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9mm Carbine Style Pistol/Rifle - Which one is best?

18,790 Views | 76 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by AggieT
ttha_aggie_09
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Gents,

I've read quite a bit over the years on here and never really wanted a 9mm carbine style "pistol" or rifle until I just got a dedicated 9mm can. Now I am trying to figure out which one is best for my application.

Use: range gun mostly but potentially SHTF/Self Defense
Optics: would like to throw a red dot on it (I think that rules out the Kel-Tec)
Suppressed: will run suppressed
Budget: ideally sub $1,000
Stock: ideally looking for a braced stock and would prefer something that folds. I'm not opposed to SBR something if needed.

I've looked at a lot of options and I'm just not sure which one to go with. I really like the idea of something using Glock Mags since I have a bunch already but not deal breaker.

Any thoughts on:

CZ Scorpion
Ruger
S&W
PSA AR-V
Kel-Tec

Any others I am missing?

I appreciate the help advance!
SanAntoneAg
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I shot a box through my 9mm Hi-Point carbine a couple weeks ago. As always, fun stuff.

She ugly. Paid $75 for her a few years back.
Gig 'em! '90
SoTxAg
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Not sure it fits all your criteria but a friend recently got a Henry Homesteader and he likes it a lot. Had a good grouping at 100 yards with the open sights.
ShouldastayedataTm
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I have a Ruger PCC and threw it into a TandemKross chasis that I really like, but have had issues with it reliability wise since. I have also had difficulty getting the vortex Crossfire red dot zero'd on it. But admittedly have not really worked at it like it obviously needs. It mainly just sits in the closet. Cannot in good conscious recommend it, but cannot say stay away either since I have not done my due diligence in running right.

I have a Draco Nak9 pistol with the same model red dot, shoots like a dream and while not a folding brace, it does collapse and makes the whole thing easily fit in a basic backpack. This would be my recommendation based on experience with the two options.

I am still deciding on suppressing either one, or if I should go a different direction on the Ruger PCC. Will be following this thread to see what kind of recommendations you get.
GSS
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I have been impressed by my S&W FPC, function has been flawless, came with 3 mags, the way they incorporated mag storage in the buttstock is nice.
Working on making a load that I can count on as being subsonic, as even 147gr factory loads are on the bubble, from a 16" barrel (about half bust the sound barrier).
NRA Life
TSRA Life
zooguy96
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The trigger on the Keltec suuckkks.

I really like the CZ Scorpion.
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
SharkinAg
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Cmmg banshee

Edit to add I didn't see the under 1k part until now. Only have experience with the banshee so I'm not much help here.
Caladan
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Among the 9mm firearms we own, we have the Beretta CX-4, S&W FPC, CZ Scorpion, Sig MPX PCC, and B&T GHM9. All of these except the MPX are sub-$1k, so I won't mention the Sig.

S&W FPC - cheapest of the three, can be had for around $540-$560. Can easily mount a red dot sight, but the pic rail is too far forward for a regular scope (there are however aftermarket rails for this). Ours has proven to be 100% reliable with around 7-8 different types of 9mm FMJ and HP's. Accuracy seems to be just fine, but tbh I haven't benched it at 100 yards yet. Trigger is good, folding mechanism seems to work well. Takedown may seem to be a bit complicated at first, but once you do it once or twice you will find that it is actually pretty easy to do. I do like the on-board storage of extra magazines. Please note that this is for storage, and not really designed to enable a quick tactical reload.

CZ Scorpion - nothing really great about it, but certainly nothing bad. Mags are cheap. Lots of aftermarket support. I like shooting it, but it gets the least amount of shooting time. I don't think I have shot it since last Summer. But it has functioned 100% over the years we have had it.

Beretta CX-4 - I really like this one a lot. Works a lot like a regular semi-auto handgun in that mags insert into the grip, and there is a bolt release lever on the left side, and still has the charging handle too. Charging handle and ejection direction can be easily switched. I really like the build quality, accuracy, ease of disassembly, and its 100% reliability over thousands of rounds (I've had this one the longest). There are several downsides however. One is that you can't slide something onto the ends of the pic rail. Fortunately it does have built-in iron sights though. Unfortunately those iron sights can get in the way of the rds you might want to mount. It also does not have a threaded barrel, which these days is a big miss. This rifle was my wife's favorite, until the B&T came along.

GHM9 - this one is a pistol that has been SBR'd. We love this thing. Exceptional build quality (made in Switzerland) and reliability, whether shooting suppressed or un. Easy to shoot, so much so that it is now my wife's favorite centerfire firearm. Trigger is pretty good, enough so that I have no plans on changing it. B&T also makes several lowers that use other types of magazines too. I think they make a Glock lower, and a Sig lower. BTW, the upper is the serialized portion, so you can order and change lowers at will. I purchased ours new last Fall for just under $1k, but at the moment it might be hard to find one for that. Downside is that B&T mags are more expensive than many others, and to add insult to injury they don't have metal feed lips. However, there is one company that makes aftermarket mags that do have metal lips, and they work just fine. Other downside is that the right side safety lever is poorly positioned and digs into your finger when it is in fire position. If you get a GHM9, be prepared to buy an aftermarket safety lever. They are cheap, and can be installed in about 60 seconds once you watch a couple of youtube vids.

All of the above have proven to be exceptionally reliable, so I would have no problems with assigning any of them to personal defense use. IMO the CX-4, Scorpion, and GHM9 are all built good enough to be "duty-rated". IOW I would have no hesitation using them for military or police use if I were actually in that situation. In fact, there are militaries and police units that use all three of these. The FPC not so much, but for home defense use I think it is just fine. If you were to ask me which is the last one I would get rid of, it would definitely be the GHM9.

I haven't tried a Homesteader, and the reviews I've seen are keeping me from buying one. If you are willing to spend more than $1k, the Banshee or the B&T APC9 would also be worth considering. Another I haven't used, but would say is well worth your time to investigate is the Extar EP9 pistol w/brace. They seem to be somewhat cheaply made, but the reviews I've seen are quite complimentary. This might be just the one for you to get started in this realm.

Lastly, there is one other pistol that you should consider. Right now you can get a Beretta PMX pistol from Bereli for $1099 + free delivery. And IIRC, there is currently a rebate for this pistol too. This pistol is basically Beretta's copy of a B&T pistol, and even uses the same magazines. At this time, I do not know of a GHM9 that is cheaper than that. The full-auto version is used by European police agencies, so it does have a very good track record. Buy one of these and put a folding brace on it, and you are golden. Or SBR it and put a proper stock on it. If I didn't already have one of the above and were looking to buy some type of PDW-type 9mm weapon tomorrow, I would seriously consider this one. Just research stock/brace options before you buy one. I'm thinking about getting one just so my wife and I don't have to fight over the GHM9. :-)

hth,
C

p.s. (2nd lastly), you could always get a gen3 Glock 17 and an ENDO buffer tube adapter from Shockwavetechnologies (or something like that). Put a buffer tube and pistol brace on it, along with a red dot sight, and you will have what is essentially a very lightweight PDW. Of course you could also SBR the thing too, if you want a more substantial buttstock. The ENDO does not work w/Gen 4 or 5 Glocks. These things really bring out the accuracy inherent in a Glock pistol.

aggieforester05
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MP5 clone
PSA AK-V
CMMG Banshee 9mm
Caladan
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aggieforester05 said:

MP5 clone
PSA AK-V
CMMG Banshee 9mm
If you can tell me where one can buy any decent MP5 clone or a Banshee for under $1k, I'm all ears.

Well, eyes really.....

C
aggieforester05
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Banshee maybe not, but I'm pretty sure the MP5 clones have made it under during sales. I unfortunately bought both of mine before they started dumping prices.
Watchful Ag
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Following. I've been eyeing a 9mm carbine for some time so this thread is perfect timing.
Caladan
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ttha_aggie_09 said:

Optics: would like to throw a red dot on it (I think that rules out the Kel-Tec)
Something I forget to address in my first post: Keltec has come out with the 3rd generation Sub2000 that has the ability to mount a red dot sight. Evidently the barrel rotates along its axis as it folds. Therefore, a mounted red dot just rotates out of the way as the barrel is swung over the receiver. Other big change is that it no longer has iron (plastic) sights, at least as pictured on their website. Since they take Glock mags, this might be of use to you. Probably still retains the reciprocating charging handle and plastic trigger parts. You can purchase better trigger parts, but you can't change the reciprocating charging handle. I've used the gen. 2 before, but didn't really care for it. TBH, I would get a gen. 3 G17 and an ENDO buffer tube adapter w/brace, along with a pistol RDS before I would get a Keltec. And the G17 would take Glock mags!

C
Watchful Ag
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Glad Caladan pointed that out because I thought I was crazy just now looking at their website.

Also .. Sportsman's Warehouse has them on sale for $399 right now. Case closed for me. Happy shopping OP



Caladan
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Young man - it's past your bedtime!!

Also, for fifty bucks more you could have gotten an Extar EP9. Just sayin'..... ;-)
Marauder Blue 6
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Aero Precision EPC-9
Aggie Infantry
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We have rules!
Post pics of the gun!
When the truth comes out, do not ask me how I knew.
Ask yourself why you did not.
Ridge14
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I've been really looking at this too, been wanting one for myself.

Unfortunately I want one ambi or lefty. If that's important to you at all then Banshee/MPX-K might be options, but higher than your budget.
ttha_aggie_09
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Is going over $1,000 really going to yield that much better of an option? Honest question.

I'm not opposed to it but am not going to be shooting this thing competitively. If reliability is that much better, sure I'll entertain it.
BenderRodriguez
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ttha_aggie_09 said:

Is going over $1,000 really going to yield that much better of an option? Honest question.

I'm not opposed to it but am not going to be shooting this thing competitively. If reliability is that much better, sure I'll entertain it.

If you hadn't mentioned suppressor, I would say no. But you did, so I'm going to say yes.

Direct blowback guns will never be as pleasant to shoot suppressed as something like a roller delay style design like an MP5 or clone. It's just physics.

You can get the Century imported AP5 for barely over 1,000. I think Atlantic has them for under 1100 still.

Its Turkish made, so not as nice as the gucci german MP5s. But I have two of them, I run the absolute crap out of them and they work well.

I have owned a Sub2k and a Scorpion Evo in the past. I now own two MP5 clones.
SharkinAg
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Caladan said:

aggieforester05 said:

MP5 clone
PSA AK-V
CMMG Banshee 9mm
If you can tell me where one can buy any decent MP5 clone or a Banshee for under $1k, I'm all ears.

Well, eyes really.....

C


Oh my bad. Failed to see the sub 1000 part. Not sure then to be honest. I only have experience with the cmmg. I almost went the scorpion route but those seem to have fallen in popularity. Not sure why.
BenderRodriguez
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SharkinAg said:

almost went the scorpion route but those seem to have fallen in popularity. Not sure why.

They're good, reliable little guns. I'll probably pick up another one eventually.

The honest answer on their popularity is that with the turkish mp5 clones dropping in price and other options like the GHM9 that have come out since it was introduced, there are other guns close in price to the scorpion that offer either perceived or actual benefits, for not much of a price jump,,,especially if you're going to suppress it, which is also more popular now than it was when the evos first came out.
BenderRodriguez
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Aggie Infantry said:

We have rules!
Post pics of the gun!


Okay. MP5>everything if suppressed

ttha_aggie_09
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I was hoping you would weigh in, not that I haven't appreciated everyone else's feedback too.

I am looking at the Century models and it looks like one is better equipped to run suppressed - I think that is the AP-5 Core model. Do you know which one that is?

Second, on your braced pistol with the vertical grip, is it SBR'd? My brain isn't working this morning and I cannot remember the exact rules on vertical grip and pistols... I seem to remember you can't have them but it has been a few years since this was of concern to me and I just SBR'd those.
RockwallAg
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PSA AR-V 7" 9mm 1/10 Nitride Tri-Lug MOE EPT PDW Pistol | Palmetto State Armory
BenderRodriguez
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Those are both SBRs, thats just the hideously ugly 90s styling of the choate stock up top.

I think the model of AP5 you want to avoid is the -M, which is the K sized gun without the trilug or threaded barrel. Just double check that you're picking up a threaded one.

I also think the "core" terminology is just the basic package that doesnt include accessories like cleaning kit, but double check that too.

Eta: AP5 is full size model, AP5-P is K size. Different furniture, stocks, and barrel lengths between the two.
Caladan
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ttha_aggie_09 said:

Is going over $1,000 really going to yield that much better of an option? Honest question.

I'm not opposed to it but am not going to be shooting this thing competitively. If reliability is that much better, sure I'll entertain it.
The firearms I mentioned above have never had a malfunction of any type. They are accurate, and they are pleasant to shoot, especially the GHM9 which has a hydraulic recoil buffer. Then again, I've not ever met a 9mm firearm that was unpleasant to shoot.

Going over $1k will definitely get you some very nice features, and a subjectively cooler gun. But I do not know how you can get more than 100% reliable. And IMO, I don't think you can get substantially better practicle accuracy by going over $1k. Or to put it another way - if you can't hit it with something like a CX-4 or GHM9 or Scorpion, then you aren't going to hit it with an MP5 either.

If you are going to go over $1k, then besides the Banshee and MP5, also look at the Sig MPX K, or perhaps even the MPX Copperhead if you are feeling funky. But the good new is - you have a lot of really great options besides the ones we have that are under $1k.

C
NoahAg
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SanAntoneAg said:

I shot a box through my 9mm Hi-Point carbine a couple weeks ago. As always, fun stuff.

She ugly. Paid $75 for her a few years back.
I too have a Hi-Point.
I consider it my moped of guns.
ttha_aggie_09
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Thank you sir! I appreciate the feedback.
ttha_aggie_09
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I've been eyeballing these but seems like some bad reviews on slide lock?
P.U.T.U
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Lol moped of guns. Those things are dumb and have no magazine capacity but boy are they fun to shoot and you don't have to worry about getting them scratch. They are like the AK47s of PCCs, they always fire and are fun to shoot. Just can't shoot them in front of certain friends
AggieT
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Ditto on the MP5 clones. If they are out of stock at Atlantic, Dahlonega Armory has the same pricing. Just under $1100 (no brace/stock). Awesome to shoot, and almost zero gas in your face suppressed.
ttha_aggie_09
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I am not seeing that with that price on their website... do you have a link?
AggieT
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AP5
AP5-P

Add it to the cart and the price is $1,077.
Animal Eight 84
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$1000 price limit- is that what you're gonna tell your wife it costs OR the real amount?
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