anyone know if it is too late to seed in winter grass? if not, what kind works best around here (yes, I know I'll need to water since rainfall is unlikely)?

Now is actually a great time with the cooler daytime highs. Ryegrass is you best choice for a cool-season turfgrass.

what agresearch said

Great. Thank you both. You guys are a big help.

Now is really about perfect timing wise.

It really depends on what you are doing with your place....is this your yard or a place that animals forage on? I just planted 26 acres of ryegrass, crimson clover, and some other nitrogen fixing plants, along with some 10-20-10 fertilizer. These will help feed my Red Deer, Addax and Scimitar in early spring until perhaps late april/early May.

[This message has been edited by Yuccadoo (edited 10/19/2011 6:45p).]

So if you plant rye grass, does it completely die out when the weather warms back up in the spring and summer? We're looking for something to keep down the mud in the yard over the winter while we work on decking and paving to get out of the St. Augustine farming business.

The annual ryegrass will die out in summer.

It will need lots of water the first 3 weeks or so, maybe even twice a day.

It does really well in shade.

It will die next (late) spring when it gets too hot again.

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It does really well in shade.

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You just sold me on it. We need something for the somewhat shady backyard and it sounds like this would work until we can get the decking done next spring.

Go getcha a big sack of Rye seeds at the coop.

Rake them in.

The seeds need to be in contact with dirt, under a little, not just sitting on top.

I overseeded Bermuda with Rye for last winter to control erosion around the house and it worked well.

That ISUAgronomist fella could provide more info if he is lurking, he knows things...

This past spring I planted St Aug in my backyard. There are a few areas where it did not make it. I have no weeds at all in this yard. I dont want to mess up the St Aug if I planted rye - it may not but I just dont know. WOuld it be ok to do that? Or would weeds start to come in?

I overseeded rye last year, just put it in my spreader and rolled. No raking, no watering. Here it is in mid winter




Check with your HOA, I found out after the fact that Rye wasn't on the approved list, so I won't be doing it again this year. It (rye) is great for your warm weather lawn too. Seemed like my lawn did better this year, even with the drought, so the rye must be beneficial. Too bad I can't do it again.

SARATOGA,

He got a name change.

AgsResearch=ISUAgronomist ?

You change just for game week or what ? Don't want the hate ?

"Check with HOA" ? - You've got to be kidding me. Pretty sure I will do what I want on my own land - this isn't russia, wait, is this russia ?

#ReasonsToNotLiveInNeighborhoods

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I have no weeds at all in this yard. I dont want to mess up the St Aug if I planted rye - it may not but I just dont know. WOuld it be ok to do that? Or would weeds start to come in?

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Planting ryegrass will not cause weed problems unless you get a crappy seed source. It shouldn't mess up your St. Augustine as the ryegrass will start to die back as temps increase, which is when St. Augustine will start rapid growth.

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Check with your HOA, I found out after the fact that Rye wasn't on the approved list

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I'd tell them to get bent as ryegrass provides a nice green lawn in periods of warm-season grass dormancy. Heck, you would think some snobby HOA folks would demand everyone to overseed with ryegrass every fall.

Right! I think there was a little lawn envy going on though. Here is a pic that shows the difference between mine and my nieghbors

So they weren't willing to keep up with The Mad Greek's?

Evidently not

Whole neighborhood has to suffer now

AgResearch:

What is the pre-emergent that is recommended for St. Augstine? Also, I needed some weed control for slender thistle.

One of you experts helped me about six months ago with identification of the thistle.

Thanks in Advance

Are thinking of slender aster? If so, and it's probably already germinated, your best bet is to start pulling. Postemergence control of slender aster in St. Augustine is difficult. You could try spot spraying with 2,4-D but I'm not sure how effective it is on slender aster and you don't really want to treat the entire yard as it can damage St. Augustine. Same thing with Roundup. You could try applying it with a sponge to the weed in 7-10 days it should be dead.


The best preemergence herbicide for St. Augustine (active ingredient) is atrazine. Works well for winter and summer annual broadleaf weeds. Read labels and you should find one with atrazine. I don't keep up with all the store brands since I have access to commerical agriculture products.

AgsResearch - since you are the resident expert - would you advise a winterizer or anything fertilizer wise on a Bermuda lawn ? It was seeded last summer, so just over a year old.

Or should I just overseed with Rye again for the winter ?

I am concerned about Rye possible taking nutrients from the soil that the Bermuda might need next spring. It is a new house so basically there is only 3 inches of topsoil that was brought in before to plant the grass on, and below that there is just select fill.

Winterizer fertilizer high in K (potassium) is beneficial for the dormant warm-season grasses (St. Aug, Bermuda, Zoysia).

As long as you are not bagging the ryegrass clippings nutrient removal wouldn't be much of a problem since they will cycle with the plant material breaking down again. Once the warm-season grass is fully dormant you could consider a traditional fertilizer to supply extra nitrogen to the ryegrass.

Thanks for the Info.

Atrazine was it. Thanks.

I will pull the weeds that I can.

I certainly appreciate your expertise.

Going to a retail place for advice can be iffy. You saved me a bunch of grief and travel.

I don't bag clippings.

What about the Potash mentioned here ?

http://www.producerscooperative.com/ProductsServices/LawnGarden/ProducersFertilizer

Seems like this is all potassium....

Good or not ?

What is the fertilizer ratio for winter? I went to Home Depot today and looked. I want to make sure I don't burn my yard.

This has been a super helpful post. Thanks for all the great information. We normally just talk to the guys at Lowes about stuff like this and we're not convinced they always know what they are talking about.

I planted rye grass *once* when I lived in houston, I had a beautiful green lawn on my corner lot, best looking lawn in the neighborhood and it looked so cool when the wind blew and it would change from green to silver in the sunlight.

Punka$$ HOA started sending me letters to mow it, stating it looked "un-sightly and made the neighborhood look trashy".

Typical HOA behavior

so I can spray atrazine over zoysia or St. Aug?

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so I can spray atrazine over zoysia or St. Aug?

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Yes, over both of them.

For those asking about fertilizer recommendations Randy Lemmon has a great summary for the entire season:

http://www.randylemmon.com/lawns/fertilize.html

Here is this time of year:

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October-November - apply winterizer formulas for winter hardiness. Ratios vary, but make sure they are "winter" or "fall" formulas designed for southern grasses.
(examples: 18-6-12, 8-12-16, 10-5-14) Will make lawns winter-hardy.

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Personally, I'd limit the amount of nitrogen in the blend you purchase as the plant doesn't need much (any) during the winter.

The numbers above = N-P-K