I'm perusing autotrader/cars.com/caravans type websites for a family sedan gas saver. Originally was looking for Honda Accord or Civic, or Toyota Camry or Corolla. Widened the search after seeing how much they cost, and it seems I can get a Jetta for less money and get a little better fuel mileage.

I'm looking specifically for manual transmission, newer than 2014 or so, and less than or around 100K mileage. Budget is $10-$15K, but would go higher for a good deal on a little newer one. This will be a 3rd vehicle for hauling kids to baseball, gymnastics, grocery store, etc. It will also be in anticipation of a now 14 year old to have a first beater car. I want him and his brother to learn to drive a manual.

Talk me out if a Jetta. I also keyed in on Mazda3 sedans. Both of which are close to or at 40 mpg estimated on the highway and several thousand $$$$ less than the Hondas and Toyotas. Anyone here have experience with either of those two cars?

Anyone have one they are thinking of upgrading soon? It's surprising there are not many private sellers out there. I'm not in a huge hurry. I'm thinking of waiting till after tax return season when a bunch of these cars get traded in for new ones (may be wishful thinking?)

Thanks in advance for the help! I already looked at minivans (seriously), they don't meet the mileage needs/wants.

I'm sure it varies by model and era but I don't have a good perception about Volkswagen quality. My mom drove a manual Beetle with diesel engine to like 300K miles, but with other family or friends I've seen issues around 100K and lots of cosmetic wear.

I'd personally much prefer Mazda, I like the driving feel and the 2.5L naturally aspirated engine will last a long time.

Complete Idiot said:

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I'm sure it varies by model and era but I don't have a good perception about Volkswagen quality. My mom drove a manual Beetle with diesel engine to like 300K miles, but with other family or friends I've seen issues around 100K and lots of cosmetic wear.

I'd personally much prefer Mazda, I like the driving feel and the 2.5L naturally aspirated engine will last a long time.

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This is basically the feedback I'm expecting. There is usually a reason they are cheaper. Mazda is getting higher on my list, but they are also a little harder to find. Thanks for the response.

I will add that I'm looking for value now, we plan to drive it into the ground. Not looking at resale value necessarily.

The VW will be less reliable than the Japanese cars and cost significantly more to repair.

I have a '14 Jetta TDI I commute in that's been great. With the 6 spd it's surprisingly sporty to drive, and the cabin is quiet and comfortable. Using a decibel meter on my phone, it's as quiet as a brand new Camry I've ridden in. It had a front end collision before I bought it, and they could've done a better job fixing the exterior, but it looks fine at 10 ft away.

However, I couldn't recommend buying one in that price range, there's too many other options that would be a better buy. I paid $7500 for mine in 2020 and it had 25k miles of warranty left from the dieselgate settlement, so I was willing to take a chance on it. I had the entire emissions replaced within months of buying it, next time it goes out I'll delete it. I've got a great mechanic that takes care of it, as long as he tells me drive it I will. My goal is 300k, at that point I'll probably buy a Lexus. However, I'm a glutton for punishment, and the Golf R looks like it would be a ton of fun.

+1 on the TDI. I had a 2011 that got bought back after dieselgate and still miss that car sometimes. I actually ran the VIN through google a few years ago and found it for sale at a dealer in Tulsa. Should have bought it again.

CenterHillAg said:

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I have a '14 Jetta TDI I commute in that's been great. With the 6 spd it's surprisingly sporty to drive, and the cabin is quiet and comfortable. Using a decibel meter on my phone, it's as quiet as a brand new Camry I've ridden in. It had a front end collision before I bought it, and they could've done a better job fixing the exterior, but it looks fine at 10 ft away.

However, I couldn't recommend buying one in that price range, there's too many other options that would be a better buy. I paid $7500 for mine in 2020 and it had 25k miles of warranty left from the dieselgate settlement, so I was willing to take a chance on it. I had the entire emissions replaced within months of buying it, next time it goes out I'll delete it. I've got a great mechanic that takes care of it, as long as he tells me drive it I will. My goal is 300k, at that point I'll probably buy a Lexus. However, I'm a glutton for punishment, and the Golf R looks like it would be a ton of fun.

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What other options are you referring to that would be better? Prices have gone up since 2020, so your $7500 would be in my listed range now, unfortunately.

What kind of MPG do y'all get out of the TDI diesels? I have been ignoring them just because fuel prices are 30+ percent higher, so I'd have to get +50 MPG to justify it....but longevity counts for something.

I have had two dieselgate jettas. My current commuter is a 15 TDI. I drove the 2010 I had previously to 270k miles with no issues except routine maintenance. The 15 has had nothing but routine maintenance and it is setting at 107k.

I don't think they are great cars but for me, one pays for itself in mileage in about a year. They aren't luxury by any means and long trips in the passenger seat aren't comfortable. I would buy another one for the next commuter if I came across one.

I get about 42 on the highway.

I get 38-41 mpg hand calculated at 72 mph, 90% highway miles. Supposedly they'll get closer to 50 mph once deleted like they did before the emissions stuff. The breakeven was something like 60k miles for the delete to pay for itself with increased mileage when I looked into it a while back, so I decided to wait until my hand is forced. I've always liked the TDI's, I bought it out of curiosity as much as anything.

For starters the Mazda 3, they're reliable and still fairly simple. A friend has a Hyundai Veloster that's been a good car, they were in the same price range. A well maintained Camry with higher mileage in that price range would be a safe bet too. You might give up the option for standard transmissions as a compromise though. I love them and own 3 manual vehicles, but they're unfortunately dinosaurs that will never make a comeback.

CenterHillAg said:

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For starters the Mazda 3, they're reliable and still fairly simple. A friend has a Hyundai Veloster that's been a good car, they were in the same price range. A well maintained Camry with higher mileage in that price range would be a safe bet too. You might give up the option for standard transmissions as a compromise though. I love them and own 3 manual vehicles, but they're unfortunately dinosaurs that will never make a comeback.

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You're right on the manual. I think at this point my heels are dug in, but I can already tell I'll have to be more patient on finding one. Soon to be dinosaurs, like me. That's one of the reasons I want one too, pretty soon it won't be an option. I hated my wife's manual Civic when we had it back in my college days, but I honestly kind of miss it. It sounded like a mix of pissed off bees and rubber band twang at 80 MPH, but the only problem we ever had with it was a crack in the exhaust manifold. I've been a Honda fan since (we have a CR-V now as well).

Mazda may be the winning ticket unless I can actually find a Camry/Accord that isn't $5K or more over the others.

ET1/SS Aggie said:

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I have had two dieselgate jettas. My current commuter is a 15 TDI. I drove the 2010 I had previously to 270k miles with no issues except routine maintenance. The 15 has had nothing but routine maintenance and it is setting at 107k.

I don't think they are great cars but for me, one pays for itself in mileage in about a year. They aren't luxury by any means and long trips in the passenger seat aren't comfortable. I would buy another one for the next commuter if I came across one.

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Is 'dieselgate' when VW got caught faking emissions testing or something to that effect? I vaguely remember reading about it.

Yeah. It worked out well for us. They gave us like 5500 dollars for our first one and did all the upgrades for free. I lost about 3mpg.

The second one was a car that they bought back from someone with only about 15k miles on it. They did all of the upgrades and then we bought it fairly cheap and got a really great warranty for free.

I don't know that I would ever buy a new VW because of the scandal, I also now refuse to deal with VW dealers. I think they are decent commuter cars and serve their purpose. I'm a truck guy in general so I solely use mine for having to drive for work.

I will also tell you this, I'd you can find a TDI sportwagon, there is a cult following on them so if you don't like it, you can easily sell it.

So far, this thread's TLDR version is like this....

Current VW owners: "Don't buy a VW."

Unfortunately. I really like the car, but I don't trust that my results can be replicated. They just don't have the track record of reliability like the Japanese cars. I'd still take it over an American compact, everyone of them looks trashed by 3 years old.

Not a direct comparison but I have a 2013 Passat 5 speed manual gas (not diesel). still going strong.

i would absolutely buy a gas Passat or Jetta again if the price is right with good maintenance records. if its taken care of they will last a long time. The quality I've seen is well above the perceived quality of these cars. Repairs can be pricey but i am keeping it forever so i don't mind doing the repairs correctly and timely.

But there is no way I would spend more than 10k on them unless you are under 100k like you are searching for. I don't see the value above that price point.

My 2013 Golf is 2.5 gas and 6 speed auto. Only drivetrain issue I had was the throttle body. I believe the replacement was $200 and wasn't terrible to replace, smaller hands would've helped. However, I suspect that the ABS module is bad and the dash is lit up like a Christmas tree.

Jettas are great, and parts bin is DEEP with other VW/Audi/Skoda models.

More engaging to drive than a Japanese car, but you have to maintain them more diligently, which is a feature of German car ownership.

I have a 2008 GLI with 135k miles on it. API Stage 2 tune, S3 suspension components and intercooler, Golf R32 brakes, and still on original clutch. It's got its quirks, but it still feels solid and is fun to drive as a DD.

Previously owned a 2010 TDI wagon, fully deleted and tuned that I sold back to VW, and I miss that car a lot.

We bought a 2017 Jetta GLI with a stick in Feb 2020 for my son. It was $17,200 and had about 16k miles on it. So far its been a great car for my son both in and around Houston and then he has a 9 hour commute to school so has made that trek a few times. Its a little plain as far as materials, but fit and finish and mechanically has been fine so far. Whenever he is home I always have to drive the manual for fun.

How about a Ford Fusion Hybrid?

aggiepaintrain said:

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How about a Ford Fusion Hybrid?

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I drove a Fusion as a work-provided car for a couple years. It wasn't a bad car at all, but nothing to write home about. I don't want a hybrid at this point, I do 99% of my own mechanic work, and that would go out the window with a hybrid. I have a '04 Cummins truck that I've driven since 2008. It has never seen the inside of a shop (besides my own) except for tires and alignment.

Not a bad suggestion by any means, just not for me.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. Good discussion and very helpful.

The kid has had 2 Mazda3 sedans (2012 and 2014), both totaled when they were rear ended by an suv. Walked away both times. 2nd time there were rear passengers. Great car for the $ with plenty of features. You may be more likely to find a manual hatchback than a sedan. 2014 was the 1st year of total redesign.

Well done teaching the kid to drive a manual. That's how I learned.....'74 MGB. It's an underappreciated skill.

Had a 2005 Jetta TDI 5 speed bought it brand new. Loved the car initially and did great fuel wise about 50 to 52 mpg on trips. When things started to happen, they happened one after another and with roughly 120K miles. Sold the car and went Nissan Altima and have never looked back, get about 40 to42 mpg on trips and no problems whatsoever. I do feel Volkswagon is not up to par with the Japanese models. Only my opinion and we usally run a car 10 years.

magnumtmp said:

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So far, this thread's TLDR version is like this....

Current VW owners: "Don't buy a VW."

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Are you buying new or used? I do the maintenance work for my parents cars (Both VW) and I can tell you the following are likely issues for you:

The engineer who designed the coolant drain for VW deserveres to have their legs broken. Instead of using a pet-cock they need you to pull off the coolant flange. There's a really badly made "o ring" like concave thing built in that tends to fail after you flush the coolant a few times. Get an aftermarket one which uses the o-ring or risk dumping all your coolant.

Oil rings have issues, especially on the 1.8T, only solution is an engine rebuild but it just progressively gets worse.

Plastic oil pan gets dented (and smashed) easily if you're rural. Don't go for aluminium if you value your engine and go for steel instead.

Pulling a spark plug boot is extremely hard, like caring about pull out day hard.

Fuel rail wiring harness will fail eventually.

Oil pan plug will need to be replaced every oil change, may strip the pan if you're not careful.

You'll need a large socket that's not usually avalible to remove the oil filter.

Turbo wastegate likes to fail

PCV diaphram likes to fail

Good luck finding a mechanic if you live rurally.

My 2004 Jetta GLI was the biggest POS I've ever owned and I go through cars every 2-3 years. I will never own another VW.

Get a mazdaspeed 3 if you want real manual fun. Or a focus st.

erudite said:

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magnumtmp said:

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So far, this thread's TLDR version is like this....

Current VW owners: "Don't buy a VW."

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Are you buying new or used? I do the maintenance work for my parents cars (Both VW) and I can tell you the following are likely issues for you:

The engineer who designed the coolant drain for VW deserveres to have their legs broken. Instead of using a pet-cock they need you to pull off the coolant flange. There's a really badly made "o ring" like concave thing built in that tends to fail after you flush the coolant a few times. Get an aftermarket one which uses the o-ring or risk dumping all your coolant.

Oil rings have issues, especially on the 1.8T, only solution is an engine rebuild but it just progressively gets worse.

Plastic oil pan gets dented (and smashed) easily if you're rural. Don't go for aluminium if you value your engine and go for steel instead.

Pulling a spark plug boot is extremely hard, like caring about pull out day hard.

Fuel rail wiring harness will fail eventually.

Oil pan plug will need to be replaced every oil change, may strip the pan if you're not careful.

You'll need a large socket that's not usually avalible to remove the oil filter.

Turbo wastegate likes to fail

PCV diaphram likes to fail

Good luck finding a mechanic if you live rurally.

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Fumoto valve and a Dieselgeek skid plate are both really good mods for these cars.

Add to that list carbon cleaning the valves like any direct injection car.

The thank y'all for the info. I'm on the look out for a good deal on a Mazda3 or maybe even a Mazda6. Still would do a Yota or Honda too. Good thing is I'm not in a hurry!

Had a 2000 Jetta in college and it smelled like crayons and was slow as hell. Chicks dogged the blue dash lights though.

magnumtmp said:

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The thank y'all for the info. I'm on the look out for a good deal on a Mazda3 or maybe even a Mazda6. Still would do a Yota or Honda too. Good thing is I'm not in a hurry!

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It's a bit of a unicorn, but the Mazda6 is available w/ a manual.

I have a 2015 (auto) as the family/daily driver, and it's been trouble free up to this point (111K miles).

gggmann said:

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magnumtmp said:

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The thank y'all for the info. I'm on the look out for a good deal on a Mazda3 or maybe even a Mazda6. Still would do a Yota or Honda too. Good thing is I'm not in a hurry!

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It's a bit of a unicorn, but the Mazda6 is available w/ a manual.

I have a 2015 (auto) as the family/daily driver, and it's been trouble free up to this point (111K miles).

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You're right, the manuals are harder to find, but I've seen a few.

I have a 2016 Jetta that I bought for about $10k. I love it. It has been a great car and is pretty fun to drive as well.