I bought a 2013 Explorer Sport in August. I love it, but I think it is more car than I need, and I think I'd love $15,000 back in my bank account more. What does the Auto Board know about 2013-2015 Focus STs? This seems like a "mini" version of my Explorer. Hatchback, Booooost, MFT (love it, stfu haters), 0-60 same, etc.

But it's 10mpg better, 6 spd manual tranny, and I assume corners better than the Exploder. Cramming 3 kids in will suck, but we have my wife's JX35 for that.

I've thought about:
Mazdaspeed 3: looks too ricey to me.
GTI: VW seems like the hassle of owning a BMW or Mercedes without the joy. Tell me I'm wrong.
Subaru Crosstrek: AWD is appealing. My family can't fit into my TJ anymore. AWD is one of the main reasons I got the Explorer. I've heard they are dog slow though.

Thoughts?

If the Subaru has the same 2.5L N/A flat four that the Outback has, then yes they are dog slow. I'm pretty sure the 26' Uhaul I rented a few months ago could outrun my mother's Outback. It's the most under powered vehicle I've driven in recent memory.

I know all of these cars pretty well. Own a Focus ST. Wish I didn't as it is a horrible fit for my situation.

Focus - very small, can't fit three kids in back unless they are all really small, can't do three car seats. Fun to drive but tremendous torque steer. Steering wheel really jumps in your hands. Fantastic traction control. Loses value so fast.

MazdaSpeed 3 - good car. Feels bigger than the ST and goes fast. Hold their value pretty well. Drove one for about a month as a demo. Really thought about buying it.

GTI - best car on your list by a large margin. One of the very best cars made at any price and dollar for dollar probably the best car made. So fun to drive, good room inside, goes well, just does everything near perfect. The 15 GTI is one of the best cars ever. Seriously, it is one of the 10 best cars ever. I worked for VW for 4 years and the GTI is the only VW I would own. Cost to own is low and resale value is crazy high.

Crosstrek - if they made this with the Forester XT engine I would buy one in a second, but they don't. The 140 hp engine combined with the CVT just ruined the car for me. Drives well but it buzzes at you the whole way. Horrible Subaru seats and generic interior. Tiny inside. I would love this car so much with 225-250 hp, I wouldn't buy one as they are made. I have owned two WRX's and have driven all of their cars extensively as our dealer group owned a Subaru dealership. Subaru makes great stuff, but this car needs more juice.

13 explorer - Eh. Boring to drive but gets the job done, especially with 3 kids. Trade value will be horrible. They really aren't very good, but it is what it is.


Of your list, you will have zero regrets trading for the GTI four door. You will never want to get rid of it. The rest are just cars.

Jetta or Golf Sportwagen TDI (depending on which year you buy)
6 speed
Stage 2 Malone Tune (~$500)
Rear Sway bar for better handling

40+ mpg and it will hang with those other hot hatches up to 100-120 until the diesel just doesn't have the revs.
Plus, you will have enough room behind the seats to store things unlike in a hatchback.

Still, three kids in any of these cars might be tight.

I had a Subaru Impreza with the same 2.0 as the Crosstrek. 0-60 in 9-10 seconds. Anemic but a good DD. Sold it for an older WRX and am much happier.

Coming from an Explorer Sport, I'd avoid any Subaru save for the WRX. You'll miss the power.

That's kind of a weird Subaru to compare. The wrx is a much closer competitor to the st.

I'm looking at the st right now, it will depend on how well my two boys fit in the back

I want a hatchback/wagon. IIRC, the WRX only comes in a hatch up to 2012?

For there were a turbo/sport version of the Crosstrek, that would be my pick. Like Dill said, I can't go to something with no balls after driving the Explorer Sport. I will hate it.

On the VW, should/could I even buy a TDI right now? Is their reliability better than it used to be? Everyone I know that has owned a VW typically likes the car but complains constantly about all of the little things that break and go wrong. They sound like Jeep owners, and I already have a Jeep.

I'll test drive a 2015 GTI before I buy anything. I'm trying to keep it below 20k, which will be tough for a 2015 GTI.

If you're dead set on getting a smaller, sportier vehicle then I probably can't change your mind. But a '13 Explorer Sport is a nice daily driver and your kids are only going to get bigger As stated above your trade value at this point in the Explorer's life is going to be horrible and you'll probably be paying on the new vehicle even longer. If the wife's car is in the shop or wrecked or whatever it's going to be hell to get your entire family into one of the smaller vehicles you're looking at.

I'd stay with the Explorer Sport.....

Does this have to be a new car?

A 2012 WRX hatch would be a blast, but the interior quality is pretty meh.

You won't be able to buy a new TDI right now, but there are always plenty of Jetta Sportwagen TDIs for sale in the used market.

The big maintenance items on a 2.0 TDI are:

• DPF filter (book says 120k, but generally needs replaced around 100k miles)
• intake manifold flapper motor (usually gets sooted up due to the EGR - best to replace the intake manifold)
• timing belt (every 120k)
• High Pressure Fuel Filter (every 20k)

There are people on the TDI forums running their 2.0 common rail TDIs to well over 200k miles without many issues. Diesels are more expensive to maintain, and you can always do a DPF and EGR delete if you want to eliminate that bit of maintenance.

Electronics on a german car (window motors, door lock motors, etc) will always fail faster than they do on Japanese cars.

Avoid vw like the plague. Our has been nothing but problems. 06 tdi - dmf failed, headliner failed, egr failed twice, ac system failed (ended up being $50 sensor but dealers wanted to replace whole system), front hubs failed, sun roof randomly Opens on its own causing water damage inside. Dsg service is $400 every 40k, timing belt is 950-1200 every 80-90k. Suspect cam issues and has obvious fuel pump gasket leak. Has 180k on it now, trying to squeak every penny worth out of this pos.

Grandparents had a 06 tdi with a dmf failure at 80k. Parents have a 13 tdi that is slowly losing water and oil over 10-20k miles. (Oil over the 10k change period).

Bought 15 xv crosstrek. Not a bad vehicle. Slow but faster than the 06 tdi. Feels zippy around town with the reprogrammed cvt the 15s got (may have been 14 too I don't remember). Has a few things I need to take it in for - front end vibrates badly and awd system clunks badly when drive/reverse engaged.

My 13 f150 boost has been a total pos and ford can kiss my ass for how they treated me with that. Airbag light "repaired" 4 times, complete loss of power at a rolling stop, waited 5 weeks for parts on airbag repair, has a loud pop from engine bay when you shut engine off (suspect it's the blow off valve system), ac system doesn't blow cold from side vents, driver windows sound like a ratchet when rolling up, drive by wire system is whack - at start up each am you put in gear and slightly press throttle truck things you've gunned it and throws you back out the driveway, small things like key fob is fishy - have to hit button 3-4 times right next to the truck to get it to work, tranny shifts extremely hard from 2-4 in stop and go traffic and jerks hard from 4-6 at slight throttle - all I can remember at the moment. This thing is now the 3rd vehicle and will be traded off in next few years. I'd avoid ford like the plague.

My .02 from my experience.

Not to downplay your personal experience, but 2006 was still the Pumpe Dse engine, not the new Common Rail engine. The CRs seem to be much more reliable.


Are the DMF failures only on the DSG-equipped cars?

WRX was hatch up until 2014

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Avoid vw like the plague. Our has been nothing but problems. 06 tdi - dmf failed, headliner failed, egr failed twice, ac system failed (ended up being $50 sensor but dealers wanted to replace whole system), front hubs failed, sun roof randomly Opens on its own causing water damage inside. Dsg service is $400 every 40k, timing belt is 950-1200 every 80-90k. Suspect cam issues and has obvious fuel pump gasket leak. Has 180k on it now, trying to squeak every penny worth out of this pos.

Grandparents had a 06 tdi with a dmf failure at 80k. Parents have a 13 tdi that is slowly losing water and oil over 10-20k miles. (Oil over the 10k change period).

Bought 15 xv crosstrek. Not a bad vehicle. Slow but faster than the 06 tdi. Feels zippy around town with the reprogrammed cvt the 15s got (may have been 14 too I don't remember). Has a few things I need to take it in for - front end vibrates badly and awd system clunks badly when drive/reverse engaged.

My 13 f150 boost has been a total pos and ford can kiss my ass for how they treated me with that. Airbag light "repaired" 4 times, complete loss of power at a rolling stop, waited 5 weeks for parts on airbag repair, has a loud pop from engine bay when you shut engine off (suspect it's the blow off valve system), ac system doesn't blow cold from side vents, driver windows sound like a ratchet when rolling up, drive by wire system is whack - at start up each am you put in gear and slightly press throttle truck things you've gunned it and throws you back out the driveway, small things like key fob is fishy - have to hit button 3-4 times right next to the truck to get it to work, tranny shifts extremely hard from 2-4 in stop and go traffic and jerks hard from 4-6 at slight throttle - all I can remember at the moment. This thing is now the 3rd vehicle and will be traded off in next few years. I'd avoid ford like the plague.

My .02 from my experience.

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Can you imagine that Crosstrek with 225-250 HP. I will never understand car companies refusal to correct an error, and they all do it. The crosstrek engine is an error.

I can't recommend a VW diesel to anyone. Sure they get better mileage but the fuel and maintenance costs so stinking much. The drive sucks and they really don't last longer than a gas engine anymore.

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If you're dead set on getting a smaller, sportier vehicle then I probably can't change your mind. But a '13 Explorer Sport is a nice daily driver and your kids are only going to get bigger As stated above your trade value at this point in the Explorer's life is going to be horrible and you'll probably be paying on the new vehicle even longer. If the wife's car is in the shop or wrecked or whatever it's going to be hell to get your entire family into one of the smaller vehicles you're looking at.

I'd stay with the Explorer Sport.....

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I like the Explorer sport. A lot. But we are trying to simplify/downsize and this seems like an easy place to start. I paid $34,700 for the Explorer. Current BB trade is $34,000. So not a bad hit at all.

My wife's car is from Sewell so we get QX60 loaners when it is in the shop.

The only issue really is if I know I'm driving around 3 other grown men for work, I would need to take her car, which means she would have to deal with the compact plus 3 kids for the day. That might not work.

Jetta Sportwagen may be the way to go.

Are used TDIs being discounted because of the VW scandal?

We've got a 2014 Subaru Forester XT (the one with the WRX engine). Little bigger than the crosstrek, but similar kind of vehicle I think, just has a lot more get up & go!

I drove a 2015 ST and a 2016 GTI today. I like the GTI more. I'd love to find a 2015 with a few miles on it.

3 kids seems to be the crux.

Maybe grown *** man wrx: regal GS awd?

Forester XT might fit the bill if you need more room

can you get one without a CVT?

Bought a 2015 GTI when they first came out for commuting to/from work. Put over 22k miles on it in a year and a half. It's averaging 30mpg and is driven hard. It's huge inside and fun to drive. No problems with it. Definitely recommend it.

no

Yeah, three kids is really messing everything up.

I'm going to drive this Jetta TDI 6spd today. Used TDIs are cheap.

http://www.vwofthewoodlands.com/vehicle-details/2013-volkswagen-jetta-sedan-tdi-the-woodlands-tx-id-11840443

Thoughts? Would better fit 3 kids, still be fun to drive. I could use some of the money I'm "saving" to amp performance a bit. I'm basically rolling the dice that I can get away with owning a TDI and not getting the fix done to it, correct?

Another thought is sell the Exploder and the TJ and buy a used 4 door JK for cash. I'd have a Jeep that the family could all ride in, it should fit 3 kids. But I'd be looking at a 2007-2009 with 50-70k miles for ~$20,000, so maintenance and repair could suck. And I'd have a Jeep EDD that gets crappy gas mileage.

I don't know WTF to do. They better appreciate this when they are grown up.

Willing to sell a 2012 Speed3 with only 27k miles.

Garaged and not tracked.

Email in profile if interested.

Willing to sell my 2003 Honda Accord. Never raced or tracked. Could make you a smoking deal. "Only" 266k miles. Runs strong. I know you miss your old Accord.

You are throwing around too many conflicting goals. What are your main two objectives with this change?

Hatchback that is fun and able to accommodate three kids on rare occasion?

I'll throw out the Lexus ct200h as an option. Lexus is bullet proof. It won't have the fun horse power but it will be a nice ride. A 2012-2013 should keep you around $20k.

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Another thought is sell the Exploder and the TJ and buy a used 4 door JK for cash. I'd have a Jeep that the family could all ride in, it should fit 3 kids. But I'd be looking at a 2007-2009 with 50-70k miles for ~$20,000, so maintenance and repair could suck. And I'd have a Jeep EDD that gets crappy gas mileage.

I don't know WTF to do. They better appreciate this when they are grown up.

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Wait if this is an option, how about sell the explorer and tj, buy a nice fj80 for 10-12k then get dubi's speed3. The cruiser keeps your off-road need and when you absolutely have to take the kids you have a third row for them. The speed 3 can be the fast commuter that doesn't ever have the kids in it.

I ended up with a 2013 Jetta TDI. I'll post a rule 1 thread. Thanks, Texags!

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I ended up with a 2013 Jetta TDI. I'll post a rule 1 thread. Thanks, Texags!

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Das auto!