I am thinking of putting in a food plot on my place after the season closes, but I have absolutely no experience with this kind of thing. What would be an easy crop to start off with, how much should I plant, when should I plant it, how much will it cost, etc?


820 Acre Ranch (low fence) in SE Comanche County.
I plan on using an 80 Acre field that slopes downhill (I assume some crops need more water than others) with hardwoods on two sides and a creek at the bottom of the slope.

http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=34&topic_id=462340

If you talk to your local seed supplyer before you order, they can usually mix up something much less expensive and just as good or better.

has anyone ever tried Tecomates's LabLab? I'm sure it's more expensive than a local mix. We're in North Hidalgo County so I think it was probably formulated with that area (Coastal Plains)in mind.

Lablab has to be fenced and cultivated. You almost have to be a full time farmer to make it work right--not to mention water. Fencing is a must because you have to get it established before letting the deer on it.

Thanks. How do you fence out deer? You have to put a high fence around a food plot?

How much better is it to have a food plot vs. just protein feeders placed all over?

Yes--most of the lablab plots I have seen are deer fenced and built in such a way as the bottom half of the fence lifts up. There is a lot more to lablab than meets the eye unless you have got pockets full of money. You might want to contract Dean Williams at King Seeds in San Antonio. He is a good Ag (one of my roommates) back in the dark ages ('77). I am pretty sure they have a website, too.

Agstudent--Protein programs are the best way to go IMO. To do it right, it still costs $$$. Here in S. Texas, we have to build pens around the feeders because of the hogs, so if youve got those critters, then you need to factor that into your costs. Pens and feeders can get expensive, but they are a "one time" expense. Also, dont go "cheap" on the feeder--dont need a cadillac, but a mercury is better than a ford if you will--get a mid price, not the cheapy. IF you do get into a protein feeding program, remember that culling becomes a large part of your program--you dont want to be feeding the world when you are trying to raise big deer.

We use gravity feeders for the protein...much easier than dealing with batteries fr typical deer feeders. Anyone have an idea of how many protein feeders you should have? We have one in every 500 acre pasture we hunt (4), plus about 15 corn feeder. These are big protein feeders and the deer eat them up every year. Just wondering if we have enough protein feeders.

I'm about 50 miles South of you. I'm going to try divine little bur medic everywhere I have bermuda next fall. I just finished nuking mesquite and will be nuking weeds this spring and summer. I'm cursed with bermuda but need it to keep the sand from blowing away.

I did a little bit of research to find the right legume for our area and this one looks pretty good.

www.pogueagri.com/Devine.htm

quote:

---

Planting Date: Early dates with good moisture.
Prepared Seedbed: Sept 25 to Dec 25
Sod: Oct 10 to Dec 10

---

BTW, here's an excellent link, even if you thought you knew everything about forages.

forages.tamu.edu/

[This message has been edited by HECUBUS (edited 11/30/2005 4:49p).]

You should factor about 1 protein feeder per 25 deer on your place. You get more deer on the feeder than 25 & the pecking order factor becomes an issue. If you don't know how many deer are on your place...1 feeder per 300 to 400 acres is a decent estimate.

We havent had great luck with food plots, although we do have several large ones. Our problem is that we have so many deer, and we dont fence the plots, they eat whatever we plant before it can even grow. Literally, if it grows 1 inch out of the ground, they eat it. I guess we could fence it, but we havent.

We usually plant oats or peas. One pea I like is called Red Ripper.

quote:

---

Also, dont go "cheap" on the feeder--dont need a cadillac, but a mercury is better than a ford if you will--get a mid price, not the cheapy.

---

What are the reasons for this? I've always just made my own corn feeders, and I don't think it would be hard to make a gravity protein feeder. If I end up buying one, what are some mid price feeders?

Also, how big of a pen is needed? I don't have hogs, but I do have cattle.

If you have cows and bermuda, devine is the closest thing I could find to a true cover crop.

Our goals are not a food plot for deer but to reduce fertilizer and herbicide costs as well as reduce the negative effect of our bermuda on wildlife. We currently don't have cows on our place but will on some parts next summer.

My brother does the food plots, makes them bigger every year but, sees the same thing R.R. sees.

For spring cow peas grow great usually and provide a good deal of protein. Deer love them too. They're not too expensive to palnt either. We do some plots with them in the spring and use the same plots for oats/ wheat in the fall.

quote:

---

How much better is it to have a food plot vs. just protein feeders placed all over?

---

Use both, deer need a place to congregate and mill around eating they they feel comfortable. Bucks arre a lot more receptive to protein feederes than does, luckily that's the point. We use gravity protein feeders on a few of our plots in the spring and summer particularly. We also use feed troughs for protein pellets and sometimes mix them 50/50 wiht pellets and corn. Either way the more protein you can pump into your deer the better off you are.

quote:

---

I don't have hogs, but I do have cattle.

---

That sucks! We have both and we fence all you plots with 3-4 strand barbed wire (keeps cows out but not hogs) The hogs don't cause us much problem though.


[This message has been edited by MasterAggie (edited 12/1/2005 3:39p).]

I've hesitated in the intererst of time to answer this question, but here goes a short version. The "10% Rule" is not bad when it comes to intensive food plots. If you are going to do it, it should be about 10% of your land area. Anything less becomes mearly a "kill zone" in the winter or buzzed off in the summer. For the most part, summer food plots are not nearly as good an investment as cool season food plots. If the place is well managed, the warm season should provide the forage you need. Cold weather is when things get tricky. A good winter food plot will provide high protein feed when the deer need it most - post breeding/rut. If you do it, do it right. Either A) keep it clean with herbicides during the off period and use a good no-till drill to plant, or B) Keep it clean (as needed) with tillage and plant. Fertilize according to a soil test for decent production. There are some outstanding mixes commercially available. Turner Seed has one I have been impressed with. If you don't want to use a pre-mix, choose as necessary between oats, russian beardless wheat, ryegrass, Austrian winter peas, yellow or white sweet clover, any of the newer medics (Armadillo for neutral to high pH and the Devine for acid soils), turnips, and vetch.

This just happens to be an area where I have given numerous field day talks in South Texas over the last 13 years, and I could write about it half the night ....

B1, I probably know you !!!????

Protein feeders--my hunters went the cheap route and will have to replace ALL of them within two years. Deer (raccoons) will tend to bump the spouts (probably when the feeders run out), so if the spouts are not sturdy, the metal will stress and off comes the entire spout. If you make your own, you can do a little more welding, etc and shore them up. At any rate, as in most things in life, cheap is not the way to go--if you buy a commercial feeder, make sure it is sturdy vs pretty.

B1, Uvalde ??

That would be me.

B-1 83 - I read that the Armadillo medic is not cold tolerant enough for the area in question. Do you disagree?

My family has a high fenced ranch in Kimble county. We have 12 (3000-4000 lb.) protein feeders on 2100 acres. That may seem like a lot, but with the amount of deer we have it it a necessity. We also supplement that with 5-10 acres food plots place throughout the ranch. We have about 10 of those at this point, but this number will grow over time. Having the combination of the two has worked wonderfully. We feed protein from February-September and the food plots provide extra food while the protein has been cut-off.

We predominately use oats and some other mixes. The problem we've had this year has been the lack of rain so the plots haven't done that well. The Tecomate seed is definitely the way to go if you can do it. I've hunted on that ranch twice and the deer are unbelievable. Only there have I seen (3) 170+ B&C deer in the same hunt.

As stated before, I wouldn't use the Lablab unless you have a lot of time and the $$ to build a fence around your food plots. It is a high maintenance plant that the deer can't eat off of until the plant has grown for a while. If the deer eat on it too early and bite off the plant at a certain point before it matures it stops growing.

B-1 83
Warm season food plots aren't as valuable where you are since the "crappy looking forage" there is actually extremely nutritious than the forage is in the more central part of Texas where the forage isn't nearly as protein/ vitamin rich. We're on about 2,000 acres in Brazos and dealing with about 500 head of cattle. We're producing 130+ class deer here in a basic dead zone. I certainly wish I could hunt the area you're in but don't have the resources. But I'd have to say that physiclogically speaking deer here and farther south need more protein in the warm(hot) season than in the (cool) season. During the rut high protein food is key since they are not eating "normally" but April through July bucks definitely need more protein than the colder months.



[This message has been edited by MasterAggie (edited 12/1/2005 9:55p).]

I can't really disagree with you Master, but the problem with so many warm season plots for deer arises early in the game. Unless the plots are large, the primary species used (cowpeas, lab lab, and other legumes) are often hammered just after emergence to a point that the growing points receive extreme damage. One solution is to high fence them out, but this is expensive. One trick that will work to a degree is to mix the legumes amongst species such as white milo or pearl millet. Deer will eat a little of the leaves on these species, but will do well on the "boots" and early seed heads.

As far as the adaptibility of 'Armadillo" medic, I had success with it on my ranch near Gatesville, but in a very cold winter (upper teens and low 20's) it will get scorched. Further north I might suggest Berseem, Yucchi, or even crimson clover. The berseem is actually the heaviest producer, but likes more rainfall and high pH soils. The other 2 are happiest at neutral to acid soils.

Thanks again B-1 83. Its good of you to frequent this forum and share your wisdom.

I believe we've already been in the mid twenties a couple of times at our place this fall and we're 80% deep sand so the devine will probably be very happy (as is every perennial weed known to man).

Keep in mind, the 'Devine' variety was found around Devine, TX (duh!). I'm not sure abut its cold hardiness up north. The 'Armadillo' variety was developed from a "weed" that kept invading Dr. Bill Occumpaugh's clover plots at Beeville. The funny story on it was that he sought to find a good reeseeder for high pH soils in Central and South Texas, and while he imported all sorts of clovers and medics from Australia, this "native" (none of these medics, or burr clovers are really natives) kept invading his plots and out performing the imports. He finally said "screw it", the answer was right under his nose.

I have seen the Armadillo story. From the "devine" link above, not that I have any evidence or experience that its true...

quote:

---

Results indicate that it (devine) will yield as much or more than other medics in the region from just south of San Antonio to north of Stephenville and west to San Angelo. In this I-35 corridor and western area no other medic will consistently produce as much dry matter as Devine™. Devine™ will persist from season to season due to it’s excellent seed production and a very high hard seed content. Devine™ has better winter hardiness than any other burr medic currently used in this area.

---

Maybe they are not using Armadillo? I don't know. I wish I could locate the article about Devine vs. Armadillo that convinced me that Devine was a better choice.

quote:

---

the primary species used (cowpeas, lab lab, and other legumes) are often hammered just after emergence to a point that the growing points receive extreme damage

---

Man you're right about that, that is a problem. The first year we planted cow peas they grew literally to about 3 1/2 feet tall before the deer started eating them. I've got pictures of the patches with a dozen bucks in there at a time and about all you can see is their heads. The next year they plowed them down so fast they never got over about 6-8 inches. We started doing a couple of small polts again and are having alright results with them.
By the way B-1 83 good suggestion on the mixing in of legumes! Thanks.


[This message has been edited by MasterAggie (edited 12/2/2005 12:27p).]

If they got that tall, you did well. Most of the plots with cowpeas I've work with only got 3-4 inches tall before being hammered.

I don't know why they didn't get on them sooner but it was the only time that happened. It may have been that there wasn't that much activity in that area for a month or so which seems to happen from time to time or some other oddity. But after that year it was game on every time we planted them there. I's post a picture for you but I don't know where to post it to get it on here.