Our volunteer fire department has been asked to sponsor a newly formed Cub Scout Pack. No problem, we've done it before and like doing it.

The Pack Leader has asked if they can use our tax exempt status in their fund raising activities. According to him, this is common practice these days in the scouting community.

I know there are lots of former scouts, and scout leaders here. Is this really a thing now?

It's called a fiscal sponsorship. It's perfectly legit and done all the time unless I misunderstand the question. Google fiscal sponsorship and see if that's what applies here.

Scouts need a sponsor. Most sponsors are churches or 503c. Any property the scouting unit owns is the property of the sponsor. the scouting unit does not own anything themselves. If they disband, the sponsoor gets the assets and cash in scout bank account.

that said, some of the sponsors let their units use their 503c tax exempt number. Ours did not let us use it. the sponsor did not want the troop too to jeopardize their tax status.

You can't use the Counsil tax ID , because they use it to raise money for the Area Council.

Scouts has set us a liability limiting structure. Just know that by being a troop sponsor, you accept some troop exposure and risk. Sponsor must sign some documents. Make sure adults have child safe training, insurance risk on camping trips, etc.

I am pretty sure that is standard practice.

Definitely standard practice. Scouting units are not allowed to register as a stand alone 501C3. We have a letter from our charter org that states we are chartered by them and allowed to use their tax exemption. I've never heard of a unit not being allowed to use the charter orgs tax id - the unit belongs to you and is a extension of your organization.

Let them set up a separate bank account and insist on an annual audit. The audit doesn't have to be a big deal - a couple hours to make sure receipts and records are maintained for each transaction. Make sure the two treasurers coordinate for end of year filings.

This is why you see so many Mormon sponsored groups.

I didn't mean to pick an emoji…

mpl35 said:

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This is why you see so many Mormon sponsored groups.

I didn't mean to pick an emoji…

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Scouts was the official mandatory youth program for LDS youth, then BSA capitulated to the alphabet mafia, the mormons made their own program, BSA lost 30+% of membership and revenue so they let girls in.

Go woke. Go broke.

Also this is normal chartering process. Lots of charities and organizations have to charter now as Methodist churches and Catholic churches have stopped due to abuse litigation liability concerns.

HDeathstar said:

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Scouts need a sponsor. Most sponsors are churches or 503c. Any property the scouting unit owns is the property of the sponsor. the scouting unit does not own anything themselves. If they disband, the sponsoor gets the assets and cash in scout bank account.

that said, some of the sponsors let their units use their 503c tax exempt number. Ours did not let us use it. the sponsor did not want the troop too to jeopardize their tax status.

You can't use the Counsil tax ID , because they use it to raise money for the Area Council.

Scouts has set us a liability limiting structure. Just know that by being a troop sponsor, you accept some troop exposure and risk. Sponsor must sign some documents. Make sure adults have child safe training, insurance risk on camping trips, etc.

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I believe the liability issue is why UMC has officially parted ways with BSA. We BSA leaders had to go through the BSA youth protection training as well as the youth protection training by the church. The troop I was formerly associated with was forced to break official ties with a church they were chartered by 90 years ago. The congregation wanted to continue the relationship, but UMC required the contractual separation. The relationship became a hybrid where the troop charter moved to the local VFW who actually held charter for several other troops. Since the congregation wanted to keep some relationship with the troop they continued to let them use thechurch to meet but didn't cover them on liability insurance.

Well, sounds like if the VFD decides to do this, they probably got free truck washing for a while.

HumbleAg04 said:

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mpl35 said:

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This is why you see so many Mormon sponsored groups.

I didn't mean to pick an emoji…

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Scouts was the official mandatory youth program for LDS youth, then BSA capitulated to the alphabet mafia, the mormons made their own program, BSA lost 30+% of membership and revenue so they let girls in.

Go woke. Go broke.

Also this is normal chartering process. Lots of charities and organizations have to charter now as Methodist churches and Catholic churches have stopped due to abuse litigation liability concerns.

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This! My son's troop had to find a new home when the Methodist Church they had been at for 30 years revoked their charter and would only rent space to the troop at an unsustainable cost to the troop.

Our Troop was also kicked to the curb by a UMC church, that ironically a couple years later themselves disassociated with the UMC.

The UMC and Catholic churches didn't kick out scouting. I read all the documents and while they were very nerviness about the law suit and financial liability. They left it up to the local churches to decide and many choose not to maintain their troops/packs but many did.

The troops that I saw loose their charter had poor relationships with their charter organization and where not in a place to discuss and explain the situation. Basically the troop operated as a separate organization just using the churches property. When the church leadership read the actual charter document they had agreed too they backed out realizing that the relationship was a two way street that hadn't been maintained.

Now that the lawsuit is finalized and threat of liability is over there should be no issue with troops returning to those churches if the leadership and troops want's to enter into the charter.

To put this issue to bed, I have decided, and will pass my recommendation to the rest of the board, that the department will be happy to sponsor the pack and provide meeting rooms and storage. But, we will not participate in the Fiscal Partnership. The decision is based more on the fact that our office manager has too much on her plate already. She does not need further duties tracking donations and dispensing them appropriately.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and advice.

Tailgate88 said:

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Our Troop was also kicked to the curb by a UMC church, that ironically a couple years later themselves disassociated with the UMC.

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I wondered what happened there. All that was after my son Eagled out.

maroon barchetta said:

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Tailgate88 said:

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Our Troop was also kicked to the curb by a UMC church, that ironically a couple years later themselves disassociated with the UMC.

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I wondered what happened there. All that was after my son Eagled out.

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Mine had Eagled out too. Maybe "kicked to the curb"" was a little harsh but their charter was not renewed.

Tailgate88 said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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Tailgate88 said:

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Our Troop was also kicked to the curb by a UMC church, that ironically a couple years later themselves disassociated with the UMC.

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I wondered what happened there. All that was after my son Eagled out.

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Mine had Eagled out too. Maybe "kicked to the curb"" was a little harsh but their charter was not renewed.

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I'm still in that FB group and wondered why they had switched meeting locations and then pickup spots after campouts.

malenurse said:

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To put this issue to bed, I have decided, and will pass my recommendation to the rest of the board, that the department will be happy to sponsor the pack and provide meeting rooms and storage. But, we will not participate in the Fiscal Partnership. The decision is based more on the fact that our office manager has too much on her plate already. She does not need further duties tracking donations and dispensing them appropriately.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and advice.

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Then don't charter them. They can't raise money or open a bank account without it and all you're doing is crippling them.

It's literally a couple hours a year to audit their books and add their revenue to your annual form 990 (I've done this for 13 years now). Their treasurer handles the donations and any disbursements.

malenurse said:

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To put this issue to bed, I have decided, and will pass my recommendation to the rest of the board, that the department will be happy to sponsor the pack and provide meeting rooms and storage. But, we will not participate in the Fiscal Partnership. The decision is based more on the fact that our office manager has too much on her plate already. She does not need further duties tracking donations and dispensing them appropriately.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and advice.

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I am not a CPA so take this for what it is worth

I was formerly treasurer and council chair of a Cub Scout Pack. We had a charter organization that was a church. Per BSA policy the charter org (church) had to have a designated person as the Charter Rep. It was the official point of contact between the charter org and the Pack. In our case it was the Youth Minister. He signed our charter each year when it was renewed. We invited him to every pack meeting, leadership meeting, and event we held, and we never saw him except when it was time to get the signature on the charter renewal. The church was very hands off. In fact, the church also had a private school. When they hired a new headmaster who called me in to ask why we used the cafeteria after hours, she was quietly told by the church to mind her own business.

As for the financial concern, if there was ever a question about of non-profit status we used the EIN of the church since they were our charter org as per BSA directive. That doesn't mean we shared accounts or were ever audited by anyone. We had a bank account completely separated from the church that the Pack committee was personally fiscally liable for, and the bank was supplied all information related to this, including the EIN and the charter. There was no fiscal responsibility shared with the church.

As far as I know dang near every BSA org has this relationship with their charter org. So I don't quite understand the angst. Your VFD bookkeeper should not be doing anything for the Scouts, and fiscal responsibility isn't part of the charter agreement. If this were a huge financial issue I don't see why schools would also be chartering BSA units (Yes, some public schools charter BSA units).

Again, I am not a CPA, but I don't understand the quivering going on her (or on the B&I thread). BSA has been around over a century with these types of arrangements and agreements.