Not sure who else is closing in on a decision here. I'm starting to put some pen and pencil together to figure out what sort of cost things are going to be.

I was absolutely floored to see what the major private schools are asking now per year, and at some point looking into HPISD makes sense right? Even at the absurd cost of the houses. Not every house there is 2MM. There still exist some small ones that aren't out of control expensive and prices are down at all levels right now.

Right now it looks like for 2011-2012 the SPC schools are wanting about $19,000/kid. And that's not tax deductible.

If I have two kids that's going to work out to probably 3/4 of a million dollars over 13 years?!?

At some point you have to seriously consider HP even at the inflated prices a value right?

Where am I coming out wrong here?

HPISD
-Taxes high (but deductible)
-Mortgage very high (interest deductible)
-Schools very good

Private
-Taxes lower (can live anywhere)
-Mort. theoretically lower
-Schools excellent


There has to be an equation that says for every tuition dollar = HP dollar. I just don't know quite what that is and how I'd factor it in.

After doing the research I just can't really find an ISD I trust to last in the current tax and budget environment that exists anywhere in the metroplex area.

RISD is doing just fine and your kid has better shot to get into state schools b/c of the stupid 10% rule.

As someone who grew in Dallas and moved back, HPISD and the top-teir private schools are over-rated and offer nothing really(other than homogeneous skin color) that you can't get out of a good AP program at just about any RISD school.

As to cost benefit, if you can get a 350k-400k house and be happy, then it's a no brainier.

But if you need more than 1700sqft, then numbers don't line up as well.

before I get slammed, skin color joke was an insult...

[This message has been edited by Deats (edited 1/20/2011 2:20p).]

I don't need a big house. I'm on the Mstreets now and actually have grown to like the small house. Less to deal with, less to clean, and the lack of storage is a bonus to me.

And I sort of think it helps the family stay closer.

RISD is seemingly solid, and may be top to bottom the best ISD in the metro area but the housing is so spotty. Lots of areas are just rotting and the demographics age wise skews so much older there.

I can point you to some area where housing is affordable and still value increasing.

Also, many of the schools in LH are actually starting to see a spike in enrollment in the elementary schools from the demographics turning over.

If you like the M streets, the L streets would be right up you alley.

If you want to stay within a reasonable commute to DT or what the city center offers, RISD is the best bet. All of the schools are solid from top to bottom, but there are probably some you might want to avoid. The Bowie or Brentfield --> Parkhill--> Pearce HS up-line is a great district to be in and for $300-400k you can get a good house, much bigger than 1700 sf. Of course they were mostly all built in the late 70s to early 80s and don't have the M-Street charm.

You can't beat the location of HP/UP however and if the choice was between something like a Lakewood house and private schools for 2 kids or the HP/UP property costs, I would go with HP. If that's too big of a pill to swallow, then Richardson is a safe bet. There are plenty of very nice neighborhoods and I think it will only grow stronger as people move closer to the main business districts due to rising fuel costs.

If the commute or location isn't a big factor then there's the far north suburbs like Allen or Coppell that have strong schools or Rockwall to the east.

And Deats is right about Lake Highlands. LH, White Rock, and Moss Haven Elementary schools tend to cycle in terms of popularity, though they are all great. Right now it's Lake Highlands as we get calls weekly from people wanting to buy in LH district...so if anyone has a house in LH elementary they want to sell let me know, I can probably find you a buyer in about 30 minutes.

We chose the "Bowie -> Parkhill -> Pearce" area about 2-1/2 years ago and have been very, very pleased. We're only on the Bowie phase at the moment, but the experience has been great.

We're in Highlands North (North side of Campbell just east of Meandering Way) and the values are running just over $100/sf for most homes.

Hubby & I graduated from Pearce HS in RISD. Still a very good school from what I hear. We have lived in Coppell since 1983 & at that time there were about 5,000 people here. Since then people were flocking from North Dallas to Coppell because of the schools. We are now at about 38,000 people. My son grad from Coppell HS & my daughter is about to graduate fron New Tech High in Coppell. Coppell is making lots of changes to the education environment. It might be worth your time to check it out. We have pretty much maxed out on population because we are completely surrounded by towns. There are a few new houses going up but not many. In my neighborhood you can buy a 12 year old house, 3000 sf, 3 car garage w/a pool in the 300-400k range. The schools out here are extremely competitive & there is a good chance that the 10% rule might be gone by the time your kids graduate.

[This message has been edited by Texas Ag Mom (edited 1/20/2011 7:30p).]

I have a cousin that moved into Highland Park so her kids (17 and 13) could go to HPISD. They both hated it and ended up going to private school (Jesuit and Ursaline). My cousin said she wished they would have just moved to the Pearce H.S. or Allen H.S. areas. As expected HPISD is very much about who has the most money, parents bringing lawyers to parent/teacher conferences, etc.

Personally I would pick the Bowie and Pearce area as well, but my wife teaches at White Rock Elementary which feeds into Lake Highlands HS, so that is where my kids will go.

[This message has been edited by slschultz02 (edited 1/20/2011 6:17p).]

I went to elementary school at Bowie and HS at Highland Park. I would have much rather stuck with the RISD school district.

I have gone 'round and 'round about this with my wife. We contemplate moving to the Park Cities every few years.

We live in Dallas near Jesuit if you know where that is. We send our kids to a private school (not affiliated with Jesuit although I think it is a great school). They are in 7th grade and were asked to take the SAT this weekend. They have also been approached by a program sponsored by Duke University to enter into summer camps preparing for college studies and the SAT. Last summer they participated in session where they stayed at Austin College for a week doing different leadership exercises etc. These are some of the more recent things that have solidified our decision for private schools.

Private school > HP schools IMO.

I went to private school my whole life until high school. My high school was regarded as a pretty good school and I made strait a's in all ap classes while sleeping through every class for four years. Believe me, send your kids to private school. Texas public schools are a complete joke.

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We live in Dallas near Jesuit if you know where that is. We send our kids to a private school (not affiliated with Jesuit although I think it is a great school). They are in 7th grade and were asked to take the SAT this weekend. They have also been approached by a program sponsored by Duke University to enter into summer camps preparing for college studies and the SAT. Last summer they participated in session where they stayed at Austin College for a week doing different leadership exercises etc. These are some of the more recent things that have solidified our decision for private schools.

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I did most of that going to public school.

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I went to private school my whole life until high school. My high school was regarded as a pretty good school and I made strait a's in all ap classes while sleeping through every class for four years. Believe me, send your kids to private school. Texas public schools are a complete joke

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Wow... what a winner you are.... so well adjusted...

There are pros/cons for both sides. Alot depends on your children and how they fit in at either choice. Some do well in classes of 1000+ per grade, where as others would get lost in that situation. Either side claiming superiority over the other is misguided. I know some families that have one child in private, one in public, and both do extremely well due to the students interests and the parents involvement.

It comes down to doing what you feel is best for your own children (and that can be either or even sometimes both options).

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They are in 7th grade and were asked to take the SAT this weekend. They have also been approached by a program sponsored by Duke University to enter into summer camps preparing for college studies and the SAT.

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This is pretty standard practice for any kid in 7th grade. Duke uses it as a major marketing machine. What's amazing is that more schools haven't really adopted a similar program. It has done a ton for their image.

If you are in the M-Streets you should look into Woodrow's International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme. http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kera/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1691749/North.Texas/New.Program.For.Woodrow.Wilson.Freshmen

I live in the White Rock area of Lake Highlands, great for proximity to anything, and it is in the Richardson School district. The neighborhood is very close and active (we have a prePTA. had no idea these existed) The homes are not nearly as expensive, the schools are competitive but not pompous and still diversified. Home values are climbing and you can still afford private school is you end up going that way.

We did look in the White Rock Elem area and some of those surrounding areas briefly, and found most of the houses to be either ugly as hell or in need of a complete gutting.

And lots of the ones that are updated are done either in a real cheap style, or one that doesn't really fit the house. If that becomes appealing a complete gut out of what my wife calls "Grandma's house" would be one option.

The question about moving over there is whether you can expect to get back any renovation expenses in the house if a move is forced. And at this point I'm just not sure about that.

The Lake Highlands lifestyle does appeal to me though much more than HP. I really don't see myself out of the loop, but I do hear a lot of good things about the NW corner of RISD. Some people I really respect love it there.

i think private schools are best the younger your children are. i went to pre-k, k, and half of first grade at a catholic school. when i transferred to public i was reading at a 3rd grade level and teaching myself to write cursive while the other kids were still learning to read.

so i was always ahead in reading and once i got to fourth grade i stayed with my class in reading, which is something that a child can develop on his own and honestly the parent is more instrumental than the teacher in this area.

all that being said, i think the parents play a bigger role than the school the student attends. you can always teach your child ahead of their school curricula.

Lot's of grandma's houses turning over in WRE/LHE that need complete gutting and lots that were flipped by realtors.

Culdeus, if you go the gut rote my mom is a GC that does a lot of that.

We are headed to MHE as soon as we list and sell.

There are two typical points of view on the subject:

Private schools are a scam

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As someone who grew in Dallas and moved back, HPISD and the top-teir private schools are over-rated and offer nothing really(other than homogeneous skin color) that you can't get out of a good AP program at just about any RISD school.

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Exhibit A on why not to send your kids to private school...so they don't end up arrogant, socially dysfunctional jerks like our buddy here.

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or...

Private schools are better because public schools suck!

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I went to private school my whole life until high school. My high school was regarded as a pretty good school and I made strait a's in all ap classes while sleeping through every class for four years. Believe me, send your kids to private school. Texas public schools are a complete joke.

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As is typically the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

If you are looking for an environment that demands academic excellence in a classical sense, select private schools in Dallas can provide things at a level that 99% of public schools can't.

**** AeroAg puts on flame suit & wonders why he is stepping on this landmine ****

Personally, I think there are only 3 schools in town that can pull this off.
1) St. Marks
2) Hockaday
3) Cistercian

That's not to say that the other big name private schools in town are slouches. Call it elitist, call it pompous, call it what you like, but the academic opportunities offered to students that go to these schools would be difficult to match through a public school AP curriculum.

*** Flame suit off ***

However, few parents want to drive their children that hard. They don't want their children doing hours upon hours of homework a night. They don't want their kid's grades posted on the wall for everyone to see.

For the typical HS education, the actual decision between public & private schools comes down to class sizes, demographics, atmosphere, geographic location and religious affiliation. Academics from my vantage point become a wash.

To the OPs original question, the $15K to $25K you spend a year on private education in Dallas can be beneficial if you want to push your child to go into that very narrow, highly driven category. However, if you strictly looking for an "AP level" of education (which is very good BTW), the price of those 3 schools can be rather steep.

[This message has been edited by AeroAg2003 (edited 1/21/2011 1:03p).]

I'm not arrogant. That was a bad post. Private school academics will challenge your kids more. With that being said, I chose to leave private school because I knew I would have way more fun at public school. I did and I am really glad I left private school. However, I think it is a good idea to send your kids to private school at least through elementary school so they have stronger reading, writing, and math skills.

hth

Greenhill is right in the running there, and is mixed-gender. The thought of a single-gender school seems a little strange these days.

Cister. seems out there on a level the others can't really reach. It draws also nationwide.

Kids went to HP - second to none. always ranked 1 or 2 in the USA. Go there !

dp I went to Austin High.

[This message has been edited by BigJim49 AustinNowDallas (edited 1/21/2011 2:26p).]

if you're happy in a richardson or lake highlands, then live there and use the public schools.

if you desire preston hollow, north dallas, park cities, kessler park, etc., then the economic decision is simply a function of how many kids you have, imo.

private school at 1 kid. either at 2 kids and park cities at 3+ kids.

also factor in that at a private school you'll spend even more than the $15-25k in tuition to fund activities and through other voluntary contributions. hp/up schools are the same way because 70% of the property tax $s get robin hooded away and its residents still demand top quality s--t.

I think the decision is more of an art than a science. different kids/ different needs. but just looking at the #s, I think the 3+ kid rule is a pretty good indicator of when you must seriously question paying private school tuition.

[This message has been edited by carter4133 (edited 1/21/2011 5:37p).]

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I went to private school my whole life until high school. My high school was regarded as a pretty good school and I made strait a's in all ap classes while sleeping through every class for four years. Believe me, send your kids to private school. Texas public schools are a complete joke.

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Spelling mistake is money.

[This message has been edited by slschultz02 (edited 1/21/2011 8:02p).]

public or private, it really comes down to parenting.

Kids went to HP schools. We moved for schools and real estate return on investment vs. money for private schools. Many folks in UP did the same thing and comments about money money are just ignorant. It's a lot more Mayberry. Are there rich people? Sure. Are there rich people everywhere you are looking? Sure. It is still all about your family and not how someone else lives. Schools are good. City services are great and make it hard to move after school is finished. Call 911 and they are at your house in a minute and a half. See how that works in Dallas. It is just a good place to live and you can find plenty of nice homes under a million.

Another vote for Coppell. The entire school district has an exemplary rating and you can find a 3000 sq ft with a pool for ~$400K

As far as I can tell, only a couple of posters so far have actually experienced HPISD. I have three children in HPISD. The oldest is a junior in high school and we have been in HPISD since day one. Oldest is TAG, AP...the course work is extremely challenging...so much more than i ever did at A&M. Second child is not TAG and she is appropriately challenged and will be extremely well prepared for anything a university will throw at her.

All of my children are very involved in athletics. The coaching and level of support is second to none. The experiences that my kids participate in yearly are supremely magnificent.

Please don't fall for the knee jerk quick revolt against the people that live here. I have made wonderful friends and for the most part these are the most friendly, genuine people that you can come across. Are there jack hole's here? Sure, but there are just as many in Coppell, Southlake or Richardson. Also, the previous poster that mentioned city services is spot on.

Here is the kicker. I was in your position 17 years ago. It was a tough squeeze financially when we bought in. Moved once within the Park Cities early on and we now have been in the same house for 15 years. DCAD appraised it last year at 3 times what i paid for it. Im pretty sure i could sell it at a premium to that valuation. Try that in some of the other areas around town. I certainly got lucky. However, very few homeowners have done poorly in PC real estate.

We have been so blessed in our experience here. I am confident that you will have the same experience. I unequivocally recommend that you do it if you can make it work.

Bishop Dunne Catholic School!