I'm from Texas and am embarrassingly ignorant on all things cold weather-related. Taking the family to Jackson Hole this winter where we'll be doing a lot of longer outside-related activities, but nothing that is too exertive. We won't be skiing or snowboarding. We'll be taking a snowmobile tour of Yellowstone, doing a sleigh ride through the Elk reserve, snow tubing, maybe some light snowshoeing, things like that. The two guided tours we are taking are 12 hours, and 8 hours respectively. I've also rented some snowmobiles to do some unguided rides that we could potentially be on all-day. Thought I could just go to Amazon and get some longjohns and be set, but once I got there, I discovered the whole world of "layering". I'm seeing base layer this, mid-layer that. Then they have different "weights" of the base layer, so they have a mid-weight base layer, which isn't to be confused with a mid-layer. And this stuff isn't cheap, some of the more outdoor known brands you can spend $120 on a base layer shirt alone. So, I understand the concept, you put several layers of clothes on and several layers are better than one thick layer at keeping you warm. But is there any reason, in my case, to need to spend $200 a day on what amounts to underwear? Having several days worth of this "base layer" underwear for each of us could quite literally cost thousands (emphasis on the s) of dollars (I'm not certain the cabin has washer/dryer). So before I dig any deeper, having never been in very cold weather for any real length of time, is this layering system necessary? Or is it just a marketing thing? Is this one of those things where I'll really wish I had it an hour into an 8-hour snowmobile ride, or can I just throw on some long john's, a long sleeve shirt, a thick hoodie over that, and a big winter coat on top and some flannel lined pants and be just as well off? If it is necessary, is the cheaper stuff just as good as the more expensive stuff? Carhartt has some base layer shirts for $40, will it do just as good as a Merino Smartwool base layer shirt at REI for $120? Take it easy on me, took a lot of courage to ask the OB about clothing, but I don't want our vacation to suck because we brought the wrong clothing.

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Ogre09 said:

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We spent time in CO last year the week after Christmas and the lows were -8 with highs around 9-10.

We're cold weather newbs too and I wore my cabelas baselayer that I wear hunting, jeans and snowboarding pants with a similar layering on top. Wool socks and insulated Columbia boots, glove liners and snow gloves. The only thing I feel like I failed at was the socks/boots and gloves. My fingers and especially my toes were so cold that the rest didn't matter. I was miserable. Putting hand warmer packets in my boots was the only relief.

We're going to the beach this year.....

Layers...a good base layer is worth it. I like merino, black ovis or Amazon has cheaper brands. Then insulation layer (puffy or fleece or both). And then outer windproof/water proof shell.

The cheaper stuff and Carhartt will work just fine probably. Where it falls apart is if you're being really active or the conditions go to crap.

This is off of my experience layering for tours and excursions. It has also served me well for duck hunting too.

Base layer
Merino wool for base layering is the best. It wicks moisture and does not get the funk nearly as quickly.

Next is synthetics. good at moisture control bad a funk control

worst at everything cotton. terrible at moisture control not great at warmth retention and gets funky

Mid layer
This is where like to use fleece or down. This is the layer that captures your warmth. Since you will be snow mobiling I would lean more toward fleece. Down once wet loses a ton of its effectiveness.

Outer layer
This is where you want your wind blocking and if needed your water proofing. This layer also captures heat but more importantly it should block things that destroy the insulation layers below.

I have found for bang for the buck Columbia offers a ton of good options. If you have one of their outlets close by you should be able to find some fairly priced good items.

Thanks for the info, sounds like the consensus is we'll need to get some expensive underwear.

I will take a stab at this for you. Layering is absolutely essential and in my experiences you get what you pay for! Columbia and Campmor are typically value buys to source all of the essential stuff without spending an arm and a leg. I would also start buying now to spread out the cost. As I was growing up I spent about 3-4 years slowly acquiring everything I would need to be in the mountains and be comfortable without asking my parents for it all at once. Now that I am older and on my own I slowly am replacing stuff one or two items a season because it can break the bank to do it right.

Since you are snowmobiling (which I have never done), I am willing to bet you are going to need more. When it is cold out the clothes don't generate the heat, your body does. The less active you are the more heat holding capacity you need the clothes to have. The shell layer doesn't stop wind, and the heat will be blown from your body. Anything gets wet and it ceases to insulate. Dead, dry air is the key. Hence the need to layer with wicking/breathable layers, puffy second layers, and a waterproof shell layer that will let moisture out.

Earlier somebody mentioned cold fingers and toes and planning on a solution of warmers. Fingers and toes get cold because your core is cold. When your core gets cold it stops moving blood to your extremities and then the extremities get cold. Keep the core nice and toasty (without being so hot as to sweat) and the blood never stops flowing to the fingers and toes.

Thanks...do you feel like it was a moisture problem? Socks got sweaty and the sweat got cold, or just not enough insulation?

AgBQ-00 said:

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This is off of my experience layering for tours and excursions. It has also served me well for duck hunting too.

Base layer
Merino wool for base layering is the best. It wicks moisture and does not get the funk nearly as quickly.

Next is synthetics. good at moisture control bad a funk control

worst at everything cotton. terrible at moisture control not great at warmth retention and gets funky

Mid layer
This is where like to use fleece or down. This is the layer that captures your warmth. Since you will be snow mobiling I would lean more toward fleece. Down once wet loses a ton of its effectiveness.

Outer layer
This is where you want your wind blocking and if needed your water proofing. This layer also captures heat but more importantly it should block things that destroy the insulation layers below.

I have found for bang for the buck Columbia offers a ton of good options. If you have one of their outlets close by you should be able to find some fairly priced good items.

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Thanks...any experience with heated clothing? I guess there are shirts and jackets that you can hook up to your phone as a power source and it will provide heat for up to 10 hours. Would this be more prudent for people who might possibly never use all these layers again?

Bronco6G said:

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Thanks...do you feel like it was a moisture problem? Socks got sweaty and the sweat got cold, or just not enough insulation?

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Start with adding polypropylene liners to your sock layer.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-midcalf-polypropylene-liner-socks-2-pair-pack

This is essential base layer when I go ice fishing.

I use all my Polartec Marine Corps E.C.W.C.S. stuff that I have from the Marines. You can find some online and the cost is not expensive. It works well and it last.

No experience with that sort of thing.

One thing I forgot to add about Columbia clothing. I like their omni-heat stuff. It has lining that uses space blanket type material and it works really well. It is offered in all three layers as well IIRC.

AgResearch said:

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Bronco6G said:

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Thanks...do you feel like it was a moisture problem? Socks got sweaty and the sweat got cold, or just not enough insulation?

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Start with adding polypropylene liners to your sock layer.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-midcalf-polypropylene-liner-socks-2-pair-pack

This is essential base layer when I go ice fishing.

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Thanks, going to show my ignorance again. These would go on first as a base layer? And then put on some warmer wool-type socks?

Bronco6G said:

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AgResearch said:

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Bronco6G said:

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Thanks...do you feel like it was a moisture problem? Socks got sweaty and the sweat got cold, or just not enough insulation?

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Start with adding polypropylene liners to your sock layer.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-midcalf-polypropylene-liner-socks-2-pair-pack

This is essential base layer when I go ice fishing.

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Thanks, going to show my ignorance again. These would go on first as a base layer? And then put on some warmer wool-type socks?

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Yes they go on 1st

I'll just add that the coldest thing on your list(snowmobiling in Yellowstone) they will provide you with snowsuit/boots/gloves that work really well.

Also keep in mind you're not going to need underwear for everyday. Wool keeps fairly clean. Unless you shat yourself. Many on this board have elk hunted in the backwoods for 5-7 days with maybe 2 pair of baselayers. So you don't need to spend thousands on a new pair for everyday.

You may have friends that have all this gear and would be willing to loan it to you.

We have family in Idaho and over the years acquired lots of cold weather gear; we loan it out all the time to our BCS friends.

lazuras_dc said:

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Also keep in mind you're not going to need underwear for everyday. Wool keeps fairly clean. Unless you shat yourself. Many on this board have elk hunted in the backwoods for 5-7 days with maybe 2 pair of baselayers. So you don't need to spend thousands on a new pair for everyday.

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What he said… you can get by with one pair of fleece base layer for the week. Id start with a mid wt layer if you have to buy one. Under armor type long sleeve compression shirt roughly equals a lt wt base layer imo. After that base layer insulate with fleece or down something like that. How much depends on the temp and your activity level. Last layer is a wind rain and snow blocker. Sounds like the outfitter may have this for snow mobile tours. Warm gloves, hat and face protection with scarf or gator or bavalaca (?). Layer up and layer off base and insulation layers depending on temp.

Yeah, definintely didn't have sock liners, just wool socks. My feet didn't get wet aside from some sweat, I think it was more the insulation in the boots not being enough or the socks being crappy.

Get decent insulated boots. Cold feet will ruin EVERYTHING. Silk/synthetic/wool sock liners are a personal choice, I've used them all to various degrees of effectiveness. Good wool socks over them.

Cabelas has some pretty decent mid-weight base layers for a decent price. They're also available in Tall sizes, if that matters to you (it did to me - having your base layer shirt pull out of the waistband sucks.)
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-ecwcs-midweight-base-layer-long-sleeve-crew-for-men
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-ecwcs-midweight-base-layer-pants-for-men

After that, activity level really matters. You can accidentally way overdress if you're going to be active. On a more active day, I might skip the base layer pants above and go with some Under Armor compression tights I've had forever. Less active, wear the base layer pants and some decent soft-shell style, lined pants.

Like everyone else said - check with your friends. People that ski or hunt ducks will likely have all of this gear on hand.

redag06 said:

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I'll just add that the coldest thing on your list(snowmobiling in Yellowstone) they will provide you with snowsuit/boots/gloves that work really well.

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If you will be driving the snowmobile, have an extra layer for your hands under their gloves. They will be exposed and be the coldest part of your body.

Those are the baselayers I used. They are great.

HtownAg92 said:

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redag06 said:

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I'll just add that the coldest thing on your list(snowmobiling in Yellowstone) they will provide you with snowsuit/boots/gloves that work really well.

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If you will be driving the snowmobile, have an extra layer for your hands under their gloves. They will be exposed and be the coldest part of your body.

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Snowmobiling in CO last year, I found a thin set of gloves or glove liners was enough (they had handwarmers built into the handlebars). My larger mittens made operating the throttle difficult while turning.

Just go to FirstLite.com and load up. Show up with a open checkbook for a good time.

How old are your kids?

Don't let their core temp drop too low, adults can deal with it MUCH better but being out in low temps for 12 hours is a legit concern for young kids with exposed skin etc.

In-laws from the UP had strict rules on time limits outside with young ones when it was near zero.

Good for you. Y'all are going to have a blast. I've lived in Utah the last 15 years. I've spent a fair amount of time in the mountains and I love the snow.

In my opinion, a lot of people overthink this. High dollar wool base layer is certainly nice to have, but it isn't a must have. You do not need high end stuff, it just isn't necessary for a family vacation. If I'm in the snow skiing, hiking, hunting, ice fishing etc i simply layer up. I have wool thermals, but I don't always use them.

Layers, waterproof outer layer, good socks, warm feet, warm hands, and a good beanie are keys.

On bottom I'll wear thermals and my snow pants. On top it's thermals, a second layer which is either a hoodie, a flannel, a vest or something similar and my jacket. Carhartt makes good beanies that don't break the bank.

For your kids, keep their hands and feet warm and they will have a blast. 9 times out of 10 the fun stops for us when their gloves fall off and they they get their hands wet.

Have fun! It will be a great trip

We did a snowmobile tour in Yellowstone maybe 10 years ago (amazing experience).

They actually provided their approved jumpsuit that you wore. It was very warm and they also provided approved gloves etc. considering we were gone from early morning until mid afternoon, they wanted you in the proper clothing.

I wish I had taken some thin gloves to wear under the big ones they provided and I wish I had taken some thick SmartWool socks to help in the boots. If the heaters fail you will wish you had those.

Focus on extremities; hands, feet, and face. This means really good gloves, socks, and insulated boots.

For the rest of you body follow what you're reading in this thread and other places online.

Lastly, good luck. I'm sure the trip will be a blast, and Jackson Hole is probably my favorite place I've been to in the US, but it's a rugged kind of cold, don't underestimate it.

7yrplan said:

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Good for you. Y'all are going to have a blast. I've lived in Utah the last 15 years. I've spent a fair amount of time in the mountains and I love the snow.

In my opinion, a lot of people overthink this. High dollar wool base layer is certainly nice to have, but it isn't a must have. You do not need high end stuff, it just isn't necessary for a family vacation. If I'm in the snow skiing, hiking, hunting, ice fishing etc i simply layer up. I have wool thermals, but I don't always use them.

Layers, waterproof outer layer, good socks, warm feet, warm hands, and a good beanie are keys.

On bottom I'll wear thermals and my snow pants. On top it's thermals, a second layer which is either a hoodie, a flannel, a vest or something similar and my jacket. Carhartt makes good beanies that don't break the bank.

For your kids, keep their hands and feet warm and they will have a blast. 9 times out of 10 the fun stops for us when their gloves fall off and they they get their hands wet.

Have fun! It will be a great trip

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This is important here. I lived in Wyoming for a couple of years and most of my gear was pretty basic stuff from Columbia outlets or Cabelas. I'm really cheap when it comes to clothing and never could pull the trigger on high end stuff from First Lite, Sitka, or others. I managed just fine with typical synthetic base layers that are much cheaper than merino although I did have at least one set of merino wool layers and socks that I would wear on multi-day hunts. If you're going to a warm room each night then synthetic will get the job done just fine since you'll be able to completely dry out each evening and you can throw your layers into the wash, if needed.

The snowmobile trip through Yellowstone will probably be your coldest day. In and around town in Jackson isn't usually too bad as long as they are not in an inversion period with cold air trapped in the valley. You won't want to have any exposed skin for your snowmobile rides. Also make sure your gear is snugged up enough that snow won't run down your neck or the back of your pants. Other than that, just keep it simple and have fun!

Bronco6G said:

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I'm from Texas and am embarrassingly ignorant on all things cold weather-related.

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You must work in the electrical utilities industry.

Also from Texas, lived/worked in multiple northern cold states as I am currently

Under Armor Cold gear, you can probably get away with the Target or Academy Brands as long as you're not in any real danger of spending the night in sub-zero weather.

Wool or synthetic next to your skin, NOT cotton. Especially for socks. You can get away with a Cotton hoodie as, again, you're not doing the survival thing.

For Boots, I use Sorrel in the snow, but any good hiking boot will do as long as it keeps your feet dry and you have good socks under. Depends on how much walking you will do.

Get beanies for everyone that go down over the tops of the ears.

Face shields/Buffs (not for covid, for keeping the wind off of your face)

Gloves. I've had the same pair of Eddie Bauer Gloves for over 20years but how much you spend etc depends on you.

A lot of good advice so far but living in Minnesota, one thing I've learned is that if your fingers and toes are painfully cold, it probably means you don't have enough to keep your core warm...or you're taking your gloves off too much.

For the snowmobile trip, the outfitter may rent the snowmobile suits. Layer underneath but reserve those for your family...nothing is warmer than an insulated onesie.

You want to wear their onesie, the exhaust from the other machines gets into your clothing. Layer and wear their gear.

Although most machines now are probably 4 stroke and don't stink.

Lots of good info above..... You lose quit a bit of heat through your noggin, so a good beanie (tobaggan) is paramount, as well as keeping hands and feet warm.

I'll add that mittens work better than gloves at keeping hands and fingers warm. Plus you can have the handwarmers inside them as well.