Background: arthritis is taking a toll with my shoulder: at the range the other day, my AK (7.62x39) hurt far more then usual, so I didn't even try with my Mosin Nagant .
Looking to days ahead, my wife and I will both be in a 55 and older housing community with less storage than I have now. She has had bad experiences with recoil, but I want a reliable PCC for both us. I am only considering 9mm due to price, ammo variety/availability and the wife's inexperience with firearms. I don't want an AR - style platform because there are likely new neighbors and friends who would be frightened of the tactical appearance of such a weapon. Similarly a nice .357 lever gun would suit me fine but might be beyond her ken to handle under stress.
So my choices appear to be the Henry Homesteader or the Ruger PCC.
Any other thoughts on this matter?

https://texags.com/forums/34/topics/3383243

Not as nice as the PCC, but the deals people are getting on these little guys are impressive!

I also have the sub 2000 in 9mm. It isn't a world beater, but it meets all of my needs.

-folds up to fit in backpack
-super light and easy to shoot
-kid safe when folded up, cannot pull trigger
-takes Glock MAGA

Biggest con: cannot find a good optic mount due to the foldable design. There are some out there that flip over but I chose to run without.

It's my "get out of dodge" unit that sits in a bag with extra mags and ammo.

Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

Most PCCs are straight blowback.

As such, they will have pretty high recoil even in 9mm, both due to how they operate and the weight required for the bolt.

Why are we showing friends and neighbors who might be weirded out by them our guns again?

schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

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I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

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I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

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An HOA restriction on the type of firearms you can own? Is that a thing?

Trigger06 said:

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UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

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I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

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An HOA restriction on the type of firearms you can own? Is that a thing?

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Only to someone with 74% of their posts on the politics board.

Trigger06 said:

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UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

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I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

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An HOA restriction on the type of firearms you can own? Is that a thing?

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Yep.
https://micondolaw.com/2020/04/24/can-an-association-limit-your-right-to-bear-arms/

Now maybe with some PCC experience can chime in.

My sub2k has seemingly as much felt recoil as my 5.56

BenderRodriguez said:

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Most PCCs are straight blowback.

As such, they will have pretty high recoil even in 9mm, both due to how they operate and the weight required for the bolt.

Why are we showing friends and neighbors who might be weirded out by them our guns again?

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Hopefully no one will see it except a burglar/home invader.

I'm with several of these guys. Get what works best for you and your wife for the intended purpose. And don't go showing it off to neighbors if you think they'll have an adverse reaction.

Also, consider moving somewhere that will be friendly to all of your interests, including your desire to protect your home.

What about a Beretta CX4?

Great shooter.

tandy miller said:

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My sub2k has seemingly as much felt recoil as my 5.56

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Yep. Thats been my experience with the sub2k, modern scorpion, ruger charger, etc too. the hydraulic buffered B&T stuff and the roller delayed stuff is better but straight blowback should give pause to anyone recoil sensitive.

This feels much more like I "I am justifying a previously made decision" post than seeking actual input…

Quote:

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I didn't even try with my Mosin Nagant .

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These kick worse than anything I've shot, and I don't usually notice recoil. Punishing.

One of many reasons mine is buried in the back of the safe.

Very pleased and impressed with my S&W FPC, easily allows storage with an optic mounted, good trigger, comes with 3 mags, mag storage in the stock.
All in an included soft case.
And so far, 100% reliable on feeding, firing, and ejection.

Naveronski said:

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Trigger06 said:

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UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

---

I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

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An HOA restriction on the type of firearms you can own? Is that a thing?

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Only to someone with 74% of their posts on the politics board.

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That's normally where 2nd amendment cases get the greatest traction, I have posted a lot of news articles from The Truth About Guns website there.

We have three PCC's - the CZ Scorpion, Beretta CX4, and the newly-introduced S&W FPC. While I don't feel that the recoil is as much as my AR's, they are pretty close. As already mentioned, this is because these are all blow-back designs with bolts that are somewhat heavy in order to absorb rearward energy (no tilt-barrel to unlock). Only you can say if the slightly reduced recoil is reduced enough for you.

Where the FPC and CX4 shine is in weight and length. These have the magazine well in the grip, thereby making them about 30" in length. They are also lighter in weight than my 16" AR's too, especially the FPC. Operation of these are very similar to a semi-auto pistol too, especially the Beretta.

My Beretta has well over 1k rounds through it, with zero malfunctions of any type. I can therefore highly recommend one now that you can find them new under $600. I have a red dot on mine since I can't really see the front sight any more. But if you can see rifle sights, the Beretta comes with iron sights built in. I really love this little compact rifle, and would never sell it.

The Scorpion has probably close to 1k rounds, also without any failures of any type. I don't shoot it as much as the CX4, and in fact I am going to sell it to a friend in order to fund the purchase of an AUG. I like the Scorpion, but I don't love it.

The FPC is new to us, so only about 400 rounds so far. No malfs of any type. I am really starting to like this rifle. But even though I really like it, I can't recommend one to someone else just yet since I haven' used it all that much. But I think that anyone thinking about a 9mm PCC should *really* consider this one. I can't think of any other PCC that has this combination of build quality, compact dimensions, and light weight. For your particular situation, this might well be the best choice.

If you are wondering why I don't have a Ruger PC or Henry Homesteader, I have seen a fair number of complaints about their reliability. Not that they are un-reliable - but just not as reliable as the weapons already mentioned. Nonetheless, I will probably end up w/a PC Carbine at some point in the future. I just have to get this AUG thing out of my system first.

C

GSS said:

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Very pleased and impressed with my S&W FPC, easily allows storage with an optic mounted, good trigger, comes with 3 mags, mag storage in the stock.
All in an included soft case.
And so far, 100% reliable on feeding, firing, and ejection.

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Same here. It is really growing on me........

C

I'd tell my new neighbors and HOA to pound sand but that's just me.

aggiebrother33 said:

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I also have the sub 2000 in 9mm.

Biggest con: cannot find a good optic mount due to the foldable design. There are some out there that flip over but I chose to run without.

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If one day your eyes get too old to see the iron sights (like me) and you decide to pursue an optic, Midwest Industries makes a Sub-2k mount that does not flip over. Instead, it just rotates the optic out of the path of the barrel when you flip it open/closed. IOW - rotate, flip, rotate back, done. Also does not make the gun wider such as the mount from M*Carbo. I don't own a Sub-2k so I can't speak to how well it works, but you shouldn't have any trouble finding reviews on the thing.

C

OP- what about a Ruger LC Carbine?

Not 9mm, but fits your other 2 criteria.


Also, why would your neighbors ever need to see your guns? Do you not have a gun case? If so, they wouldn't be able to tell if it's a scARe 15 or a musket

Caladan said:

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We have three PCC's - the CZ Scorpion, Beretta CX4, and the newly-introduced S&W FPC. While I don't feel that the recoil is as much as my AR's, they are pretty close. As already mentioned, this is because these are all blow-back designs with bolts that are somewhat heavy in order to absorb rearward energy (no tilt-barrel to unlock). Only you can say if the slightly reduced recoil is reduced enough for you.

Where the FPC and CX4 shine is in weight and length. These have the magazine well in the grip, thereby making them about 30" in length. They are also lighter in weight than my 16" AR's too, especially the FPC. Operation of these are very similar to a semi-auto pistol too, especially the Beretta.

My Beretta has well over 1k rounds through it, with zero malfunctions of any type. I can therefore highly recommend one now that you can find them new under $600. I have a red dot on mine since I can't really see the front sight any more. But if you can see rifle sights, the Beretta comes with iron sights built in. I really love this little compact rifle, and would never sell it.

The Scorpion has probably close to 1k rounds, also without any failures of any type. I don't shoot it as much as the CX4, and in fact I am going to sell it to a friend in order to fund the purchase of an AUG. I like the Scorpion, but I don't love it.

The FPC is new to us, so only about 400 rounds so far. No malfs of any type. I am really starting to like this rifle. But even though I really like it, I can't recommend one to someone else just yet since I haven' used it all that much. But I think that anyone thinking about a 9mm PCC should *really* consider this one. I can't think of any other PCC that has this combination of build quality, compact dimensions, and light weight. For your particular situation, this might well be the best choice.

If you are wondering why I don't have a Ruger PC or Henry Homesteader, I have seen a fair number of complaints about their reliability. Not that they are un-reliable - but just not as reliable as the weapons already mentioned. Nonetheless, I will probably end up w/a PC Carbine at some point in the future. I just have to get this AUG thing out of my system first.

C

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Thanks. That was valuable to know.

tandy miller said:

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OP- what about a Ruger LC Carbine?

Not 9mm, but fits your other 2 criteria.


Also, why would your neighbors ever need to see your guns? Do you not have a gun case? If so, they wouldn't be able to tell if it's a scARe 15 or a musket

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Obviously, Tandy, you've never lived around nosy old people.

UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

---

I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

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There is no HOA that can tell you what tools you can and cannot keep in your own home.

I wouldnt GAF if they are old and scared or not, that is their problem and no way would i sacrifice what i think is best to appease some stranger. They have the issue, not you.

Again, that is me though. I would educate them to the beat Incould, after that they would be told to mind their own damned business.

UTExan said:

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Trigger06 said:

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UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

---

I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

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An HOA restriction on the type of firearms you can own? Is that a thing?

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Yep.
https://micondolaw.com/2020/04/24/can-an-association-limit-your-right-to-bear-arms/

Now maybe with some PCC experience can chime in.

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Eh... https://www.hoamanagement.com/hoa-rules-on-guns/#:~:text=As%20per%20District%20of%20Columbia,keeping%20guns%20in%20their%20homes.

UTExan said:

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Trigger06 said:

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UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

---

I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

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An HOA restriction on the type of firearms you can own? Is that a thing?

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Yep.
https://micondolaw.com/2020/04/24/can-an-association-limit-your-right-to-bear-arms/

Now maybe with some PCC experience can chime in.

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That article is full of what ifs and maybes. It also is written under the assumption that the HOA owns the property, not you.

It is wrong on many aspects.

But you believe what you want and let your neighbors dictate how you live inaide your own residence if that is what makes you happy.

schmellba99 said:

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UTExan said:

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Trigger06 said:

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UTExan said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Your choice man, but I cannot fathom not getting what is probably one of the best overall platforms simply because a neighbor might get scared seeing it.

Unless you are pointing it at that neighbor, no reason they should be scared and honestly no reason you should care what they think about your choice of firearm to keep for your purposes.

But that's me.

---

I hear you, but these are old people. They honestly think an AR is a weapon of war while a lever gun is not. Besides, there could be HOA restrictions depending on where we move. I am an old Army:LEO guy. I want something my wife feels absolutely capable of handling and the PCC seems to be the sweet spot. The rest is aesthetics.

---

An HOA restriction on the type of firearms you can own? Is that a thing?

---

Yep.
https://micondolaw.com/2020/04/24/can-an-association-limit-your-right-to-bear-arms/

Now maybe with some PCC experience can chime in.

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That article is full of what ifs and maybes. It also is written under the assumption that the HOA owns the property, not you.

It is wrong on many aspects.

But you believe what you want and let your neighbors dictate how you live inaide your own residence if that is what makes you happy.

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Well, thanks, Schmelba. Do you have any thoughts on the PCC ?

tandy miller said:

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OP- what about a Ruger LC Carbine?

Not 9mm, but fits your other 2 criteria.


Also, why would your neighbors ever need to see your guns? Do you not have a gun case? If so, they wouldn't be able to tell if it's a scARe 15 or a musket

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The LC is an interesting option. Cost of ammo and commonality with my handguns is my consideration and some of newer offerings of 9 mm are fairly potent:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=303

As mentioned, the sub2k has more recoil than I assumed it would have. But a screw on brake would probably help that tremendously

El Chupacabra said:

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As mentioned, the sub2k has more recoil than I assumed it would have. But a screw on brake would probably help that tremendously

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To that end, m carbo makes a rubber buffer you can put behind the bolt as well. With one or both it would prob shoot much softer

Based on your concerns, I suggest a Marlin 1894 CSBL.
8 shots of .357 in a traditional rifle that's easy to handle.
Light, compact.
You & wife could practice with very low recoil .38 Special cowboy action shooting loads and just use .357 for self defense.
Unless you store a PCC loaded with one in the chamber, I think a lever gun may be easy for her to operate under stress.

Personal I have an AR15 in my bedroom.
Also have bad arthritis in my right hand.
My wife prefers her single shot .410 as her go to gun, just like Sherry the waitress.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/is-this-the-ultimate-lever-gun-for-self-defense/

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/5/18/editors-picks-2018-marlin-model-1894-csbl-rifle/

Carry whatever you get in a gun case if you're concerned how the neighbors feel about appearance? That removes one of the problems you're trying to find a solution to.

UTExan said:

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Background: arthritis is taking a toll with my shoulder: at the range the other day, my AK (7.62x39) hurt far more then usual, so I didn't even try with my Mosin Nagant .
Looking to days ahead, my wife and I will both be in a 55 and older housing community with less storage than I have now. She has had bad experiences with recoil, but I want a reliable PCC for both us. I am only considering 9mm due to price, ammo variety/availability and the wife's inexperience with firearms. I don't want an AR - style platform because there are likely new neighbors and friends who would be frightened of the tactical appearance of such a weapon. Similarly a nice .357 lever gun would suit me fine but might be beyond her ken to handle under stress.
So my choices appear to be the Henry Homesteader or the Ruger PCC.
Any other thoughts on this matter?

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I love my CZ Scorpion 9mm. I know you don't want an AR style because of the perception, but what if you cerakote it a fun color? I have a CMMG Banshee cerakoted in bright white. Kids and women like to shoot it vs. a regular AR -- don't find it as "scary." Plus it is only a 22lr. I call it my Stormtrooper gun.

My CZ Scorpion with a folding stock has almost no recoil, by boys have been shooting it since there were 9, its my wife's favorite gun at the range. Going the SBR route is worth it.