https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/fishing/general-rules-regulations/fish-consumption-bans-and-advisories


New: Lake Livingston and Trinity River from US Highway 287 to US 90. Affected waters are in Anderson, Freestone, Houston, Leon, Liberty, Madison, Polk, San Jacinto, Trinity and Walker counties
Chemical of concern:
dioxins
polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs)
Advisories:
Persons should not consume any species of gar from these waters.
Adults should limit consumption of certain fish species as indicated below. Women of childbearing age and children under 12 should not consume the indicated fishes from these waters.
Blue and flathead catfish: no more than one 8-ounce serving per month.
Smallmouth buffalo: no more than one 8-ounce serving per month.
Freshwater drum: no more than two 8-ounce servings per month.
For white bass and striped bass, adults are advised to limit consumption to three 8-ounce servings per month. Women of childbearing age and children under 12 should consume no more than one 8-ounce serving per month.

Wonder what the original source is? Not a lot going on upstream of Livingston.

Too many guns in the lake from boat accidents!

Thought PCB's were banned 50 years ago?

Nothing new. This happens every time there is flooding in the trinity. Dioxins don't go away they just settle in the muck. All the pollution from upstream in the trinity is the cause.

How long does this last? Going up to lake Livingston in July

Just check the same link to determine if you are going to catch and release or keep. You CAN eat some fish in limited amounts.

Iirc, in East Texas, paper mills and pulp mills were the biggest source for many years. As you get closer to the checimal plants and refineries, the sources are much more numerous.

That's not new, been that way for a long time. It should be the entire Trinity river but Livingston is the collection point for all the run off from D/FW and all the crap collected along the way south from smaller cities. They flow down and concentrate at Livingston.

Mostly worry about bottom fish that will have higher contact with settling chemicals, but even white bass and striper are on the list. A once a year fish fry probably isn't bad, but living on the lake and eating fish every week is a bad plan.

ConfidentAg said:

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How long does this last? Going up to lake Livingston in July

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Forever, it's a persistent problem.

On the bright side, those fish are moderately fire resistant.

"Wonder what the original source is? Not a lot going on upstream of Livingston."

Are you being serious or joking?

The Trinity River is one of the most polluted rivers in Texas. Sewage plant discharge, urban and farm runoff, as well as paper mills dioxin pits are all going into the river upstream of Livingston.

aggiedent said:

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"Wonder what the original source is? Not a lot going on upstream of Livingston."

Are you being serious or joking?

The Trinity River is one of the most polluted rivers in Texas. Sewage plant discharge, urban and farm runoff, as well as paper mills dioxin pits are all going into the river upstream of Livingston.

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The entire mainstem Trinity, from the Eagle Mountain dam down to US 90 (downstream of Livingston) is under advisory for both PCB's and dioxins. There is a current risk characterization project for the Trinity from US 90 to the bay. None of the eastern forks in Dallas have been studied.
The dioxins from the papermills are in the Neches Basin.
PCB's and dioxins are banned now but they are so persistent that they will be around a long time.

Mas89 said:

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Iirc, in East Texas, paper mills and pulp mills were the biggest source for many years. As you get closer to the checimal plants and refineries, the sources are much more numerous.

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And why there are some places in the bays where I would never keep a fish. I have seen some nasty stuff growing on the white underside of a flounder over the years.

How is the Navasota river? Fish safe to eat? I understand different river but piggy backing

Have known several friends who fished regularly on the lake now with serious cancer and health issues.

Hell, the paper mills ran barges of chemical waste containing dioxins and pumped it into open pits in the middle of the San Jac river the most famous one is pictured above. It's right next to I-10. You can see it when you drive by.

Who knows wtf is out there that we don't even know about.

There are something like 32 dioxin dump sites just over a levee from West Bay

The Trinity river is the most polluted river in Texas. Years ago all the industries in Dallas dumped their toxic waste in it and floods and droughts set it off. That stuff settled in the riverbed and never goes away.

MAROON said:

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There are something like 32 dioxin dump sites just over a levee from West Bay

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This all flooded during Harvey…..

I used to be a chemist. When we shipped out the chemicals containing dioxins for incineration, it is illegal to burn here in the US because the dioxin doesn't burn off. We shipped them to Canada and they burned them. Dioxins are bad stuff.

ConfidentAg said:

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On the bright side, those fish are moderately fire resistant.

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All fish are highly fire resistant…because they are fish and they live in water.

Curious if anyone on the OB is educated on the regulatory side of this…I am definitely unaware of this until this thread…

If they are not already superfund sites, EPA may have a map of dioxin contaminated waters/locations on their website.

aggiesundevil4 said:

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Curious if anyone on the OB is educated on the regulatory side of this…I am definitely unaware of this until this thread…

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Problem is that there really was no law regarding this before the Clean Water Act that came around in 1972. Lots of damage had already been done and there were so many bad ideas in action already that you couldn't really reverse them, just had to kind of go with them and try to shore them up. Now there are plenty of regulations in place and an entire industry in place to support compliance with those regs. I am not a water guy, but I know there are several on here. If you want more specifics, they would probably know them as deep as you want to go.

Thanks y'all, very helpful

As the Charley Crockett song says, "Trinity River, such a dirty little river..."

Milwaukees Best Light said:

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aggiesundevil4 said:

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Curious if anyone on the OB is educated on the regulatory side of this…I am definitely unaware of this until this thread…

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Problem is that there really was no law regarding this before the Clean Water Act that came around in 1972. Lots of damage had already been done and there were so many bad ideas in action already that you couldn't really reverse them, just had to kind of go with them and try to shore them up. Now there are plenty of regulations in place and an entire industry in place to support compliance with those regs. I am not a water guy, but I know there are several on here. If you want more specifics, they would probably know them as deep as you want to go.

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This is exactly the problem in trying to clean up these rivers from Dioxin and PCB contamination. The chemicals do not break down much (if at all) over time and even if you stop the discharges to the watershed, the chemicals stay around. They settle into the sediment, where benthic organisms ingest them, which are then eaten by fish, which store the chemicals in their fat cells. When the fish dies, it releases the chemicals back into the sediment and the cycles starts all over again. So even if you clean up the water and stop any new pollution from entering, the system will remain contaminated for decades to come because it keeps getting recycled through the fish and other organisms.

aggiedent said:

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"Wonder what the original source is? Not a lot going on upstream of Livingston."

Are you being serious or joking?

The Trinity River is one of the most polluted rivers in Texas. Sewage plant discharge, urban and farm runoff, as well as paper mills dioxin pits are all going into the river upstream of Livingston.

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They should make East Texas a Superfund sight and burn the whole thing down! Just kidding, very beautiful landscape, many lakes and much more quiet than where I live.

DO NOT have to worry about me or family eating Gar, yuck! I know, I know I am missing out, y'all may have ALL of my Gar!

Gar are actually very very good, just a pain in the ass to clean.

montanagriz said:

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How is the Navasota river? Fish safe to eat? I understand different river but piggy backing

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Haven't been any risk characterizations on it.

Outdoorag011 said:

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I used to be a chemist. When we shipped out the chemicals containing dioxins for incineration, it is illegal to burn here in the US because the dioxin doesn't burn off. We shipped them to Canada and they burned them. Dioxins are bad stuff.

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There are incineration services for dioxins/furans. One, Veolia, is in Beaumont.

Yeah we used them a lot. These particular dioxin chemicals were illegal to burn here in the US. We would load them on a truck and that truck drove straight to Canada 4 times a year.

I worked as a hazardous waste chemist for two years. Most dangerous time of my life haha