We had a thread like this a couple years ago, then I got busy with life (read: kids). Have a little more free time again, so back at in and figured I would share the drills I'm focusing on monthly if yall want to join in. Based on the survey I did in the other thread, I will try to accommodate range limitations when I can.

The goal of the thread: Self improvement. Feel free to share pictures of your target, video of you shooting the drill, things you learned, what you failed at, what you did well at.

SEPTEMBER 2022 DRILL

The Test by Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers

Target: NRA B8 (printable B8)

Classic Set up: 10 yards, 10 second par time on timer, 10 rounds in gun.

Procedure: Starting at low ready (gun pointed at ground 3 yards or so in front of you), at the buzzer fire 10 rounds at the target. This month we will be using Vickers scoring: Every shot on white (8 or 7 ring) adds a1 second penalty to your time, a shot outside the target add 3 seconds. Anything over 10 seconds (time+penalties) is a fail.

Modifiers: Limited capacity. If you're shooting this drill using a time machine from the 1930s, adjust par time for capacity. 6 second par time for a 6 shot revolver, or 8 seconds for a 1911 that only holds 8. Difficulty modifiers: if you cannot pass the test at 10 yards, change distance to something like 7 yards. Move back as you can with practice. If you are competent at drawing a loaded gun from concealment, shoot the drill with your carry gun from your usual carry holster. If you still smoke it at 10 yards from concealment (good job), move back to 12 or 15 yards. You get the idea.

I probably won't shoot this until a couple weeks from now but I'll share video/pictures when I do. Hope yall get something out of this one! Feel free to ask questions if you have them.

In the past I've sent people little stuff like Mora Knives etc for participating. If you need incentive to jump in, consider it highly likely I will do so again......

Lets shred some fudd targets

Guess I'll be the first to post results. Took 2 guns out and shot 2 strings from each.
STI Eagle 9mm from low ready
1st run: 8.51 + 1 (high 8 ring) = 9.51
2nd run: 8.04 clean

P365XL from concealment
1st run: 7.68 +3 (low 8 ring) = 10.68 FAIL
2nd run: 9.90 +1 = 10.90 FAIL

Went too fast on the first run with the 365. Slowed down a lot for the 2nd, but still dropped one.

Thanks for putting out the drill. May have to try again tomorrow.

Edit to link to video

I may just have to participate this time 'round.

In the past, we were shooting 3-5 matches per month and lacked the time, motivation or interest.

Now I am only shooting 3-5 matches per month, but am interested

What are you using for a timer? I think I recall from another thread that you were in central Texas somewhere. If so, where do you shoot?

This sucks! I'm 4 weeks post right rotator cuff surgery. Another 1-2 weeks in an immobilizer then another couple of weeks in a sling. No weight bearing for the right arm.

Who knows when I'll be able to shoot right handed.

And, frankly, the thought of a rifle butt on my shoulder scares the *iss out of me.

I'll have to give this one a try. Is it cheating if I use my new PCC?

Is this your personal setup? If so, wow … congrats. You're winning life.

Outstanding! Like someone else said, love your range too.

HumpitPuryear said:

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What are you using for a timer? I think I recall from another thread that you were in central Texas somewhere. If so, where do you shoot?

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I use a CED7000. I've also used a Pocket Pro 2 in the past, and the pact club timer is another good option.

I'm in Bell County and typically shoot at Temple Gun Club where I'm a member.

If anyone is in the area and doesn't have a timer, they're welcome to come shoot with me when I go, but that's usually going to be Tuesdays or Thursdays this fall.

That sounds less than fun. Heal up man, hopefully I'll keep this going for a while.

HUEY04 said:

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I'll have to give this one a try. Is it cheating if I use my new PCC?

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If you can't put 10 rounds in the black from 10 yards with a PCC in that time frame...well....

Part of the reason I picked this drill is its deceptive difficulty.

10 rounds in 10 seconds sounds easy. And it can be, if all of your fundamental skills (grip, sight picture, throttle control, trigger control) are well practiced and honed. But the target is small enough and the range is long enough that even very small errors in your fundamentals will absolutely cause failures on this drill.

There are also two different ways of scoring this drill, and I deliberately picked Vickers scoring because I wanted a "pass/fail" to use as a benchmark/skill check.

You also can't shoot fast enough with bad hits to still pass, so Vickers scoring forces you to find exactly what kind of sight picture you need to get for each shot, which is why this is a valuable drill. If you go for a perfect sight picture every shot, you will bust the par time. If you just try to "shoot fast" and don't get some kind of decent sight picture, you will absolutely land shots outside the black and bust par time with penalties.

If you've never shot this drill before, you're going to finish the first time in 6-7 seconds with a lot of hits outside the black. My advice if you're struggling with the drill but too stubborn to move closer is to focus on sight picture and getting hits, even if you blow par time. Had an instructor once tell me "if a drill has a set par time, use the entire par time to make the most accurate hits you can" and it's great advice for The Test.

Yes, the range is in the backyard. Convenient for sure and motivation to shoot more often.

I also have a CED7000 and the Pact II timers. Both have been great. I've had the Pact for probably 15-20 years. Definitely a good item to have in your range bag.

One more rambling paragraph: this is a great way to see the benefits of dryfire.

Go shoot this drill cold (very first shooting of the day) at the range. Record your time and a picture of your target. Put a fresh B8 up in your garage and spend 5 minutes every day between that range trip and your next one this month dry firing this drill on a timer. Be honest with yourself about the quality of your sight picture and trigger press while dry firing. If you're feeling really hippie like me, visualize shooting the drill before dryfiring it too.

After at least a week of good dry fire practice, go back out and shoot the drill cold again.

You may be surprised with the results.

BenderRodriguez said:

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But the target is small enough

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This is definitely true. I typically just put up a standard USPSA target and "try to keep everything in the A Zone". A 5.5" circle is MUCH less forgiving than a 6"x11" rectangle. Improper execution of the fundamentals is quickly evident on the B8 target.

jrb2019 said:

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BenderRodriguez said:

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But the target is small enough

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This is definitely true. I typically just put up a standard USPSA target and "try to keep everything in the A Zone". A 5.5" circle is MUCH less forgiving than a 6"x11" rectangle. Improper execution of the fundamentals is quickly evident on the B8 target.

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A zone is a fantastic general practice target, it's my favorite too.

B8 is for when I want to feel bad about myself.

I have a few other drills in mind for later months. Everything from 3x5 index cards to full size uspsa targets, from 3 yards to 25 or more. Trying to introduce stuff people may not see if they're not big into competition or classes that might help the average CHL holder.

10 seconds is a LONG time.

I tried it today. Two things are revealed in this drill, both of which I am painfully aware: I am slow, and can't use iron sights.

I shot it with three different guns: two M&P's; one a CORE with RMR, the other with milled slide and Leupold Deltapoint, and a Shield with irons.
How I did:

M&P with RMR low ready 8.37 + 1 penalty = 9.37


M&P with RMR drawn from duty holster 8.23 + 2 penalties = 10.23 (fail)


M&P Deltapoint Low ready 7.34 + 2 penalties = 9.34


Shield drawn from concealment 9.69 + 5 = 14.69 (fail)


I somehow managed not to get a pic of the Shield @ low ready, not write down time, but it was also a failing score.

Timer question. My best location to run these is going to be a public outdoor range, is there a timer that can differentiate my shots from the guy next to me? And when I say next to me I mean within brass catching closeness. The other potential problem are the morons that clog the pistol range, especially the 7 yard 9ne with their loud AR and other rifles. Can a timer pick out the right shots?

I shot this drill today at lunch with both my CZ Tactical Sports and my Glock 34 with Trijicon SRO. It reinforced what I already know, I shoot the CZ with iron sights much better than the G34 with red-dot (I also shoot the CZ in matches 10 times more often than the G34).

First run with the CZ TSO: 8.55
I had 3 on the left edge but they all stayed in the black



Second run with the CZ TSO: 8.25 +1 = 9.25
Worked on a better straight back trigger press, overall group was more centered but missed one high left by just a hair:



Third run with the CZ TSO trying to push the pace just a bit: 7.84 + 2 = 9.84 seconds
The first couple shots were a bit wild trying to shoot too fast before I slowed it back down:



Fourth run, this time with the G34 and red dot. 9.53 +2 = 11.52 FAIL
I need more practice with this setup, the glock just doesn't settle back to natural point of aim for me like the CZ, I have to move it back to center before each shot:

Dang, now I *need* a shot timer.

I'm using a CED 7000, it is a very useful training aid that can tell you a lot. This drill just reminded me that I need to make better use of the par time feature instead of just reviewing times and splits.

Went back out to try this again. Two runs with a 365XL from concealment. First run was 7.18 +2 (both 8s)= 9.18. Second run 8.54 clean. Slowing my splits just a little made the difference.

Side note, I was surprised at how slow my draw was on both runs. Average was around 2.3 sec. I moved over to an 8" plate to compare and draw time dropped to 1.5-1.7 range. Interesting to see the effect by reducing to a 5.5" scoreable target. I can also say that I feel I had to see a better sight picture on the paper vs the plate. Or to put it another way, I felt my sights had to almost be on the X for the first shot vs just on the plate. Would be interesting to see any difference on a 5.5" plate.

jrb2019 said:

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I can also say that I feel I had to see a better sight picture on the paper vs the plate. Or to put it another way, I felt my sights had to almost be on the X for the first shot vs just on the plate. Would be interesting to see any difference on a 5.5" plate.

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Yep, different size targets and different ranges (and with different time requirements) need a different sight picture. This is why I went with this drill on this target for our first one.

IMO, one of the biggest problems with the way most people shoot pistols (static 7-15 yard range, static huge B27 size target) is that your average CHL guy isn't really aware of what sight picture he needs given different target sizes, distances, and par times.

One of my goals here is to push people beyond what they're used to and comfortable doing with a pistol to see what they're capable of with one, should the need arise.

its probably going to be an issue if you're shoulder to shoulder with someone else on a line.

Might be able to drop sensitivity settings enough to make it work, but I'm not sure.

With my CED 7000 timer I drop the sensitivity level to 1 at an indoor range and it usually only picks up my shots unless someone is right next to me and shooting a compensated or magnum caliber

HUEY04 said:

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With my CED 7000 timer I drop the sensitivity level to 1 at an indoor range and it usually only picks up my shots unless someone is right next to me and shooting a compensated or magnum caliber

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Good info, thanks.

I've been spoiled to have the range access I do these days. No concerns about sharing a line with anyone so it isn't something I've had to deal with since getting my CED.

In the survey results quite a few people mentioned possibly being interested in rifle drills as well. I tested a new to me drill (trying to shake some rifle shooting cobwebs off) yesterday to see if it might be a good one for a monthly drill.

The drill:

Ran it twice, once with an AK and once with a newer AR build I'm still in the process of shaking out.





Total AK run time: 50.10 seconds
Total AR run time: 56.77 seconds

I ran it with the AK first. The AK run had 23 A zone hits, 14 Cs, 10 Ds and 3 misses. Only 129 points out of a possible 250 and a really bad hit factor of 2.53.

So I worked really hard on getting better hits with the AR run. (I'm most proud of the 2A to the 3x5 headbox from 25 meters on the last shots of the headbox/sprint/headbox portion of the COF). 39 As, 8 Cs, 2 Ds, 1 mike. 209 points out of 250, hit factor of 3.68, miles ahead of my AK run and only 6 seconds slower.

I need to shoot more rifle stuff in general, it's one of those things I haven't put the work into like I should yet. Would this drill interest yall for October? I have another one with similar movement/range distances that can be done with either a pistol or rifle that might make it more accessible to people if people want more pistol stuff instead.

I tried this months drill with my carry lw commander and Glock 19 with a dot.

Cold commander from concealed. 7.09 with 3 just outside 9 zone. 8 shots Fail.

Cold 19 from concealed. 9.14 with one outside the pay zone. 10 shots. Fail.

Second round commander. 7.14 clean.

Second round 19. 8.19 clean.

Need to work on cold Maybe a little dry fire practice.

I caught the post-vax Bell's Palsy back in January that really affected my left eye and ability to shoot. Haven't shot any this year. I just started regaining motion on the left side of my face last month.

Gave it a shot w/my EDC VP9 and Holosun RDS. First attempt was clean:



Tried to pick up the pace slightly on the 2nd attempt, but it wasn't clean. I could probably shave .5 seconds off if I weren't taking so much time to find the dot. I see I need to dryfire much more to compensate for my broken eye. Also need to get into an RDS class with Jedi.

I don't count line breaks so I'm calling this 6.91+2=8.91



I shot some dot torture at 7yds after this. That wasn't pretty.

Thanks all on the timer question responses. Will have to try and find a day that the range is not so crowded. Apparently tu games are a good time to go. Not surprised given I am in Lockhart.

Gave the 50 rd carbine drill a try today. Ran it twice about 5 hours apart. Interestingly, times were almost identical 42.66 & 43.08. Points very close too; 167 and 172 (both with a miss). Hit factors 3.915 and 3.993. Here's my second run. I don't do nearly enough with the rifle either.



I also ran the 50 rd pistol course from T Rex but didn't space them out over time. Second run was 10 percent faster than the first cold run....

I'm busy enough getting ready for my R&G in two weeks that I haven't picked an october drill so lets make the 50 round trex drill the official October drill.



I know this one is pretty involved, requires a big range, a timer and a lot of freedom that some ranges dont have so if folks want to pick a drill they can do at their range, feel free to post up, would love to see whatever you're working on improving this month.

I also noticed our runs illustrate the usefulness of Hit Factor scoring pretty well. You smoked me on time, but I made more accurate hits, so on HF our runs were pretty similar: 3.9 vs 3.7.

Fast and accurate is always the goal, and getting hIgher HF requires both which is awesome.

Ran this last week with the MP5 clone and all my run and gun gear (chest rig, camelbak, etc).

47.10 total time, 211 points, hit factor of 4.12. 35 As 13Cs 2Ms.

Could have been even better. BUT. I didn't make sure I had 12 rounds in the gun before the final string (4 on each target while moving). I had 11. So there's an extra miss in there that should have been a hit if I was staying on top of my business. Frustrating to end the drill on a click and a miss instead of a bang, but that'll teach me to keep a better eye on my round count. Turn that last -10 point mike into an alpha and my HF would have been over 4.5.