Santa's Wonderland

8,197 Views | 34 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Bob Yancy
EBrazosAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Was anyone else surprised that the CoCS has given $450,000 to Santa's Wonderland over past 3 yr? The seem to be attracting business pretty well and selling lots of expensive tickets….
College Station looking to expand Christmas beyond Santa's Wonderland https://www.kbtx.com/2023/09/27/college-station-looking-expand-christmas-beyond-santas-wonderland/
agnerd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Don't think hotel dollars should be spent OUTSIDE of the city limits for a place that doesn't pay city property taxes. Reduce the hotel tax and tell hotels to increase their prices accordingly and negotiate their own advertisement deals with Santa's Wonderland.
maroon barchetta
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doesn't seem very fiscally conservative.
trouble
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Nothing about the CoCS spending money surprises me.
Hornbeck
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trouble said:

Nothing about the CoCS spending money surprises me.


The thirst for Other People's Money (OPM) continues unabated….
AgProgrammer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Santa's Wonderland is doing more than fine. The gigantic lines last year even on their off-peak nights was a pretty clear indicator. It's not like they are going to pick up and move somewhere else without the subsidies from the city.

If a family is coming from out of town and wants to find a hotel, they know how to find them. $150,000 or even $75,000 for a few thousand room pickups doesn't come out in the city's favor. Just cut the subsidy and spend it on activities inside of the city.
Buford T. Justice
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Make it a mountain bike park in the off-season.
"Gimme a diablo sandwhich and a dr. pepper...to go"
whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://www.kbtx.com/2023/09/27/college-station-looking-expand-christmas-beyond-santas-wonderland/


Let me get theirs straight
1. Now the city subsidies the website - (every single hotel In college station had better be on there or a lawsuit is going to happen) and now wants the hotels to pay for the pleasure. (Too avoid the lawsuit) as there are only 6 hotels on the website and this xtra cost raises the prices of rooms and also the tax incrementally
2. The city of college station are saying that people are too stupid to look up and see where to stay - make it easier for people- geez
3 if average hotel night is $200 (generous in off season) and tax is 7.5% you need 5000 room nights to make up the given away tax of $75000 - 100 bookings a night on average.
4 what a great deal for Santa winter wonderland because nobody would go if the city didn't give them money.
5. Government has no right in private business

This is not a good use of money

The hotel should have the Santa winter wonderland package to stay there like a valentine package or honeymoon or game day package

Edit
This was last years agreement - $50k for a college station sign on the ice rink and the other 100k for general tourism to reach people outside 75 miles of college station. Last year was the last year until this year?
https://wtaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/CScoun082522SantasWonderlandContract.pdf

Edit
What the measurable metrics the city used to see if this was a worthwhile agreement? Why are other attractions not sponsored?
maroon barchetta
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Councilman??
woodiewood1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I suspect a very small percentage of the people coming into town to go the venue would search and select a hotel from their website when there is only a few hotels listed. Most people would either go to expedia, Booking.com, AARP, etc, to find a hotel.

As mentioned above, any taxes collected by the City of College Station should be directed towards events and businesses that are located in the city.

Is any of the hotel tax money directed towards other private events or businesses?

What a waste of tax money.

OPM.
Hornbeck
How long do you want to ignore this user?
maroon barchetta said:

Councilman??

My guess is he doesn't chime in on this one….
RafterAg223
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Exhibit zz on how government at all levels doesn't have a clue how to manage and properly deploy OUR tax dollars. Trust in government has all but completely eroded because of this and the level of hubris that goes on display when they are questioned is ridiculous. This infuriates me. How dare you serfs question us on how we shell out cash to entities that don't need it, purchase functionally obsolete property for more than it's worth, enter costly litigation with massive real estate developers, and start building sports facilities without performing all necessary due diligence?
Captn_Ag05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hornbeck said:

maroon barchetta said:

Councilman??

My guess is he doesn't chime in on this one….
Isn't it on a council agenda for tonight? If so, he shouldn't be weighing in on here for a publicly posted agenda item.
Bunk Moreland
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I could see something similar being a decent idea (tying hotel direct links right on to the SW website) if it involved deals on tickets and/or hotel stays by using a link/promo code or a stay and play bundle price to get 2 nights out of the customers, etc.

The city, hotels & SW could then track the usage of that and determine a % benefit to SW if it actually led to an increase in hotel stays, that way everyone is only earning off the direct benefit.

As it is I'm confused as to why they tried the first plan and I'm not understanding this new idea very much at all. However, it also reads as if the hotels are now complaining to the city and wanting the city to keep paying SW so they can be crosslinked on their site no?

All of this feels very half baked.
HWY6_RunsBothWays
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

If you don't like it....Four (4) City of College Station Council positions will be on the ballot in November 2024. Filing will open in July 2024.
That is a perfect quote for your user name. Just perfect.
BluHorseShu
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EBrazosAg said:

Was anyone else surprised that the CoCS has given $450,000 to Santa's Wonderland over past 3 yr? The seem to be attracting business pretty well and selling lots of expensive tickets….
College Station looking to expand Christmas beyond Santa's Wonderland https://www.kbtx.com/2023/09/27/college-station-looking-expand-christmas-beyond-santas-wonderland/
If someone had the means, they should open a place similar to SWL a la 2005 era where you just paid by the car load to drive the family through the lights and then maybe had some not expensive hot chocolate.

We would go to SWL now with their current ticket prices...but we gave our kids the options and they decided they'd rather have us help pay for their college.

whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BluHorseShu said:

EBrazosAg said:

Was anyone else surprised that the CoCS has given $450,000 to Santa's Wonderland over past 3 yr? The seem to be attracting business pretty well and selling lots of expensive tickets….
College Station looking to expand Christmas beyond Santa's Wonderland https://www.kbtx.com/2023/09/27/college-station-looking-expand-christmas-beyond-santas-wonderland/
If someone had the means, they should open a place similar to SWL a la 2005 era where you just paid by the car load to drive the family through the lights and then maybe had some not expensive hot chocolate.

We would go to SWL now with their current ticket prices...but we gave our kids the options and they decided they'd rather have us help pay for their college.


Here is one that I saw on wellborn road.
https://www.bvtreefarm.com/catfprices
Weird how it has a link to college station website at the bottom of it. I wonder how much they got paid by the city.
https://visit.cstx.gov/christmas/

Edit
I don't see this establishment on the college station website. Weird if they are an attraction and people are looking for attractions.
MeKnowNot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hornbeck said:

maroon barchetta said:

Councilman??

My guess is he doesn't chime in on this one….
....not on my watch...

Besides, he's got his eye on representing us in Austin.

Reminds me of a guy we had on Council that wanted to make CS a mini-Austin. That Councilman was fixated on building a food truck park that everyone in College Station would flock to on the weekends as a food and entertainment venue.

Another example of CS wasting of taxpayer money on pet projects.

https://blog.cstx.gov/2015/10/12/podcast-why-food-truck-parks-make-sense-in-our-community/

Edit to add: Thank you Jay Socol for making podcasts that transform news of today into the entertainment of tomorrow!
Doug Funny
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wonder how many tickets or other favors the city receives from Santa's Wonderland?
UmustBKidding
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Not as many benefits as they got from the red light camera guys.
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sorry I just saw this thread. Still not a Texags pro.

Several hoteliers reached out to me regarding the proposed change to this contract. Apparently direct hotel bookings through this digital market effort was working well for them.

Santa's Wonderland is just about the biggest attraction in town outside of game days. It brings approximately 400,000 attendees of which 300,000 are from out of town. 35,000 cars park at Post Oak Mall to facilitate shuttle service to and from the amusement.

This attraction fills the equivalent of 3 sold out Kyle Fields over the course of the holidays.

I voted for the reduced contract amount but expressed my concerns that we were perhaps fixing something that wasn't broken.

I also expressed my issues with tax dollars, even HOT tax dollars, going to support a private business. It's a tough call. What I'm finding is my conservative philosophy doesn't always fit neatly into municipal policy.

By facilitating hotel bookings and overnight stays, the positive economic benefit locally is enormous.

Of course, in a perfect world there would be no subsidy for the private sector. Not for tourism, not for economic development and business recruitment, not for anything.

However, when you factor in the fact that all cities now compete these days on such issues, the calculus becomes do I rigidly adhere to conservative principles, or do I cast a vote for small compromises to ensure we are competitive to the positive benefit of all of us?

Weighing all those factors, I felt a vote yes at the reduced rate was the right thing to do. I'm sorry if that vote disappoints. I can only assure you I thought long and hard on it.

Respectfully,
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
maroon barchetta
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thanks for the reply.
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I wasn't ignoring y'all I just didn't see this thread. Yes I'm considering a bid for state rep but my duty to you and all College Station residents comes first. I get a complete agenda in hard copy for every meeting, research hard and cast the best vote I can. I've posted my response on the Santa's Wonderland item above, now that it is no longer an active agenda item.

Respectfully
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Of course. Feel free to message me if I'm asked a question on a new topic so I don't miss it. If I don't respond to legitimate questions it's because a) I didn't see it or b) it's an active agenda item.

Thanks!
EBrazosAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Not a CoCS resident…. But what part of the success of SW makes any consideration of support reasonable? That place prints $$$ for the owners and all that it supports (Xmas fund for many law enforcement- good for them). Why would you put dollars toward hotel bookings that were likely to happen without it ? That's the government solution that I think the majority hers are doubtful about.
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think that's a 100% fair position. But it's also true that cities do support private sector attractions that allow them to dovetail with their tourism goals. SW does that for CS. Thus the compromise. It's a 1 year agreement, and it's now half of what it was. We'll see if the positive local economic impact justifies the marketing agreement and impacts other initiatives the city is doing around Christmas this year. I'm hopeful it will.
whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bob Yancy said:

I think that's a 100% fair position. But it's also true that cities do support private sector attractions that allow them to dovetail with their tourism goals. SW does that for CS. Thus the compromise. It's a 1 year agreement, and it's now half of what it was. We'll see if the positive local economic impact justifies the marketing agreement and impacts other initiatives the city is doing around Christmas this year. I'm hopeful it will.
What are the measurable metrics the city used to see if this was a worthwhile agreement? Please tell me hope is not a measurement.
EBrazosAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hope is never a strategy……
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
No sir I believe in analyzing data. Just one hotelier in CS reports this agreement generated the following in new hotel bookings:

2022 Production
386 Room Nights
2021 Production
739 Room Nights
2020 Production
517 Room Nights

Of course, this begs the question, how much of that is truly new business versus what would've occurred anyway. I asked that question and this was the response:

In 2022 & 2021 it represented about 12-13% of Transient Room Revenue.
In 2020 it represented about 22% of Transient Room Revenue.

So, if I extrapolate those numbers across all participating hotels, the number is huge. The agreement more than pays for itself, and that's before ancillary benefits from new economic activity at CS's new Christmas activities and events.

We'll see how the Christmas season goes. For me, we need family friendly entertainment in a big way. Safe, fun, family entertainment.
EBrazosAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I've always found one can do analysis to convince one's self of the value of anything. The best analysis is usually the first or second one on the back of a napkin. That one keeps you from buying into the "more advanced " dupe of somebody likely to profit way more than you. I'm not an agent or an expert. But I have been doing business and RE in BCS for nearly 30 yr.
whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bob Yancy said:

No sir I believe in analyzing data. Just one hotelier in CS reports this agreement generated the following in new hotel bookings:

2022 Production
386 Room Nights
2021 Production
739 Room Nights
2020 Production
517 Room Nights

Of course, this begs the question, how much of that is truly new business versus what would've occurred anyway. I asked that question and this was the response:

In 2022 & 2021 it represented about 12-13% of Transient Room Revenue.
In 2020 it represented about 22% of Transient Room Revenue.

So, if I extrapolate those numbers across all participating hotels, the number is huge. The agreement more than pays for itself, and that's before ancillary benefits from new economic activity at CS's new Christmas activities and events.

We'll see how the Christmas season goes. For me, we need family friendly entertainment in a big way. Safe, fun, family entertainment.

Was there a measurement before this agreement? If not how do you know it was the agreement to give credit to?
Edit - if no measurement before now you know how much is attributed to Santa wonderland but people could also be in town for a basketball game as well on the second night. Which also looking at the numbers how many were one night or two or more of the numbers above? In other words in 2022 of the 386 were 100% one night or were they two nights? And caught another attraction.

Just trying to have a discussion.
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Of course. Good question. I asked it too. The response was that this digital marketing agreement was working and new bookings were pouring in as a result.
whoop1995
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bob Yancy said:

Of course. Good question. I asked it too. The response was that this digital marketing agreement was working and new bookings were pouring in as a result.
Hmmmmm - so now y'all established a measurable base which is good but can't really tell if it is growing the numbers that were already there. Can y'all break it down into how many nights were multiple aside from a single night? As those in my opinion would be valuable to see if they tacked on nights for the product. This way more marketing could be done to piggy back off other events in town the next day night and y'all would know where to place a third event to get up them to stay three nights in a row.

The one nighters were pretty much there for Santa wonderland. Cross marketing of other events to these people would be the way I would go in order to grow these people into two nights.

Edit - do you have data on how far these people travelled for how many nights as well?
Bob Yancy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Since it's a new agreement and just a one year term, and at half of what it was before, we'll have a chance to do a retrospective and see if it moves the needle.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.