Idk how to search this forum but I'm certain this has been discussed before. I'm looking at buying a place in Burnett County that has a shallow two acre pond that's gone dry. It has a nice dam (about five feet deep there) but all the water is gone. I'd like to hire a dozer and dig it out as much as the limestone will allow. Then I'd like to line it with something that will allow fish to thrive. There's an existing well nearby that puts out about 15 gallons per minute that I could put on a solar pump and let it run all day to offset the evaporation. I'd like some ideas how to create a permanent water solution. Tia

Liner then soil.

Hope you hate money.

Bentonite might be a good option on that size.

Is it low due to lack of rain or water leaking out? Important question.

You'll need clay to hold the water in if its leaking out through the ground. You could bring in clay and have a dozer operator spread it to line the pond. Disc in bentonite to existing soil. Hdpe liner as someone else mentioned above.

Digging the pond out may help or hurt you depending on whats below the current bottom of the pond. If you're having trouble holding water then you probably don't have good clay there.

RCR06 said:

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Is it low due to lack of rain or water leaking out? Important question.

You'll need clay to hold the water in if its leaking out through the ground. You could bring in clay and have a dozer operator spread it to line the pond. Disc in bentonite to existing soil. Hope liner as someone else mentioned above.

Digging the pond out may help or hurt you depending on whats below the current bottom of the pond. If you're having trouble holding water then you probably don't have good clay there.

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I believe it just evaporated out during this drought. Any chance you know of any companies near Marble Falls that could come out and look?

Does it have alot of cedars nearby?

C ROC N said:

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Does it have alot of cedars nearby?

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Mine doesn't hold water to well and there are cedars nearby.

Serious question: What do cedars have to do with the pond holding water?

Thanks

We had a contractor come out that new his business. First they did test cores to see how deep the clay was. It was around 6 ft. They dug down to it, we got a turd floater 2 weeks later and pond has held water since. I did cheat though and had a 2.5 in line run from pump house to pond.
A friend of mine had to use bentonite in bottom of pond, spread and then start feeding round bales on top of that. The last time we talked about his pond it's still holding water.

I think most assumed the water had leaked through the ground somehow. Most of the options reccommnded were to keep that from happening. Not sure of anyone in that area that does pond work, but if it were me I'd fill it up from the well and see what happens. If you decide to dig it out more you'll want to know how far the clay layer goes down.

Blue Bell Ag said:

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C ROC N said:

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Does it have alot of cedars nearby?

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Mine doesn't hold water to well and there are cedars nearby.

Serious question: What do cedars have to do with the pond holding water?

Thanks

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Cedars "drink" a lot of water.

RCR06 said:

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Blue Bell Ag said:

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C ROC N said:

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Does it have alot of cedars nearby?

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Mine doesn't hold water to well and there are cedars nearby.

Serious question: What do cedars have to do with the pond holding water?

Thanks

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Cedars "drink" a lot of water.

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I am an Aquatic Science teacher and we helped with a water conservation project that cleared out over 200 acres of cedars near a previous running creek. The creek ran 10 years prior. After clearing the cedars, water started running again shortly after. Cedars are the reason the state of TX ran a program to reestablish water in certain areas. Ranchers were paid to clear cedars.

Try to find out if it has a history of going dry or if this is a one time event due to this year's drought.

We have several tanks that have gone dry this year, for maybe the only time in the last 40+ years. Hard to say they need help holding water…they just need more water.

Shoefly! said:

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We had a contractor come out that new his business. First they did test cores to see how deep the clay was. It was around 6 ft. They dug down to it, we got a turd floater 2 weeks later and pond has held water since. I did cheat though and had a 2.5 in line run from pump house to pond.
A friend of mine had to use bentonite in bottom of pond, spread and then start feeding round bales on top of that. The last time we talked about his pond it's still holding water.

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This is a great idea. I have a 97 HP skid with a 9" post
hole digger attachment. I can go out there and drill some core samples myself.

Call your local USDA-NRCS office in Burnett.

C ROC N said:

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RCR06 said:

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Cedars "drink" a lot of water.

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I am an Aquatic Science teacher and we helped with a water conservation project that cleared out over 200 acres of cedars near a previous running creek. The creek ran 10 years prior. After clearing the cedars, water started running again shortly after. Cedars are the reason the state of TX ran a program to reestablish water in certain areas. Ranchers were paid to clear cedars.

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Be careful in Travis Kounty. You can go to jail for cutting down a cedar tree.

If there are cattle on the place, feed hay in the bottom of the tank all winter. Let the cattle tromp it down in the mud. Worked on our tank that didn't hold water for 40 years. Even in this drought it's still 2/3 full.

Call your Soil Conservation Service Agent for that County, they might do it or know a service that will. A 9 in hole just adds to the problem if you get past the clay bedpan. Their drills are much smaller. Some counties provide the service for a minimal fee. Then you will know exactly where your bedpan lies underneath. Pond liner would be the easiest, but can get expensive.

Shoefly! said:

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Call your Soil Conservation Service Agent for that County, they might do it or know a service that will. A 9 in hole just adds to the problem if you get past the clay bedpan. Their drills are much smaller. Some counties provide the service for a minimal fee. Then you will know exactly where your bedpan lies underneath. Pond liner would be the easiest, but can get expensive.

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Thanks Shoefly, I'll definitely do that.

HumbleAg04 said:

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Liner then soil.

Hope you hate money.

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That's what I did in Blanco County. 120K. It holds water now and I'm happy about it. I know the soil in Burnet county is terrible also so you really need to seal it and 5 feet deep is way too shallow. You need to be able to store the occasional downpours you will get. Some interesting thoughts on the well at 15 gallon per minute. 1 acre foot of water is about 325,000 gallons of water. If you could pump 15 gpm that's 900 gallons an hour or 9000 gallons over ten hours assuming sunshine. One inch over an acre is 27,000 gallons. So you'd need three days to get 1/2 inch of water over 2 acres. If it's leaking it will never work.

It's Burnet, dern it, can't you learn it?

chris1515 said:

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Try to find out if it has a history of going dry or if this is a one time event due to this year's drought.

We have several tanks that have gone dry this year, for maybe the only time in the last 40+ years. Hard to say they need help holding water…they just need more water.

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Google Earth shows older satellite photos which might give you some info as to whether there has been water there in the past.

Is it because they were cedars that were removed, or because there are now fewer shrubs and trees in general on the land of any type, in total? Need to isolate many variables or it is just an interesting anecdote.

docb said:

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HumbleAg04 said:

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Liner then soil.

Hope you hate money.

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That's what I did in Blanco County. 120K. It holds water now and I'm happy about it. I know the soil in Burnet county is terrible also so you really need to seal it and 5 feet deep is way too shallow. You need to be able to store the occasional downpours you will get. Some interesting thoughts on the well at 15 gallon per minute. 1 acre foot of water is about 325,000 gallons of water. If you could pump 15 gpm that's 900 gallons an hour or 9000 gallons over ten hours assuming sunshine. One inch over an acre is 27,000 gallons. So you'd need three days to get 1/2 inch of water over 2 acres. If it's leaking it will never work.

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$120,000!? Holy cow. How many acres was the pond? Did you start from scratch or enlarge an existing pond? Can you PM the contractor to me if you recommend him? Obviously 15 GPM isn't going to do sheet.

2 acre pond. I went through some other headaches with another contractor first that did not work. I should have trusted my gut with that guy because I just wasn't sold on his idea even though he assured me it would work. I also tried some bentonite to no avail. Ended up consulting a man named Mike Otto who suggested a liner. I'm pretty sure you can find his contact info on pondboss.com The dirt contractor I used was Doyle Moore out of Blanco. 512-962-2257. And the liner was a company called TLJ lining 214-601-4036. The TLJ guy didn't speak the best English but they did a good job. Pondboss forum has a lot of good info. Part of my cost was I milled out a lot of limestone to get the depth I wanted. Hope this helps. Good luck.

docb said:

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2 acre pond. I went through some other headaches with another contractor first that did not work. I should have trusted my gut with that guy because I just wasn't sold on his idea even though he assured me it would work. I also tried some bentonite to no avail. Ended up consulting a man named Mike Otto who suggested a liner. I'm pretty sure you can find his contact info on pondboss.com The dirt contractor I used was Doyle Moore out of Blanco. 512-962-2257. And the liner was a company called TLJ lining 214-601-4036. The TLJ guy didn't speak the best English but they did a good job. Pondboss forum has a lot of good info. Part of my cost was I milled out a lot of limestone to get the depth I wanted. Hope this helps. Good luck.

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Great pic! Awesome info. Gotta love TexAgs outdoors. Thanks for posting this docb. Last 3 questions- what is the average depth you were able to get down to? How long did it take? I assume you hired a large excavator to do most the work, but what did you do with the material that you removed?

It took about a month? I had to coordinate the dirt contractor with the lining company schedule as they were not local. I think the deepest area of my pond is about 14 feet deep. The area near the inflow tapers up to about 6 feet deep. The pond was already there so I just had to rework it. I used all the limestone that was milled out of the bottom for road material on the ranch. Once the liner was installed I covered it up with about a foot of dirt. I had another pond dug in the back of my property to get the material to cover the liner. That back pond does not hold water very well even though there seemed to be a decent amount of clay there. The hill country is just tough to get ponds to hold without a lot of work.

A few liner photos

In that area you will need a liner as shown in the pictures. Bentonite is a patch and to line a lake completely with it will cost you dearly! The water is leaching out through the limestone that you mentioned. That and all the cracks and fissures will make it necessary to use the laydown liner. Clay may work, but you may not have a good amount of good quality clay to use. Part of being in that area.

One last thought...don't use the company that is stupid enough to drive an ATV on the liner.

That ATV didn't hurt anything at all. Have you ever actually walked on a liner?

The atv appears to be on a felt type liner not hdpe.

That is exactly what it is on. Even so I don't think the ATV would hurt the liner.

Oh I agree completely. Much less chance of issues being on felt rather than the hdpe, thats all I was trying to say.

I've been on a few liner jobs and I'm trying to remember if they drove their atv on the hdpe liner. I don't think they did. However, we had a lot of QA oversight as it was a landfill closureat a refinery. They would be situated like what is in the picture parked next to the leading edge of the hdpe liner usually with their generator in the back of the atv. I don't think driving the atv on the hdpe liner would be a big deal, probably wouldn't want them to turn on it though.

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Is it because they were cedars that were removed, or because there are now fewer shrubs and trees in general on the land of any type, in total? Need to isolate many variables or it is just an interesting anecdote.

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Cedars don't require any more or less water than live oaks, they probably use less on an individual basis (due to the xeric nature of their leaves) when fully grown.

The problem is that cedars grow thick & prevent a high percentage of rainwater from infiltrating the ground. Rain gets caught up on leaves, the bark & heavy leaf litter and evaporates rather than going down into the water table. Live Oaks allow more water to reach the ground, natural grasses most of all.

docb said:

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HumbleAg04 said:

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Liner then soil.

Hope you hate money.

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That's what I did in Blanco County. 120K. It holds water now and I'm happy about it. I know the soil in Burnet county is terrible also so you really need to seal it and 5 feet deep is way too shallow. You need to be able to store the occasional downpours you will get. Some interesting thoughts on the well at 15 gallon per minute. 1 acre foot of water is about 325,000 gallons of water. If you could pump 15 gpm that's 900 gallons an hour or 9000 gallons over ten hours assuming sunshine. One inch over an acre is 27,000 gallons. So you'd need three days to get 1/2 inch of water over 2 acres. If it's leaking it will never work.

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Don't forget evaporation loss.

Its one thing to get a pond to hold water when always wet, its a whole other issue if it goes dry. HDPE is really the only way to go unless you have consistent supply of water to keep full during drought conditions.

Absolutely. And it's more than you would think. Even with the liner I'm down about 4.5 feet right now. We need some rain bad. I have a 1 inch poly pipe that I can run my well into the pond if I need to but I try not to do that too much.