Entering into this rabbit hole. Any insight from trusted outdoors board?

Mostly hunting pigs and predators, 10x per year, hunt with kiddo, almost never require shot over 100 yards, going on AR, recording video and copying over to my phone would be nice, willing to spend 2-3k if necessary but a good value buy of less money is an even bigger win.

I've tried friends low duality and older thermal vs a decent IR rig and the IR was infinitely better but that was apples to oranges.

Saw the other topic with some pulsar and AGM suggestions but curious if IR world might be more applicable for me.

Each technology certainly has it's pros and cons. You will see animals with thermal that will never be seen with night vision. Think about times you have sat in a deer blind and a deer shows up out of no where. They were likely in the brush the whole time but you didn't see them until there was movement. That's what you get with night vision. Unless you get eye reflection or movement you will overlook animals. Thermal detects heat gradients so you don't need movement to detect the animal. That said, neither tech can see through tall grass, vegitation, etc (not like the movies where they look through walls...)

With kids I would definately recommend a scope that has a remote viewing app. Will keep them engaged when you are on the scope and help you coach them when they are on the scope.

I've been using and selling thermal since 2016. As we discussed in the other thread, comparing one unit to another is not always straight forward as there's no industry standards.

Happy to answer any questions I can.

Thermal. In your price range I'd look at AGM Rattler 35-384 or Pulsar Talion

Nealthedestroyer said:

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Thermal is king for killing animals and positive identification. i2(head mounted gen3 image intensified night vision) is king for navigation, driving and making war.

In that budget and engagement distance a thermal scope from AGM, iRay, or Bering Optics with a 384 core would be a decent choice. Most of their models allow for streaming to your phone and recording video/pictures.

I'd also hit up Shawn at Kelso Arms for a more experienced opinion.

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I will disagree that thermal is better than DNV for positive id (maybe just a mater of the definition on what positive id means).

Thermal definitely has the advantage for long range detection and obscured view detection over DNV for sure, but within its working range, DNV far exceeds thermal for positive id. When I either predator or hog hunt my routine it detect with a thermal monocular and then shoot with DNV with an external IR illuminator. Some of the places I go I have to be 100% sure I'm not shooting the landowner's or neighbor's dog and you just can't be perfectly positive with thermal.

BenderRodriguez said:

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But you really want both. Both is awesome

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Deus Vult said:

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Thermal definitely has the advantage for long range detection and obscured view detection over DNV for sure, but within its working range, DNV far exceeds thermal for positive id. When I either predator or hog hunt my routine it detect with a thermal monocular and then shoot with DNV with an external IR illuminator. Some of the places I go I have to be 100% sure I'm not shooting the landowner's or neighbor's dog and you just can't be perfectly positive with thermal.

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I agree with both of these when budget allows. Newer, high def thermal aside, I believe POSITIVE ID will always be better with NV. If budget only allows one or the other, I would go thermal first in this scenario.

It's entirely possible to learn animal behaviors and use them to ID target type (deer vs pig vs calf vs coyote, etc). Positive ID between coyote and rancher's dog is not as easy with thermal. Those are situation where practicing restraint is key.

FYI, NEALTHEDESTROYER is your guy if you want to go the nv route vs thermal. He sells a lot more of it than I do so he's more plugged into the market, gets better deals from the manufacturers, etc.

Last time I borrowed a thermal, although it was an older model, I remember being skeptical in a few different hunts, didn't know if I was about to shoot the neighbors dog or coyote, etc. I'd like to think I can tell how the two move very differently but when about to pull the trigger I was definitely being extremely cautious.

With such short range, and wanting to make sure a positive ID is made, should I be digging deeper into the IR with NV world? Any suggestions on brands for that route? I feel like my friends NV scope was like $500-750 or something.

Theres 3 different technologies that have been mentioned thus far.

1)Thermal
2)Digital Night Vision (DNV)
3) Analog night vision (tubed)

I would say the best DNV on the market is equivalent to a Gen 2 or Gen 2+ analog unit. Gen 3 with good specs will blow it away.

If your buddy's scope was i that price range it was likely lower end digital night vision. Which is better than no night vision but has limitations. These are older videos I made but they should give you some idea of the differences.

Older tech 384 core Thermal looking at rabbits (much smaller heat source than your intended targets). Newer 384 has better firmware and finer micron sensor so better picture.



Higher end digital night vision on clear night with a decent amount of moonlight. Works well in open pasture type are. Would not be as good in brush that reflects IR.



Although newer tech is better, of the videos I have, this one probably shows the difference in thermal & DNV the best. This was shot with a Pulsar Trionix binocular that does both thermal and DNV. So the video you see is same unit, same deer, switching bewteen sensors.



Edit: spelling...

I would atill recommend thermal if your budget only allows one unit. As far as suggestions on brands and models, I need a little more info.

How much experience do you have hunting at night? What types of hunting will you do most often - stand hunting feeder at known distances, openings in brush with known distances, spot and stalk in open fields?

If you haven't already learned to judge distance in the dark and will hunt areas you do not know well, a range finder is handy to have. I've spotten targets in open fields I would bet are under 100 and ranged them at 300+.

Very helpful information. I'm planning to share and split these costs with some friends so the price range seems more palatable. Sounds like thermal is the way to go.

Typically hunting out of a blind with known distances. My friends are typically the same with an occasional explore around looking. But by far majority is in blind with known distances.

Not to change the subject, but can you get high fom L3 pvs14's?

I'm thinking of selling an older ATN Thor HD 384. Anyone know what a fair price would be ? Anyone interested ?

I can thermal and shoot nv. I prefer the higher resolution for shooting. I used to be so thermal all the time. I go back and forth somewhat.