Car shopping for our daughter. We’re leaning towards a CRV at the moment (does well in crash tests, daughter likes the body style and it’s a Honda so it will probably last a long time). The RAV4 didn’t make the cut for the wifey due to its crash test results not being close to the CRV (according to her). I also suggested the Mazda CX5 but the daughter prefers a Honda due to their durability.

One other vehicle we are looking at is the Subaru Forrester. Looks like they are making a lot changes to the ’14 as compared to the ’13. Personally, I would prefer to go with the ’13 since it means $1000 off the sticker.

Looks like the sticker is a little lower for the Forrester. However, so is the gas mileage.

We’re probably going to go with the CRV, but I was interested in any thoughts any might have.

Thanks in advance.

Rule #1 on the daughter!

I'd drive them and see which one she likes best. They should all be reliable.

The new Forrester is a lot better, and will be more functional long term over the CRV.

Both are built well...you seem to know that about Hondas but don't sleep on the Subies. They're good, too.

I think difference in mileage is splitting hairs. 24/31 vs 24/32. You won't notice a difference, and their CVT is one of the better ones on the market.

Personally, I'd go with the Subaru. Its more functional and if you ever need to go on dirt, its far more capable.

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Rule #1 on the daughter!

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Personally, I'd go with the Subaru. Its more functional

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Interesting.

Thanks for the input.

Subaru has had AWD down for a long time. Their system is very good.

My buddy's got a '12 Forester - loves it. I have a '12 Impreza - LOVE it.

Very reliable vehicles. Compare the fuel economy and check out fuelly.com for real-world averages. My Impreza is supposed to get 36 on the highway and I do about 31/32 on a good day. Could be the ethanol but it's certainly not as good as it should be.

CRV = 5 star crash rating.

Forester = 4 star crash rating.

That would make the decision easy for me between those two; however, I would pick '13 Santa Fe over CRV (and I own two Hondas).



[This message has been edited by Slschultz02 (edited 5/30/2013 9:20p).]

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CRV = 5 star crash rating.

Forester = 4 star crash rating.

That would make the decision easy for me between those two; however, I would pick '13 Santa Fe over CRV (and I own two Hondas).

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The 2014 Forester has a better IIHS crash rating than the CRV. The Forester was "good", the CRV was "marginal", two steps lower than "good".

Pretty crazy the CRV fell that much in one year.

I'd get the Forester with the most powerful engine they offer.

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I'd get the Forester with the most powerful engine they offer.

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Me too, the XT model has the turbo.

I'm on my second WRX and love subarus.

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Pretty crazy the CRV fell that much in one year.

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That is odd.

Thanks for all the input.

The Honda name is playing into this as well with the wife and daughter (wife has a Pilot). Kind of reminds me of the days when you were either a Ford guy or a Chevy guy.

i think they started a new offset crash test which a lot of cars are having trouble getting good ratings on.

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Pretty crazy the CRV fell that much in one year.

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I don't think the current CRV is less safe than the previous one.

The tests change regularly.

The IIHS rates the 2013 CRV as a "Top Safety Pick." It was rated Marginal on the "small overlap front test."

http://www.iihs.org/RATINGS/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=307

The 2013 Forester was rated by the IIHS as a "Top Safety Pick +" which is slightly better than the CR-V. Probably because the Forester was rated "Good" on the the "small overlap front test."

Their summary of small SUVs is below:

http://www.iihs.org/RATINGS/summary.aspx?class=58

If safety is real high on your list, stay away from the Wrangler (as usual) and Nissan Rogue.

I can't believe nobody has thrown the Escape Ecoboost out there.

Have your daughter drive the Forester before deciding. AWD is great for the snowy winters.

Forester is also all wheel drive standard, which will help avoid accidents in the first place.

Just FYI, there are very few issues with Mazdas these days since the RX8 is dead and the '14 CX-5 has been a great car for my wife so far after our problem-free '06 M6 was totaled. The CX-5 was not my first choice by far, but she loves it and it's growing on me.

As much as I like the new Escape, I am not sold in the least on the Ecoboost 4 cylinder engines. I think Ford has it all wrong actually. They are under-achieving in fuel economy.

I would like to actually see facts that AWD improves safety. I know for a fact that AWD/4WD decreases fuel efficiency, but I cant prove that it actually increases safety other than in low mu situations which you almost never encounter in Texas except for downpours on a hot asphalt road.

This idea also seems to be a US idea, since it is the only market in the world where AWD is over 20% of vehicles sold (US market is close to 50% AWD at least for our market segment).

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 5/31/2013 10:46a).]

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but I cant prove that it actually increases safety other than in low mu situations which you almost never encounter in Texas except for downpours on a hot asphalt road.

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So if it improves safety in those conditions, but doesn't harm safety in other conditions, doesn't that mean AWD improves safety?

I agree that the benefit of AWD is not significant for vehicles driven on pavement in good weather. But what benefit is a 5 sec 0-60 vs. 7 sec to most people?

I think though that higher HP (~300 HP) cars feel better in AWD than FWD.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 5/31/2013 10:57a).]

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I would like to actually see facts that AWD improves safety. I know for a fact that AWD/4WD decreases fuel efficiency, but I cant prove that it actually increases safety other than in low mu situations which you almost never encounter in Texas except for downpours on a hot asphalt road.

This idea also seems to be a US idea, since it is the only market in the world where AWD is over 20% of vehicles sold (US market is close to 50% AWD at least for our market segment).

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 5/31/2013 10:46a).]

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I can floor it around a wet corner and my wrx will just slide a little and correct once I release the gas when a rwd would fishtail and a fwd would go toward the high side.

It did cost me my first wrx when I got REALLY loose and overcorrected then Back forth back forth boom tree. Totaled car and only bruised my knee a little.

[This message has been edited by Drumboy (edited 5/31/2013 11:21a).]

Higher power vehicles feel better in AWD because they are able to put more of the power on the road. Depending on surface and tire quality, you can rarely put all of your torque down on the road without spinning your tires. Splitting your torque and having a lossy element (the AWD element in your transmission) which transfers power to the front wheels, or in the case of a Subaru, the rear wheels, you are able to put more torque down on the pavement.

That being said, we arent dragracing and I was wondering what the real safety benefit would be for this young lady.

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I would like to actually see facts that airbags improve safety. I know for a fact that airbags increase risk of injury in low speed crashes, but I cant prove that it actually increases safety other than in low mu situations which you almost never encounter in Texas except for getting in a high speed collision.

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fify

FWIW during the random ice storms we have gotten in Dallas the last couple years my Impreza was a beast.

Yes, Im certain that it helped in your low mu situations.

However, in typical driving situations I think that you spend a lot more on your fuel economy losses than you get in return in some mystical safety.

For those who arent automotive engineering inclined, low mu means times when your coefficient of friction is low, particularly these times are during oil spills, snow and ice and in Texas the lovely mixture of water and oil on hot asphalt.

Again Im not against it, Im just curious why Americans (up to 50% in premium segments) buy AWD when they need it <1% of the time in general. Since there are some of you that are clearly AWD believers, this helps the discussion, but doesnt actually provide me with any statistical evidence as to why this is the case.

Don't lie, you just wanted to throw out "µ" like no one here went to college and knew what it meant.

[This message has been edited by Aggietaco (edited 5/31/2013 12:31p).]

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Again Im not against it, Im just curious why Americans (up to 50% in premium segments) buy AWD when they need it <1% of the time in general. Since there are some of you that are clearly AWD believers, this helps the discussion, but doesn't actually provide me with any statistical evidence as to why this is the case.

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More than likely because that is what is available at the dealership. I would think (random statistic) < 25% of people who purchase AWD cars actually buy it because it is AWD.

Are people specifically requesting AWD and declining RWD/FWD?

Thats my question Column, is the American market being pressed into SAs that they dont want, while yall are already being pressed into the most expensive packages anyhow, or does the market actually want that?

Sorry for the major hijack, Ill post a new thread some time in the next few days about this, but Im actually interested about AWD and not after I saw some NAFTA sales figures a few weeks ago.

Edit: And no Taco, I am currently working on an AWD project and thats why I saw the sales figures in question. As such, I am regularly involved in determining the comparability of measurements and test runs that we do with various vehicles and various tire conditions and their effects on the ability to apply tractive force to the driving surface.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 5/31/2013 12:39p).]

I appreciate all the comments.

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Their summary of small SUVs is below:

http://www.iihs.org/RATINGS/summary.aspx?class=58

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Thanks for the link.

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The 2013 Forester was rated by the IIHS as a "Top Safety Pick +" which is slightly better than the CR-V. Probably because the Forester was rated "Good" on the the "small overlap front test."

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It is the '14 Forester that gets a + rating. the '13 has the same ratings as the CR-V.

We were buying in the same class 18 months ago, for MIL, and found the CR-V's cabin noticeably quieter than the Forester's. Haven't been in a '14 Forester to know how it compares. We brought an AWD CR-V because we believe that AWD safety benefits are worth it.


Personally, I think Subaru is way behind in styling in that class for the Forester. Which they aren't at all with other models.






[This message has been edited by yakman (edited 5/31/2013 3:08p).]

I would get a Forrester or Outback all day long, but if I were in your situation, wifers would get a new Pilot and little miss would get an old Pilot.

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wifers would get a new Pilot and little miss would get an old Pilot.

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Exactly!

No way my kids get a brand new car unless they use their own money.

My daughter drives what was my wife's 2006 Pilot. Wife drives an Infiniti M35 now.

So why does the kid get a new car? Inquiring minds want to know.

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So why does the kid get a new car? Inquiring minds want to know.

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That's personally what *I* would've hoped would be determined by a Rule #1.

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It did cost me my first wrx when I got REALLY loose and overcorrected then Back forth back forth boom tree. Totaled car and only bruised my knee a little.

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That had nothing to do with the car.

I was fortunate enough to get one new. My older brother got a series of used cars that just kept breaking down and leaving him in a tough position, so my dad bit the bullet and bought a new, stripped down economy car (Ford Escort) and told me it had to last until I got out of college and was responsible for maintaining it. It actually worked out cheaper than my brother’s experience. I got 7.5 years out of it, and only had 1 major issue in the intake tube cracking prematurely…which I fixed with an entire roll of electrical tape and drove it for 6 months until I could buy a new tube.