If you had around 50 acres of a dense hackberry stand and 350 acres of heavy mesquite growth to clear, how would you go about removing it? All options I am looking at used equipment. Keep in mind that one can most likely pay for a piece of equipment through the program if they do the work themselves.

Option 1: Lease an excavator to grub it and then buy a skid steer and brush rake to pile it up throughout the place?

Option 2: Buy excavator grub place, sell excavator then turn around and buy skid steer and brush rake to pile/clean place up.

Option 3: contract a professional to do it and not touch it yourself at all but most likely get the job done much faster than doing it on your own

Wishing there was a way to be able to clear that amount with just a big skid steer but don't think that is a feasible option. One guy told me I'd be playing bumper cars with mesquite going that route.

I was on the EQUIP program for Cedar (Ashe Juniper). Around 800 acres give or take. I don't have any experience on hackberry or mesquite. We had little mesquite.
I started off with renting a skid steer with a tree shear and I already owned a CASE 580 LL that I had a grapple on.
After a few months I realized it was going to take me forever for the time I had to devote to it…. And the timeline of the EQUIP program.
So I decided to hire the shearing done and I would do the stacking. Even with that I could not keep up so I had the same guy stack for me sometimes.
Here is the deal…… if you get a true professional that does that all day for a living…. he can work very fast compared to yourself going through the learning curve, and machine maintenance.
If you go that route I would suggest doing a per job contract instead of hourly contract That way you don't have a guy take advantage of you on hours.
I don't know your country but I will caution that if you have *****ly pear cactus….DO NOT brush rake or blade/bulldoze your land to clear or stack the trees. You will scatter the pear leaves and you will have 400 acres of cactus in a couple of years with more expense.
Don't blade or push your trees/brush to stack piles…IF you have PP Cactus….. pick up the Trees/brush to stack it in piles with a good grapple. That way you don't pile up all your dirt and rocks by pushing the trees/brush with a blade or rake.
I wish you good luck on your project.

What did your NRCS yayhoo say? If the hackberry is any size at all, it can be dozed fairly easily, but shearing it will make a sprouting mess, I fear. I know you specified mechanical, but on the mesquite, is aerial spraying an option? Beyond that, you may be looking at a root plow and re$eeding job. At least that way you can do some "sculpting" . Good luck, and have your checkbook ready.

We have pretty bad pear on the north 160 acres of the place, but had it flown and the chemical did a pretty dang good job of getting a kill across the entire quarter section. This was about 10 months ago. Will that still be a problem spreading pear by the time I get to that portion of the contract in 2025?

Probably not. A year is usually ample.

We are surrounded by cotton farms in every direction. I don't think that hitting it aerially with Sendero is an option after the Reagan/Glasscock/Mitchell County fiascos from a few years ago. As far as I know, I'm locked into doing it mechanically.

What county?

Eastern Tom Green County. About 5 miles west of the Concho County line.

Not if you got a good complete kill…. But if some is left it will spread it……again only if you " push" the piles.
We had pear but not real bad. The guy that cut the cedar told me he would "stack" it. He ended up pushing it into piles like a rake or dozer blade would. He spread that damn pear so bad I had to spend another 30K spraying Surmount two years later to kill all the pear.
All the areas where I (and eventually him after he bought a grapple) that we picked up the trees and actually stacked them in piles had no PP cactus spread or growth.
I never realized how prolific it can be spread.

10/4. A heavy duty grapple would be handier to have around than a rake anyways. Thanks for the input Gunny, you're full of knowledge on lots of subjects.

As I said I have no experience clearing Hackberry or Lots of mesquite. One good thing about cedar…, you can shear it at even ground level and it won't sprout again. Not so on your stuff.

I just try to share my experiences. I have waisted lots of $$$ over the years on the places learning the hard way. I just hope I can help someone else not waste time and money.
B-1-83 is very knowledgeable on spraying and herbicides and fertilizer….he makes his living at it… gotta be good. He has helped me immensely on a mess I had in MO!

Trying to do 350 acres with and excavator and a thumb would take forever if it is thick. Quickest way would be a dozer with a root rake but you will spread seed and *****ly pear. I would go with a dozer even though it may cost more money but you can chemically control the PP. Regrowth on trees can also be controlled with remedy and diesel. Unfortunately it's a never ending battle. Out that way, if you could get good grass established and do prescribed burns, you might have better luck controlling regrowth and not have to spend as much money on chemical.

I've got a skid steer with tree puller and grapple and there is no way i would tackle that much acreage with equipment so small. I don't shear my honey locust, mesquites or other trash trees because they just come back up as a bush unless you can treat all the stumps immediately after you cut them. You also have stumps at round level that you now have to deal with for years. They are hell on plows, drills, tires etc. Pulling my trash trees has worked well but in my area you have to do the job under the right conditions. Too dry and you break off too many roots, don't get the tap root, can't get the larger trees at all and it's much harder on your equipment. Too wet and it's just a muddy mess and you end up digging huge ruts trying to get out trees of size. But, when the conditions are right, I can pull out trees up to 12" in caliper fairly easily and get them stacked in manageable burn piles.

I have got a Danuser Intimidator on a John Deere 333D equipped with rear extra weights.
It works well. Never been able to pull 12" diameter Honey
Locust on our place in the Ozarks. Damn things are horrible. I gotta rock the machine back and forth to get 6"-8" out. Same on a lot of our oaks and eastern cedar. Maybe it's the clay soils. I have even tried it right after rains. Mine just won't pull trees that large in diameter. Wish it could.

Why not use a hydro axe/mulcher, then spray new growth?

I need to look into this program, would love to go to town on yaupon, chinese tallow and whatever the thorny bush that spits out yellow fruit is on my place.

Because pear and mesquite regrowth from a mulcher comes back with a vengeance.

I've been applying since 2019 and finally got my application accepted. The more practices you apply for the better of a chance you will have to get accepted. We are doing a water pipeline and storage facility as well as a trough off of storage facility, mechanical brush removal and interior fencing.

Took me 4 years as well. They explained they have some kind of points system.
They were ok to work with to a point. I wanted to leave some virgin cedar for animal cover and travel ways. They said if I did not clear every tree they would not pay anything per the contract.
I protested it formally and showed how it would prevent erosion and degradation of the waterways and tributaries and they waived it.
On our pipeline they spec'd black polyurethane and I wanted to use schedule 80PVC. They would not allow me to upgrade…. So I payed for it myself and we moved that money budgeted to fencing.

Times have changed……under many old programs if you went above and beyond (assuming this was not above ground) they were cool and would pay you based on the original.

I am getting some wildlife incentive for leaving strips/clumps of brush to be utilized by wildlife as bedding and corridor areas. They asked me if i wanted to clear the place fence to fence and I asked about leaving some for deer and the agent told me about some incentive for leaving some here and there.

This new guy that just took over my application in January has been awesome to work with so far. He just showed up and has worked his tail off to correct the error on the most recent application that my old agent had screwed up royally.

She left out a lot of acres of grubbing/raking and reseeding and then left to a different job but submitted the application and it was accepted but not the way we had planned on it at all. At first when I showed up to sign the contract I was told I would just have to accept it the way it was and could reapply next year for the additional acreage. I was pretty surprised by the amount she had left off and asked if there was anything that could be done. This guy ran my request up the chain to his zone office and was able to get my plan as I had requested approved on short notice.

So, needless to say, I am very happy that the girl with a bachelors and Masters degree from PVAMU whose knowledge of ag seemed to stop at her backyard chickens is no longer handling my application.

Gunny456 said:

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I have got a Danuser Intimidator on a John Deere 333D equipped with rear extra weights.
It works well. Never been able to pull 12" diameter Honey
Locust on our place in the Ozarks. Damn things are horrible. I gotta rock the machine back and forth to get 6"-8" out. Same on a lot of our oaks and eastern cedar. Maybe it's the clay soils. I have even tried it right after rains. Mine just won't pull trees that large in diameter. Wish it could.

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Pretty much the same setup for me with the 333G but I have a Whites Tree Puller (wish I had the Dunuser). When I get up to that 12" inch tree it's not easy but doable. I usually use the tree puller to break some of the lateral roots and have to rock it back and forth a few times to break it free. Good thing is I don't have a bunch that size. Previous owner used a dozer and root plowed most of it out 20 years ago and the new ones are usually in the 6 to 8 inch size or smaller. Also, as mentioned, soil conditions have to be right. When it's dry I have a hard time even with the 6 to 8 inch trees and it's impossible with the larger.

I'll also say it's very satisfying to sit in that skid steer and yank those suckers out of the ground. I'm amazed at the tap roots on huisache, mesquites and honey locust. I'll grab them at the base and lift the tree vertically 10+ feet in the air and then back up sometimes before the tap root comes completely free of the ground. I've had a couple that had to have 15+ foot tap roots on them. No wonder they can survive a nuclear blast.

The ones that are a real pain are the ones that have been shredded over and re-sprout. I'll get up on one and think it's going to be easy and it just breaks off at ground level. Use the puller to dig around a bit and usually find a living stump 3 to 6 inches in diameter that is a pain the ass to grab and pull out.

I understand from our extension agent that in a pasture full of honey locust that there is a "mother tree". Its roots run to some of the others. I have found that to be oddly true it seems.
Have you ever pulled a large honey locust and have a lot of milky brown water run out of it? Somewhat gross.

Not that I recall but they seem to grow in groves. I'll keep an eye out for it here in the near future. With this recent rain, as soon as my creek bottom dries out I've got about 50 more I need to pull since the conditions will be right again. Stupid things are everywhere.

Just curious but don't they have some pellets you can fly on a few times over 3-4 years where it will knock tons of that stuff out ? Not sure about Mesquite but we sprayed about 300 acres of all kinds of brush in Goliad county about 15 years ago and we knocked it way way back. But I'm not sure what we used, my dad did it when he was still around

Actually found this table put out by none other than Texas A&M University showing what chemicals will kill all different kinds of weeds, brush, etc.

https://southtexasrangelands.tamu.edu/files/2020/05/ERM1466_5-20.pdf

Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

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I am getting some wildlife incentive for leaving strips/clumps of brush to be utilized by wildlife as bedding and corridor areas. They asked me if i wanted to clear the place fence to fence and I asked about leaving some for deer and the agent told me about some incentive for leaving some here and there.

This new guy that just took over my application in January has been awesome to work with so far. He just showed up and has worked his tail off to correct the error on the most recent application that my old agent had screwed up royally.

She left out a lot of acres of grubbing/raking and reseeding and then left to a different job but submitted the application and it was accepted but not the way we had planned on it at all. At first when I showed up to sign the contract I was told I would just have to accept it the way it was and could reapply next year for the additional acreage. I was pretty surprised by the amount she had left off and asked if there was anything that could be done. This guy ran my request up the chain to his zone office and was able to get my plan as I had requested approved on short notice.

So, needless to say, I am very happy that the girl with a bachelors and Masters degree from PVAMU whose knowledge of ag seemed to stop at her backyard chickens is no longer handling my application.

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Try training a kid as an NRCS Soil Conservationist who had never seen fertilizer……….he had driven a tractor, however, on the PV farm……

OP - next time ask for Grant T. He comes from a long line of farmers, ranchers, and range conservationists. Tell him his old Corpus agronomist sent you.

That is awesome for you. The coolest thing for me was watching our place transform from a cedar infested labyrinth to pretty views and then the native grasses coming back. And all our oak trees loved being able to have light and water again!
Enjoy the journey of the project. We are blessed to " borrow" the land from our God. Relish that you will leave it much better than when you got it. Be very proud of that.

Wow.. I can only imagine!

Gunny456 said:

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That is awesome for you. The coolest thing for me was watching our place transform from a cedar infested labyrinth to pretty views and then the native grasses coming back. And all our oak trees loved being able to have light and water again!
Enjoy the journey of the project. We are blessed to " borrow" the land from our God. Relish that you will leave it much better than when you got it. Be very proud of that.

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I plan on transforming this little place into something to be proud of and hope it's something that my kids and niece and nephew will take care of when we are long gone. It ain't the biggest place but it's ours, and I sure have enjoyed it my entire life spending time with my grandfather, dad, uncles and cousins out there.

Hope to make many great memories out there with the next few generations. My dad and I have had all of the exterior fencing redone in the last few years. Eventually we would like to dig a couple more tanks where some springs/seeps have dried up. Hoping they will come back after we get all this dang brush peeled off the place. Lots of work to be done, but I enjoy the process.

Memories that you will cherish forever!

Grant is married to my cousin. He lives about 2 miles from the place I am working on. His youngest boy Holt will help us work sheep every once in a while. My first cousins and uncle also pick cotton for Grants brother down in the valley.

Not sure why I was assigned the newby on this application but Grant is awesome and wish he'd have been the one that got my plan. Maybe there is some sort of conflict of interest since we are related by marriage. Not sure.

Worked with his brother in the Valley many times (poor mofo is right on the river). Grant is technically on another level of bureaucracy, and not really "field personnel" per se, but I guarantee you can request him. Good hombre.