I am looking into purchasing an RV for family vacations while the kids are at the perfect age (12 and 8) and want your wise opinions on what I should consider when making this purchase.

These are the "features" we would like to have:
- Bunk House layout (required - in previous outings, we always hate having to reconfigure the beds in the morning)
- Separate area for the Rib and me to sleep (we like the idea of a door to the room, but not required). My feet hang off the end of the bed, so I have to take that into consideration also.
- Since we live in Colorado and will be moving to North Dakota (military move), we were thinking about a 4-season RV with better insulation and heated under-belly.
- Truck is rated to tow 9K lbs but would like to stay around 5k (dry weight). I read about the 80/20 rule, so we could potentially go up to 7200 lbs fully loaded.
- I would like to stay around $20k if possible.

We have been to a few dealerships to gage what they have and determine what they are trying to sell, but the salesmen are all over the map. I am turning to my wisest Aggie friends for advice. Is there anything I should consider, review, scrutinize before settling on a RV?

Thanks in advance!

How often will you camp? RV Share has tons of options either to try out different styles or just forgo owning and rent every time you want to go.

I totally get the appeal of having your own camper with your own stuff that you roll out in at a moments notice. But if you're like us and camp 1-2 times a year it's hard to justify ownership. If I owned one I would have to rent it out to make it make sense for me.

Now when my kids are 8-12 like yours that could change. Bunk house is a must have in my opinion.

I bought a used one a few years ago. Fixed what was wrong and we had fun with it for a few years then sold it.

From conversations with other camper/RV folks, I would avoid the dealerships other than browsing for features and layouts. Try to find a solid used one from an individual.

Dealers offer warranties, but service is behind by months. Also, anything 2020 model or newer was rushed through production to meet demand and some parts were substituted due to supply chain issues.

There should be a glut of used ones coming soon with the pending economic downturn as well.

As far as features, we went with the bunkhouse layout. It was great for my girls. I also got one with no slideouts, they're nice but its another thing that can break.

Remember, everything on a camper is built to be light and cheap.

We never used the stove or oven, just the microwave. If I had a custom design I'd go without a kitchen to get more room.

The previous owner removed the fridge and made a storage cabinet. That was nice too. On a short trip, it takes a day or more for the fridge to get all the way cold, so we just had coolers and ice. Extended trips would require a fridge though. The new ones run on propane or electric.

I would have liked an outdoor grill/kitchen. I saw those at the campsites and thought it was a great feature.

Get a battery powered impact if you don't already have one, makes it easy to deploy the jacks.

A cheap outdoor rug helps too, keeps dirt and grit on the outside.

Buy used, not new.

I have a 2017 Rockwood ultralight 2706WS that fits what your wanting.

The good: it has an aluminum structure with steel frame. Makes it strong and light with less possibility that a future leak will ruin it (like the wood frame models). It does have a door to the master, but it is a bit tight in there. I'm 6'2" and don't hang off the queen serta bed. If your over 6'4", then you probably will in all RVs. Overall the quality has been really good besides the notes below. It has torsion axles and I do have an anti sway hitch, pulling it safely at highway speeds hasn't been an issue.

The bad: The shelves sag with any weight on them at all. It's made to be light, but this is an area they should have beefed up. I had to replace the outdoor kitchen shelves because I left a case of bottled water in there and it fell through. Tires. If you buy any RV and it has original tires that are load range D, plan on replacing them with load range E trailer tires. I had two blowouts on open highway with no debris in the road before I figured out the tires were borderline, even with many miles of tread left. I also added a 21 gallon 110v electric tank water heater to mine. The 9 gallon (I think) propane/electric water heater a lot of RVs come with gives you about a 4 minute shower and 20 minutes without hot water. Also, pricing has gone through the roof!!

I agree with the above poster that said to look for a well cared for used one. The first thing I asked when calling around was if the trailer was covered when not in use. A Dealer will lie straight to your face, only a current owner will provide pictures of where it really has lived.

Happy hunting!

Edit to add: I just saw your truck towing comments. Mine has a GVWR of 8132, and a dry weight of 6800.

I highly recommend this video



We walked away from a trailer we had put a deposit down on after learning what we really could tow safely

Thanks gents, I knew I could count on y'all.

The plan is to live in the RV for the 1-4 weeks while our household goods are packed and shipped to our new location (instead of staying in hotels). On our way to ND, we will stop at Mt Rushmore and the Badlands. In the 2 years being in ND, there are some pretty interesting camping areas we would like to visit, but they are only open from May to October (I hear it gets cold up there in the winter).

I am wrestling with the idea of renting an RV instead. I will have to do a little bit of analysis to determine if it is really worth the money to own one. I have stable income, but it will be pretty interesting to see how the economic downturn & higher interest rates impacts discretionary spending.

Thanks a million!

My cost in Katy TX:

Storage (not covered) $100/mo (if covered, cheapest I've seen is $150)

Insurance $250/yr for $10K policy

I also spent about $200 initially buying Damp-Rid and pest repellant devices for storage. Also bought a solar battery charger for $75

Gump 02 said:

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Thanks gents, I knew I could count on y'all.

The plan is to live in the RV for the 1-4 weeks while our household goods are packed and shipped to our new location (instead of staying in hotels). On our way to ND, we will stop at Mt Rushmore and the Badlands. In the 2 years being in ND, there are some pretty interesting camping areas we would like to visit, but they are only open from May to October (I hear it gets cold up there in the winter).

I am wrestling with the idea of renting an RV instead. I will have to do a little bit of analysis to determine if it is really worth the money to own one. I have stable income, but it will be pretty interesting to see how the economic downturn & higher interest rates impacts discretionary spending.

Thanks a million!

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Here's something I would suggest researching considering you said North Dekota. The best times to camp are often the cooler months and well you're now so yankee you're practically Canadian.

Most RVs suck at insulation. Very few are 4 season rated. Those that are typically have the below features.

• Double pane insulated windows
• enclosed underbelly
• Ducted (heated) underbelly
• Tank heater mats
• Bigger or more heater units
• Thicker insulation on all walls, ceiling, and floor. Most are metal studs, but most use tube which means there's no insulation at the studs and is a cold point at every stud or joist. Some use C channel which allows them to run the insulation inside the stud.
• Ability to isolate and winterize all lines
• Heated / insulated lines
• Slide covers

https://www.thecrazyoutdoormama.com/10-best-4-season-travel-trailers-and-rvs-2021-video-tours-pics/

https://rvshare.com/blog/want-to-buy-a-four-season-rv/

I would consider renting a time or two first to decide if you really want to own one.

If you decide you want to owe one, then do the math and decide if you really want to own one.

Good advice here. I'm not sure you can find what you are looking for within the budget you have. New prices have skyrocketed as demand outpaced production. Having said that, the used market is starting to become flooded as people that Covid bought are now selling. You might be able to find something used in great shape now. RV Trader, Facebook marketplace, and PPL are places to look. Hire a professional RV inspector if you buy. Best of luck with your move.

Bought a 34' bumper pull about 3 months ago. Make sure your truck can actually pull what you buy - focus on PAYLOAD and not "tow rating".

Payload will be on the sticker inside the driver door. 7000 lbs will be ~1k of weight on your payload. Assuming you have a half ton so unless you've got the right package or features, you're getting maxed out pretty quick.

You won't be able to get a bunkhouse with a table/couch at less than 30'... these are corner "bunkhouses" and not the separate room in the back

20k budget won't get you much right now and will be pretty old without lots of features - just be wary of that. We bought new because the floorplan was perfect and we have some specifics we required. That being said, I think we got a decent deal on it and bought the extended warranty WITH 24/7 mobile tech repair.

We started our using RVShare and took a rig on a 2 week trip. It was nice but you're really threading the needle on convenience. You've gotta go pick it up or have them deliver a day early, work on their timeline, drop it off by "check-in" time. Clean it, fully stock it with basics (spices, paper towels, etc.) - stuff you could just keep in your own rig. And you just don't know what's going to show up on that thing. We rented one and they showed up with a broken awning "ahh shucks, sorry, can't use it" Wtf, we just paid $2k to rent this thing and a major part of it is broken? Things like that.

Echo what everyone else has said - these things are pieces of junk - even the nicest and newest. They're hand-built (not in a good way) with light and cheap materials - some definitely cheaper than others.

Even still, we're loving it and the kiddo loves it too. We just booked a 16 day trip to colorado next summer and have pulled it down to CS twice for games this fall.

Our main things we wanted/checked the box for us were:

• bigger bathroom/shower. Ours has the pass-thru bathroom so that you can actually have space in there.
• "King" size bed - it's 70x80 so not quite full king but it sleeps nice (I'm 5'10").
• 2 ACs for the summer (you won't need this)
• Bunkhouse
• Table + couch/seats - not just a dinette
• LAMINATED siding with aluminum frame. Not a wooden beast with tin siding.
• Walk-on, rubber, 1 piece roof
• Outdoor kitchen
We went with this model and love it thus far.

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/cougar-half-ton/luxury-travel-trailers/floorplans/30BHS

since you asked about 4 season RVs use, I'll add some anecdotal experience. I rented a 4-seasonrated/"winter package" RV a couple years ago and took it to Moab over Christmas. Temps got above freezing once that week and lows were in the single digit negatives.

No issues at all keeping the interior plenty warm, however water was a different story. Even with all the heaters, insulation, etc. we had something freeze every night. I'm sure given more time and the ability to make modifications (I wasn't going to do anything on a rental) I could have come up with a solution, but for this trip we just gave up on trying to have any kind of running water and used jugs we stored inside.

Payload has a little to do with towing, but is minor in the big picture. It's how much weight can be in your truck (cargo of people, fuel. Etc.)

Just about every spec from engine to 4x4 to bed size impact this.

GVWR or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is the most your truck (curb weight) and cargo (payload) can weight.

Towing Capacity is typically how much weight your truck can tow based on frame and hitch. It's one of 2 important numbers in figuring out a trailer.

GCVWR is the other. Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating is the maximum amount your truck and anything in it and anything it is towing can weigh. To figure out what you can tow. GCVWR - GVWR = max towable weight (trailer).

The lesser of Towing Capacity and max towable weight (GCVWR - GVWR) is the max you can legally tow. The only way to know for sure is to take your truck and trailer to a certified scale to make sure you're under the GCVWR.

For example for my RAM 1500 5.7 hemi eTorque 4x4 crew cab regular bed has the following.

Towing Capacity of 12,750lbs
GCVWR of 17,000lbs and max towing of 11,220lbs

So any trailer and stuff in it would have to be under 11,220lbs to be legal. I may have done more with absolutely no problem, but that's the difference between can tow and law says you can tow.

Uhh. Ok.

You will never be able to tow 12,000 LBs in a trailer because it will have roughly 2000 LBs on your hitch. And will exceed your vehicles payload, and your vehicles GVW.

Not sure you read my post. With towing travel trailers, it's common knowledge in todays trucks (especially 1/2 tons) that will never be able to actually pull that much weight because you will exceed your max weight (vehicle weight PLUS PAYLOAD) way before you get there.

What's your Ram payload max? 1,400 LBs? Add in 2 adults and some bags and you can only have an additional ~900 LBs of more weight… leaves you with a 6000lb trailer (give or take) with a dialed in weight distribution hitch.

Y'all bring up some great points especially about buying one in the first place. Definitely going to reconsider.

Amazing insight!

Last I checked tongue weight is generally 10% of trailer weight. And I'm nor worried about an extra 200 pounds of payload.

10% maybe. Most say to estimate 15%.

To each their own but your vehicle says to "not exceed this weight" which is vehicle weight plus payload.

Just trying to help this guy out when thinking about how big of a trailer he can actually get depending on his truck.

My f150 has over 1800lbs of payload and rated to pull 13,900.

With an 8500lb trailer and 4 adults I'm all but right at my max payload. Nowhere close to my 19,000lb GCWR.

Gump message me would be glad to help with some advice. Have half ton and Rockwood mini lite. Perfect pair…..

We own a motorhome and my advice is to DEFINITELY rent.

1. Cheaper
2. You can always change what you rent because your needs/wants will change.

We are getting good use of ours tailgating A&M football games though. That's been our favorite so far.

AgRyan04 said:

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I highly recommend this video



We walked away from a trailer we had put a deposit down on after learning what we really could tow safely

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I highly recommend this video

Lances are known to be good/great all weather but pricier. I think you should stay away from the cheaper metal exteriors if you want to use in cold weather. Just bought a 30' Minnie Winnie 2022 for $40k in June. Had issues two weeks in due to lines not holding pressure so they leaked. Repairs have been nightmares and still waiting on the trailer back after dropping off in august. I'd look for used for the budget and try to find the right lightly used trailer seller.

I'd also highly suggest doing lithium battery with solar to keep the fridge going while traveling. With a family that was huge for me compared to previous trailers.

I'd also go older past 2020 as quality went way down due to RV popularity. I think you'll likely get a better trailer at a lower price.

Good luck and Have Fun!

Definitely rent one to see how you like it and if you love it then buy one that fits your needs, not your truck. Upgrade the truck if need be. I bought a trailer to fit my half ton then bought a 3/4 ton and then bought a 5th wheel. Thankfully this was just as Covid was starting so I was able to sell the truck and trailer for a profit. Something that has come and gone.

Buy used from an individual. They will almost always sell you everything you need with the trailer which adds up quick. They're less likely to lie to you and will explain the nuances.

We sold our 5th wheel last year and the new owner still calls me every now and then for advice.

We took our kids to California one summer and then to the Smokey mountains the next. With tons of stops along the way.

Our favorite is Gulf Shores, Grand Canyon and College Station. We had the entire tennis court parking lot to ourselves one weekend in the Spring. Walked to a couple of softball games and roamed campus. Kids had a blast.

Gump 02 said:

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Y'all bring up some great points especially about buying one in the first place. Definitely going to reconsider.

Amazing insight!

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We just purchased our third trailer. First was a used pop up, kids were 2/3. It was great for 2 seasons.. then it was time to upgrade, so we bought a new bunkhouse, 33' overall length, 6500lbs, slideout, bedroom, etc. end of 2020 used it for that season through end of 2021, realized it was too big/heavy/long and market was sellers', so we sold it and waited a year for market to cool off before buying this one.

Both of those we sold for what we paid (even the new one we bought). Kids are now 7/8, so we still wanted bunkhouse, but just not so big.

Now we have this;



We realized we are weekend warriors and didn't need 30' of living space for 2-3 nights.

This thing tows like a dream compared to our last one, just over 4klbs and it's 8' shorter, yet it still has everything the other one did - fullsize bunks, bathroom, full kitchen, queen bed, outdoor kitchen, pass through storage.

The key is the Murphy bed. Might not be feasible if you are living in it, but it literally takes 5 seconds to pop up or down.. pillows/sheets stay on it. It's a one piece, non-foldable mattress, and is a residential queen. We have no door, but have privacy curtains. Don't let a door fool you soundwise; most RV doors have a 2" gap at bottom and top.


You have 3 components to the monthly cost outside of loan (which will eventually be $0, and you will recoup some if sold) and maintenance -

Insurance (we are $400/yr in CO for ~$20k value)
Storage (might be free if on your property, but could be $50 on the low end to $200+)
Registration (in CO, that's $350.. our new one was $900)

Our new trailer, even after we paid it off, would have been pushing $300 a month for storage/ins/reg. That's a lot of money that can pay for cabins or renting an RV. It was another big reason why we sold. Now our camper, after paying it off, will be $120 /month. Much more manageable and justifiable.

Overall suggestions;
Absolutely buy used. The market demand is falling off fast (trailer registrations were down 25% across the US this year over last year for aug and sept)
The days of buying new and selling for same cost were short lived, and are over.
Try renting a few configurations first. See how it pulls, see what you like and don't like.
It's really hard to know what you want until you have or don't have it. We are on our third and feel it's finally a 90% fit.

You say your kids are perfect age.. I'd say you are about 5 years late! When your 12 year old is 16 he may not want to be hanging with parents on weekends.. that isn't far away.
I think the perfect range is 6ish to probably early teens.

no 45" tv or reclining sofa that massages? what the hell kind of camping are you doing here?!

What model is that? That in a true 4 season is exactly what we're looking for.

AgLA06 said:

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What model is that? That in a true 4 season is exactly what we're looking for.

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Ours is 4 season, it has a fully enclosed, heated and insulated underbelly. The tank dump seals are inside the underbelly as well.
Manufacturer calls it 'extended season', as they don't want some Coloradan to go camping in the mountains at minus 30 and have the pipes burst.

Ours is a 2019 keystone passport 239ml.
The current model is a 219bhwe. Overall the same, but they added a back bike/cargo door with a flip up bottom bunk. That in turn moved the water heater over which in turn reduced the outdoor kitchen size; they removed the outdoor sink to accommodate. Other than that, a few cabinet/drawer changes inside.

But on the plus side, the newer model has the 'hookup station' inside the pass through, as well as electric stabilizers (which I totally plan to add).
Wish I had the hookup station as well..



Also note, stock this model come with your typical dinette. Ours had been modified to the bar/countertop style, which suits us much better than a dinette, and it forces the kids to sleep in their bunks!

62strat said:

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AgLA06 said:

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What model is that? That in a true 4 season is exactly what we're looking for.

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Ours is 4 season, it's fully enclosed and insulated underneath, and the furnace has a duct that blows warm air into the cavity to heat the space where the tanks/water lines are. The tank dump seals are inside the space as well.
Manufacturer calls it 'extended season', as they don't want some Coloradan to go camping in the mountains at minus 30 and have the pipes burst.

Ours is a 2019 keystone passport 239ml.
The current model is a 219bhwe. Overall the same, but they added a back bike/cargo door with a flip up bottom bunk. That in turn moved the water heater over which in turn reduced the outdoor kitchen size; they removed the outdoor sink to accommodate. Other than that, a few cabinet/drawer changes inside.

But on the plus side, the newer model has the 'hookup station' inside the pass through, as well as electric stabilizers (which I totally plan to add).
Wish I had the hookup station as well..



Also note, stock this model come with your typical dinette. Ours had been modified to the bar/countertop style, which suits us much better than a dinette, and it forces the kids to sleep in their bunks!

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Really like that bar/dinette. The booth/table is terrible IMO

Yesterday said:

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Really like that bar/dinette. The booth/table is terrible IMO

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I totally agree. I've actually never seen this modification done, but it makes so much more sense. More space, more cabinets (4 full size kitchen cabs underneath there)
Since the picture, we've changed the 4 stools to two 36" wide ottoman bench type pieces that have a hinged lid for storage.

Then they slide over easily for a foot rest when sitting on couch.

I've also replaced that little white flip up counter extender to a full depth and a bit wider butcher block flip up to match the bar, and actually be usable. That stock flip has enough room for a drink at most.

Aside from dinette vs. bar, one thing we had on our absolutely must have list was the dinette on the camp side. Our last was the more common dinette on hook up side, where you are always looking at your neighbors. I don't know why it's the minority to have a large picture window/seating on YOUR camp side to see YOUR stuff.

Yesterday said:

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62strat said:

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AgLA06 said:

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What model is that? That in a true 4 season is exactly what we're looking for.

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Ours is 4 season, it's fully enclosed and insulated underneath, and the furnace has a duct that blows warm air into the cavity to heat the space where the tanks/water lines are. The tank dump seals are inside the space as well.
Manufacturer calls it 'extended season', as they don't want some Coloradan to go camping in the mountains at minus 30 and have the pipes burst.

Ours is a 2019 keystone passport 239ml.
The current model is a 219bhwe. Overall the same, but they added a back bike/cargo door with a flip up bottom bunk. That in turn moved the water heater over which in turn reduced the outdoor kitchen size; they removed the outdoor sink to accommodate. Other than that, a few cabinet/drawer changes inside.

But on the plus side, the newer model has the 'hookup station' inside the pass through, as well as electric stabilizers (which I totally plan to add).
Wish I had the hookup station as well..



Also note, stock this model come with your typical dinette. Ours had been modified to the bar/countertop style, which suits us much better than a dinette, and it forces the kids to sleep in their bunks!

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Really like that bar/dinette. The booth/table is terrible IMO

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Agree about the modification. That, the bunks, outdoor kitchen, and the murphy bed were what caught my attention. Unfortunately I'm that guy who wants to be able to use it to hunt elk in bitter cold instead of paying to store it all winter. So need a true 4 season. Not many options for that and they're expensive.

I rent one 2-3 times a year, I get the benefit of "having one", without the hassle of storing, insuring, maintaining and paying for a depreciable asset. I can also go bigger or smaller depending on what kind of a trip I am planning.

DVM

DVM97 said:

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I rent one 2-3 times a year, I get the benefit of "having one", without the hassle of storing, insuring, maintaining and paying for a depreciable asset. I can also go bigger or smaller depending on what kind of a trip I am planning.

DVM

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I don't think anyone on here would suggest buying one to use it 2-3 times a year.

When you buy one, you are paying for the convenience of having all your stuff in the unit as well as to have it not be full of other people's germs, dog hair, and smells, and most likely, you are using it 8-10 or more times a year.

I also think "times per year" can change.

A few weekend or 3 day trips? definitely rent one.

Taking it on a 2 week trip? now you're talking a few $kk to rent one. Do that a few times and buying one makes sense.

Also, for renting them... I disliked the convenience of "pickup" and checkin times. You basically ended having to rent it for an extra day on the front end and back end to unload/load and make your timing work.

For example, renting one for a long weekend trip? (plan on pulling out Friday AM or something)... you're going to have to rent it for Thursday too... plan on getting home late Sunday? guess what, you're going to have to rent it from Sunday night too to unpack and get it back to an owner.

So you're staying in it 2 nights (Fri and Sat) but renting for 4... Any decent rig on RV share, a 4 night rental is going to run you almost $800 with taxes and what not.

It adds up quick.

Might want to look at the models from Northwood Mfg out of Oregon. We have had several, and they are designed for 4 seasons...etc. We live in the mountains, and have often had these trailers well below zero in the winter with no freezing issues. If you are in Co and headed further north, they are an option that you should consider. Most used ones are in good shape if you can find them. Currently own an Arctic Fox TT and will be buying a 5th wheel in the next couple of years.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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I also think "times per year" can change.

A few weekend or 3 day trips? definitely rent one.

Taking it on a 2 week trip? now you're talking a few $kk to rent one. Do that a few times and buying one makes sense.

Also, for renting them... I disliked the convenience of "pickup" and checkin times. You basically ended having to rent it for an extra day on the front end and back end to unload/load and make your timing work.

For example, renting one for a long weekend trip? (plan on pulling out Friday AM or something)... you're going to have to rent it for Thursday too... plan on getting home late Sunday? guess what, you're going to have to rent it from Sunday night too to unpack and get it back to an owner.

So you're staying in it 2 nights (Fri and Sat) but renting for 4... Any decent rig on RV share, a 4 night rental is going to run you almost $800 with taxes and what not.

It adds up quick.

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This is why we ended up buying. We did a couple of two week trips and that would have paid for half the rig. Thankfully when it was time for us to hang it up it was 2021 and the RV market was stupid.