"A teenager is lucky to be alive after the in-drive computer of his Honda SUV took control and sent him helplessly careering through the streets at speeds of up to 113mph - only stopping when heroic cops let him crash into their patrol cars. "



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13923427/Minnesota-Honda-Pilot-police-chase-Sam-Dutcher.html

What could this driver have done to stop the car?

Shift into neutral and turn off the engine?

Apparently he tried to engage the electronic e brake but that failed.

You shift it to neutral

Question is if you have an electronic shifter, will it allow you to shift to neutral?

And why wouldn't his breaks work?

Shift to neutral, stand on the brakes, try the parking brake, start pulling fuses. Any number of things to do and I'm betting this kid did not do any of them but just lock up and panic.

Looks like he tried those things per the 911 report:


A 911 incident report from the Clay County Sheriff's Office includes a "CAD (Computer Aided Dispatch) Narrative" transcript that shows Deputy Zach Johnson "Maintained phone contact with the male driver and attempted to have him disable the vehicle to slow it down. This was unsuccessful due to the vehicle not allowing him to shift to neutral, apply the brakes, or shut it off. Vehicle was stopped after an intentional 10-50 with MNSP (Minnesota State Patrol), assisted at the scene where it was stopped."

akaggie05 said:

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Shift to neutral, stand on the brakes, try the parking brake, start pulling fuses. Any number of things to do and I'm betting this kid did not do any of them but just lock up and panic.

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Highly doubt a fuse panel is accessible when behind the wheel and seatbelted in place.

Brakes, check my floor mats/look for an obstruction, Neutral, ignition, e-brake would be my order of attempts I think

ByrdEWhiteTrash said:

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Looks like he tried those things per the 911 report:


A 911 incident report from the Clay County Sheriff's Office includes a "CAD (Computer Aided Dispatch) Narrative" transcript that shows Deputy Zach Johnson "Maintained phone contact with the male driver and attempted to have him disable the vehicle to slow it down. This was unsuccessful due to the vehicle not allowing him to shift to neutral, apply the brakes, or shut it off. Vehicle was stopped after an intentional 10-50 with MNSP (Minnesota State Patrol), assisted at the scene where it was stopped."

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That is terrifying. Just watched the video. It's interesting that the Honda forward collision mitigation system was able to override and slow the car down to a certain point before it made contact with the patrol car. Super weird situation. Impressive how calm the police were the whole time.

I just don't buy the "wouldn't allow him to apply the brakes" thing. Unlike all of the other buttonology tied to computers in modern vehicles, there is still a direct mechanical linkage from brake pedal to the piston in the master cylinder. The brakes should work unless there was some other catastrophic failure, loss of all brake fluid, etc.

akaggie05 said:

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I just don't buy the "wouldn't allow him to apply the brakes" thing. Unlike all of the other buttonology tied to computers in modern vehicles, there is still a direct mechanical linkage from brake pedal to the piston in the master cylinder. The brakes should work unless there was some other catastrophic failure, loss of all brake fluid, etc.

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The more I think about it, the more I agree. I'm guessing floor mats.

https://reddit.com/r/hondapilot/comments/1fvaegp/has_anyone_heard_anymore_information_about_this/

Pilot is not brake by wire, and the collision mitigation system was able to apply the brakes, so the brake system was functioning.

Haven't like 99.99% of these stories been debunked as driver and/or mechanical (e.g. floor mat) errors?

The idea that the car just does whatever the hell it wants to do rarely, if ever, holds up to scrutiny.

From Garland's link:

one of the reddit comments:

Dumb kid gets accelerator pedal stuck under floormat and kept driving using the brakes to modulate for miles until they completely overheated and boiled the fluid would be my bet. By the time he called for help his brakes were probably gone and he was going fast enough they didn't want him looking down to play with floormats. I think the start button/shifter might require the brakes to be engaged and if he'd given up on using the brakes he may not have been thinking to press the brake pedal while trying to shift to neutral or turn off the car. Turning off the car might lock the steering so that may not have been something they wanted to try.

I had the unintentional acceleration happen in a Toyota Allion when I was in Japan back in 2009 or 2012. It was the floor mat stuck on the accelerator. Simple brake application held the car in place until I could remove the floor mat.

I've never been in a car where you have to engage the brake to put a car from drive to neutral.

Concur it was floor mat. Almost every rental I get lately has mats removed. Lack of mechanical knowledge compounded the problem

I do wonder if it accelerated to 113, or he was speeding, then couldn't fix it

Thank God it wasn't in Arkansas, they probably would have PIT maneuvered him.

Malcolm Gladwell did a podcast about this a few years ago. Can't remember the specific make or model but it was always certainly driver error.

NoahAg said:

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Malcolm Gladwell did a podcast about this a few years ago. Can't remember the specific make or model but it was always certainly driver error.

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This. It was a really interesting podcast I think his "Revisionist History". He talked about some phenomenon where the driver thinks and would later swear that he was standing on the brake but was actually on the gas. They also did a test where I think they rigged a car to be 100% on the throttle but then try to brake and the brakes won out over the gas every time. So yeah essentially debunked the "unintended acceleration" b.s.

When I was in high school, my 2000 F250 started randomly dying. The first time it happened, Dad pumped the gas a bunch while restarting and it ran fine. Just kept doing it about every week but having seen Dad get it started, I was able to the same thing. Even got good enough that I would shift into neutral and restart the engine while still driving down the road. The issue wound up being a faulty fuel gauge and I was really just running out of diesel but I got so comfortable with it, I started turning the truck off on purpose to coast into my destinations. Shift to neutral, key off, into accessory, coast. Brakes and steering were stiff but workable. Could even throw in the parking brake for maximum stealth (as much as a 3-ton pickup can be).

I've always wondered how people can screw this up until I bought a 2019 with electric shift and an electric parking brake. It's terrible. It often shifts me out of drive or neutral when I do something it doesn't like (ie start to let off the brake with the door open, shift too soon after start, put in neutral but not confirm via tapping the brakes, etc...)

It will let me shift into neutral going down the road but I have yet to be brave enough to try and shut it off at speed. I'm too worried it'll lock the brakes or shift to park or lock the steering wheel or something else crazy.

GarlandAg2012 said:

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akaggie05 said:

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Shift to neutral, stand on the brakes, try the parking brake, start pulling fuses. Any number of things to do and I'm betting this kid did not do any of them but just lock up and panic.

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Highly doubt a fuse panel is accessible when behind the wheel and seatbelted in place.

Brakes, check my floor mats/look for an obstruction, Neutral, ignition, e-brake would be my order of attempts I think

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This is my thought. Had to be multiple mats on the floor.

this an On Patrol Live Triple play last week
there's video