad... I don't have good access to any good journals right now.

RTT, 95% of your weight loss happens in the kitchen, not the gym.

Here's a great tool for what to eat, and where to get your calories from

http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/

Plug in your stats, including your body fat, and set activity level on couch potato (to get the lowest calorie daily calorie burn)

Put your calorie goals at "aggressive" (-20%) and follow it. Eating enough protein is going to be key in stopping your body from cannibalizing your muscle mass.

I would recommend SS 5x5 as mentioned above, it's a very easy program to stick to, and you'll be doing some fantastic exercises which will strengthen your core, which will improve your quality of life a TON. If you like cardio, do light cardio at around 60% of your MHR for around 20-30 minutes or so. Again, that's going to be a drop in the bucket vs the calories you burn from restricting your diet but it all adds up and if you like it, keep doing it. Please don't do the three hours of cardio per day, you're going to hurt yourself, burn out, or burn up all of your muscle unless you're continuously chowing protein which kind of defeats the purpose of eating right.

Cave,

Thanks for the response! I look forward to reading anything you can find out.