I'm curious what people here think of this. From what little I've read, I find a couple of things suspect:

1. That this multi-billion dollar project won't cost taxpayers anything.
2. That the current convention center can't compete with others around the country due to bring outdated.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/financing-plan-endorsed-for-new-dallas-convention-center/2758204/

Huge, huge, waste of money, and more importantly a waste of land. The existing conv center is a huge waste of money and land that could be put to better use. Convention centers don't pay for themselves. Any tourism or visitor $$ spent here is tiny compared to the tax base with smarter development of the land into neighborhoods or commercial development. However, we are Dallas so it will happen

1)won't cost Dallas taxpayers? So does that mean I don't have to pay increased hotel taxes if I have a staycation or live in Dallas and have an event at a local hotel?

2) the talk about increasing walkability of the area. Unless they are changing the weather or taking about expanding the tunnel system there is no such thing as a walkable downtown in Texas. There can be walkable neighborhoods and entertainment/dining/drinking areas that are walkable, but a walkable downtown isn't a thing in Texas for good reason.

Totally agree on number one.

But I don't follow your second point. Why can neighborhoods be walkable but not downtowns?

Scale.

Lower Greenville, deep ellum, West end, arts district, Bishop arts district, uptown are what I mean by walkable neighborhoods.

Going to something the convention center and walking over to get lunch at the west end isn't something people would want to do 9 months out of the year due to weather.

Not to mention having to walk by the Greyhound station to get there. Any plan to make the western portion of downtown more walkable and integrated needs to include a relocation of Greyhound and, ideally, DART's West Transfer bus station. Not to completely derail the discussion, but I'm interested to see how DART's D2 subway changes things on that side of town and whether the pedestrian tunnel system will expand in conjunction with it.

So to make the area more walkable, you would remove bus stations? Interesting. Seems counterintuitive on its surface.

More stops increases walkability but above ground transfer stations inhibit walkability due to congestion and increased vagrancy.

Basically you want the stops to be a way to get to destinations, but not the destination.

double aught said:

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So to make the area more walkable, you would remove bus stations? Interesting. Seems counterintuitive on its surface.

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Yes. If you have seen the crowd that hangs out by the Greyhound station you would agree.

So, the leading plan is to remove the existing convention center and then rebuild it bridging the I30 canyon so it would sit across IH30 and anchor in downtown and on Lamar. Looks like that would, in effect, free up all of the land where the existing center sits.

In addition, the HSR terminal for DAL-HOU was planned to be right there on Lamar as well so I'm wondering if they are trying to connect the Lamar side of the convention center into the planned HSR terminal. The latter obviously might not happen but you know they are thinking about that.

Seems like a huge waste of money and resources though. That convention center is a blight, frankly. I have little faith a new one would be much better. Sounds like we are going to find out though.

Just don't ever stay downtown and you will never have to pay for it. Lol.

My office is on that side of downtown and I have co-workers who refuse to go to lunch in the West End or at any of the restaurants near the Omni because of the people who wander between the Greyhound, West Transfer, and West End light rail stations. If you were to relocate Greyhound outside of the Central Business District, but still near a rail station, it could go a decent way to cleaning things up without creating a strongly negative impact on Greyhound riders.

I think convention centers as some sort of "driver of economic activity" is outdated, 70s era thinking that really doesn't stand up to scrutiny, especially in a city like Dallas. The city would be much better served developing that land with housing and commercial development that would bring people to the area on a permanent basis. Bridging 30 between downtown and the Cedars is a good idea, but doing it with a convention center seems like a bad way to do it. Any convention center is like a huge dead spot in the landscape of any city. I so wish the city could look at stuff like this in a new way instead of rubber stamping the same old bad idea

Stop thinking of this like a a new convention center. Once you realize it's just an opportunity to overpay contractors and receive kickbacks for those in charge of the city it makes complete sense.

It was just a matter of time after the Omni got built.

They'll decide it's in the wrong spot now and rebuild it too.

walton91 said:

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I think convention centers as some sort of "driver of economic activity" is outdated, 70s era thinking that really doesn't stand up to scrutiny, especially in a city like Dallas. The city would be much better served developing that land with housing and commercial development that would bring people to the area on a permanent basis. Bridging 30 between downtown and the Cedars is a good idea, but doing it with a convention center seems like a bad way to do it. Any convention center is like a huge dead spot in the landscape of any city. I so wish the city could look at stuff like this in a new way instead of rubber stamping the same old bad idea

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I agree. Between the convention center footprint and the FairPark footprint you have an enormous amount of square footage that is vastly underutilized most of the year. Remove the convention center and let it get developed and knock down FairPark and redo that whole area.

should have used that money and brought the new Rangers ballpark downtown instead...

SoCalAg97 said:

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should have used that money and brought the new Rangers ballpark downtown instead...

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Instead of the convention center right? because outside of that there is no way the ballpark goes to downtown. Its just way too expensive.

Government wasting money on a convention center while government is discouraging group gatherings.

Seems silly.

Will be interesting to see who's I30 development plan wins out.

Could've dropped something brilliant in the old Reunion Arena spot....though not sure there's enough space there for a baseball park.

Why do we need all that with COVID around?
Clay Jenkins

Oh wait... I'm sure he's all for it.

I'm all kinds of confused by this pic.

• Are they showing Gilley's north of I30?
• Why does the DMN have a new building development? They have laid off all kinds of people in the last few years.
• The railway development has no terminal. It's a bunch of high rises.
• The Intermodal development looks nothing like what an intermodal area would look like.

I was referencing Matthews' plans because they have everything in Downtown staying where it is including the convenience center so that it can just be a deck park on top of 30. Here is a link to the DMN article and you can make out the new terminal in between the two areas they are hoping to create; the high rises which would act as another Uptown and Southside which they hope turns into another McKinney Avenue setting.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2021/10/13/developers-plan-for-high-speed-rail-station-south-of-downtown-dallas/?outputType=amp

I was looking at the pic wrong. North is more the left side of pic. I was looking at it as top as due north. Makes much more sense now.

Dallas could just do like Arlington and outsource the whole convention center business to a private company.

Really not sure why Dallas needs a convention center at all. I lived downtown for 5 years, pre-covid, and in my completely unscientific observation the most frequent events were cheer competitions and volleyball tournaments. Dallas will never have the type of events or draw the numbers like Vegas, Chicago, etc. which is probably why we end up with porn shows and cheer events. So why not use the money and land in smarter ways?

walton91 said:

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Really not sure why Dallas needs a convention center at all. I lived downtown for 5 years, pre-covid, and in my completely unscientific observation the most frequent events were cheer competitions and volleyball tournaments. Dallas will never have the type of events or draw the numbers like Vegas, Chicago, etc. which is probably why we end up with porn shows and cheer events. So why not use the money, and land in smarter ways

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The only thing I ever attempted to attend there was the car show and gave up on it because it was a nightmare trying to figure out parking. And they have gun shows which probably won't be around too much longer on a scale that requires a footprint that large.

walton91 said:

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Really not sure why Dallas needs a convention center at all. I lived downtown for 5 years, pre-covid, and in my completely unscientific observation the most frequent events were cheer competitions and volleyball tournaments. Dallas will never have the type of events or draw the numbers like Vegas, Chicago, etc. which is probably why we end up with porn shows and cheer events. So why not use the money and land in smarter ways?

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I have only attended the Dallas Safari Club show down there but I completely agree. We don't need a convention center, especially in that part of downtown.

But you need one so that the convention center hotel has a purpose.

walton91 said:

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Really not sure why Dallas needs a convention center at all. I lived downtown for 5 years, pre-covid, and in my completely unscientific observation the most frequent events were cheer competitions and volleyball tournaments. Dallas will never have the type of events or draw the numbers like Vegas, Chicago, etc. which is probably why we end up with porn shows and cheer events. So why not use the money and land in smarter ways?

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Boy....that a great way to look at things. I want to sign up under your leadership.

Good thing Frisco is planning "Oxbow at Frisco" with a 350,000sf convention center and mixed use property near the PGA HQ up there.

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/frisco/city-county/2021/10/13/the-oxbow-at-frisco-pitched-to-city-leaders-would-coincide-with-parvin-creek-greenspace-booming-northern-region/

Trains, newspapers, and convention centers. Cutting-edge growth areas to anchor a downtown in the 21st century.

TriAg2010 said:

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Trains, newspapers, and convention centers. Cutting-edge growth areas to anchor a downtown in the 21st century.

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No joke - wife and I went last weekend to Downtown Houston for as part of our anniversary. Stayed at the Westin across from Minute Maid Park. We ate and drank at some great places near there in walking distance. Every time we ventured out, she kept saying "why isn't Downtown Dallas like this? It's not nearly as lively or hopping!"