I can't post links. TPWD lowered the limit to 3 trout. 17"-23" one over 25"

From jfk south.

No idea how they'll actually enforce it around the jfk but it looks like they are really worried about the kill in the lower laguna.

Edit. The fish are good from jfk north apparently.
This just got passed 4 hours ago.

Thanks for sharing.

I predict a debate in two years about whether or not the upper coast should join the lower coast in the 3 fish limit. #newnormal

I read it again. Includes surf fishing. They are saying it'll take two years to see the effects.

Lot of small fish will be killed releasing 17" and down trout. I personally think I'd rather see them make you keep the first 3 trout caught and no catch and release after you've caught your three.

TPWD knows what they're doing I guess.

Matagorda to Rockport was hit really hard but that area isn't included? Seems strange.

Ifishandlie said:

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I read it again. Includes surf fishing. They are saying it'll take two years to see the effects.

Lot of small fish will be killed releasing 17" and down trout. I personally think I'd rather see them make you keep the first 3 trout caught and no catch and release after you've caught your three.

TPWD knows what they're doing I guess.

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I agree 100%. IMO, the use of croakers has diminished the 19-23" trout harvest considerably over the years, and that size fish is a prolific spawner. I believe that if the rules were changed to the first 5 fish caught, many guides would use shrimp and a popping cork to go after bird trout and get off the water sooner.

https://www.lsonews.com/llm-trout-limit-to-change/

from the article:

Quote:

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The rule will provide for a three-fish limit (as opposed to the current five-fish limit) and size restrictions of 17-23 inches (as opposed to the current 15-25 inches, with one fish allowed over 25 inches).

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I am not sure I read that as still allowing 'one over 25'. I believe what is in parenthesis is referencing the old limits and the new verbiage being '17-23 inches' period.

As I understand from the article linked by Centerpole90, although the Emergency Rule has been approved, it will not go into effect until it is filed with the Secretary of State. The goal is to have it filed on April 1.

Quote:

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TPWD Executive Director Carter Smith said the changes would begin when the Emergency Rule is filed with the Secretary of State, with a goal of filing the rule on April 1, giving the department time to issue press releases to notify anglers of the changes.

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Agree with that as well.

Cant pass it soon enough.

Centerpole90 said:

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https://www.lsonews.com/llm-trout-limit-to-change/

from the article:

Quote:

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The rule will provide for a three-fish limit (as opposed to the current five-fish limit) and size restrictions of 17-23 inches (as opposed to the current 15-25 inches, with one fish allowed over 25 inches).

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I am not sure I read that as still allowing 'one over 25'. I believe what is in parenthesis is referencing the old limits and the new verbiage being '17-23 inches' period.

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Think you're right. No fish over 25". TPWD needs to get this clear. Get this out there. If the outboard group can be confused there's no hope for normal Texans.

Going to push more people to catch more reds and drum. Going to hurt those populations as people will catch limits of trout pretty quick.

Be interesting to see if guides will run to Baffin to catch 6, 9 or 12 fish. Lots of gas. Probably puts more pressure on areas closer to the jfk to save gas and time. I'm originally from Rockport (live on the island now ) They are whacking trout up there. Reds are tough. There's tons of reds in the surf. The airboat guys are waking across St. joes and catching drum and reds in the surf. Interesting times

jayelbee said:

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I don't know if it's the time of year or what, but the Run N Gun guys have gone from filling up Instagram with coolers full of trout to cleaning tables covered in reds and drum.

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Aren't they up north? Like port o'conner?
I was a guide in Rockport and port a for 25 years. My connections are only good north of the jfk bridge


I know jay watkins is whacking trout but no reds. I have no info north of matagorda shoreline and south of the jfk. I'm usually on the water at least once a week but haven't been out since the freeze. I'll be out this Sunday but im not a good fisherman down south ( where I'm fishing).
Rockport and port a I'll hang with anyone. Down here I suck. I'm good with trout but can't pattern the reds down here. It's fun. I'm learning all over again.

Anyway, I usually have info that's pretty good around port a and Rockport and all I've been told is trout are good. Reds and drum are tough except on Estes flats.

I hope that helps some.

Troutslime said:

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Ifishandlie said:

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I read it again. Includes surf fishing. They are saying it'll take two years to see the effects.

Lot of small fish will be killed releasing 17" and down trout. I personally think I'd rather see them make you keep the first 3 trout caught and no catch and release after you've caught your three.

TPWD knows what they're doing I guess.

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I agree 100%. IMO, the use of croakers has diminished the 19-23" trout harvest considerably over the years, and that size fish is a prolific spawner. I believe that if the rules were changed to the first 5 fish caught, many guides would use shrimp and a popping cork to go after bird trout and get off the water sooner.

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I suggest making croaker a game fish and do away with using them as bait forever. Guides have been raping the bays with croaker for many years now.

I wouldn't have posted here when I was guiding because of statements like this.

You do realize that lots of fisherman, not Just guides, use croaker? The bait stands couldn't afford to justify a shrimper to catch croaker to solely support guides.

Also, a guide doesn't need croaker. I can catch trout all day without them. Never use them myself. Croaker help people who aren't experts catch fish.

Lots of youngsters have been hooked on fishing with croaker. Croaker help people who lack experience. I think TPWD would have stopped it long ago If it hurt the population.

You don't have to use croaker, but don't hate those that do. Most of them are young, or inexperienced.

Edit.
It's not guides "raping" the bays. It's guides trying to efficiently help people catch fish. Live shrimp will kill a lot more undersized trout than croaker. The days of treble hooks and shrimp are mostly gone. Thank goodness. That killed a lot of small trout

Yes, I do realize that lots of people besides guides use croaker. I apologize if I offended you with the croaker commit. But you also admitted that croaker help people with no experience catch fish. So we agree on that. Maybe my problem is with the abundance of guides. If every guide can get their customers a limit of trout everyday then maybe we have too many guides on the water.

I can guarantee you most of those clients will end up throwing away freezer burnt fish.

So as a guide or former guide, what's your solution? And I mean that sincerely, not trying to pick a fight.

I'd like to see an oversized trout tag
Just keep one over 25 a year
I know most people push to release them anyways but surprised it's not like reds limited to once a year without ordering new tag

Quote:

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Edit.

It's not guides "raping" the bays. It's guides trying to efficiently help people catch fish. Live shrimp will kill a lot more undersized trout than croaker. The days of treble hooks and shrimp are mostly gone. Thank goodness. That killed a lot of small trout

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That's the point. If guides go back to shrimp and a popping cork, they catch more small fish. With a "first five" type limit, there's no such thing as a throwback. Croakers are also expensive. Guides could cut costs with shrimp.

DargelSkout said:

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Yes, I do realize that lots of people besides guides use croaker. I apologize if I offended you with the croaker commit. But you also admitted that croaker help people with no experience catch fish. So we agree on that. Maybe my problem is with the abundance of guides. If every guide can get their customers a limit of trout everyday then maybe we have too many guides on the water.

I can guarantee you most of those clients will end up throwing away freezer burnt fish.

So as a guide or former guide, what's your solution? And I mean that sincerely, not trying to pick a fight.

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Doesn't offend me at all. I hated the weekend guides and the " retired from something else and became guide for fun guys" .

We use to complain that there were too many guides ourselves.

We always wanted every guide to be required to have insurance. Most don't. I did. Cost me about $3000/year. My license was $250. We wanted a guide license raised to $2500 and all guides be insured. There was a big group of us that tried to push that through several years. TPWD saw no need I guess

The system allows anyone with a coast guard license to be a guide. The market dictates prices etc.. Just like any other business. I fished 230 days a year and duck hunted another 30-40 days.

Anyway, there's guides and there's guys with a license. Not all guides are good is my point. They fish, but don't catch. I'm not trying to brag and say I'm special,
I'm just saying I had lots of days on the water and saw a lot in real life over the years.

TPWD sets the limits no matter how you catch the fish.

I always wanted our limit set at 14" and you keep the first 5, 10, whatever limit they set, fish and stop. Louisiana kinda does that. Only time I think those guys are smart over there.

A 14" trout will hit croaker and swallow it. Much smaller fish will hit, it but can't usually get it down and don't die. There's not a lot of difference in 14" and 15" fish. IMO.

12" fish will kill themselves on shrimp. Lots of dead, young trout when using shrimp.

Bottom line is people hired me to catch fish. They don't care how we caught them they expected to catch fish everyday They had zero fishing skills.

Croaker caught them fish, killing the fewest, smaller fish. That's why I used them. Not because it was easy. I used 10-12 dozen croaker for a group of 4. That means they missed A LOT even with croaker. I truly wish there was a better way, but whatever it is, it hasn't been a invented yet.

Please remember I'm talking about fishing everyday, with bad fisherman and kids with no experience. I'm not talking about fishing with waders and lures and experienced fisherman.

I'm all for the 3 fish limit and I do believe that the majority will catch and release for the rest of the year.

No offense, but the idea to catch and keep the first fish that meets your limit and put your rod down would never work. It would kill the industry. And there would be guides running 5 trips a day when the fishing is good. Also it would kill the big trout fishing, which one of the big drivers to the fishing economy. There are plenty of days where I wade thru 50 "keeper" trout looking for a big bite.

There are really good proposed ideas out there. But I think the most important is to keep what you NEED and release the rest. And for guides to push catch and release which a lot are starting to do.

Well I'm headed to Baffin in two weeks and I can tell you I won't keep a single fish. I'm not even going to take a stringer with me. I don't get why people on the coast have such a big issue with not keeping some fish. It's very common in bass fishing and freshwater trout fishing. Sure keep a few on occasion but just have fun catching. Guides should really do their best to promote this IMO.

docb said:

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Well I'm headed to Baffin in two weeks and I can tell you I won't keep a single fish. I'm not even going to take a stringer with me. I don't get why people on the coast have such a big issue with not keeping some fish. It's very common in bass fishing and freshwater trout fishing. Sure keep a few on occasion but just have fun catching. Guides should really do their best to promote this IMO.

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THIS

I think the limit would be fine going back to 5 eventually. And nothing wrong with a family meal. What I'm saying is do we really need a family meal everyday we hit the water?

Everyone has valid points. Remember you're looking at from your perspective only.

Most reputable guides push hard for release of big fish. I refused to clean any trout over 25" or red over 35". I explained that it wasn't a good eating fish and was equivalent to keeping a 10 # bass. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes not. I'd be in favor of TPWD not allowing guided trips to keep oversized fish. It'll never happen but I'd support it.

I've seen countless big bass guys (guides for bass even) completely change gears in saltwater. Keep everything, wanting double limits, and fish several days in a row. They would always say we have plenty of fish.

The guide can't make a customer not keep fish. He's just working. I


You guys ( this board) are truly an amazing group. Conservation minded. Sportsman. You care about the resources. Unfortunately, you're in the minority now days.

Unfortunately the guide business has some really bad guys out there like any industry. I've punched another guide in the mouth at the dock for breaking a gulls neck when it stole his croaker. I watched him kill that gull and let it float away. Happens a lot. I hate those guys. They don't care about anything but a check at the end of the day so they can drink beer at the dock all afternoon.

There's also some great guides. I really wish TPWD would make the license more prohibitive for entry. Weed out some of the lowlifes.

As for croaker, I can only say what I've seen. Croaker kill less fish ( numbers Of small fish). I've never seen trout turn down shrimp. But that kills tons of small fish. Croaker do catch bigger trout more regularly.

So do you kill more fish with shrimp or kill larger fish with croaker? I don't have the answer.

No one has mentioned circle hooks in this thread

. I love them. Use them for redfish. They save a lot of fish. It's hard to get customers to not set the hook and miss fish but once they catch on those hooks are great

Treble hooks kill. You'll catch just as many fish with a kahle hook under a popping cork and kill fewer fish. Hook the shrimp the same. Much easier to get the fish off too. Try it. I promise it'll work great

Ifishandlie said:

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The guide can't make a customer not keep fish. He's just working.

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I disagree. A guide can absolutely make customers not keep fish. They just have to establish up front when being booked that they're 100% CPR. Maybe even offer a discount for it like some guides do.

I don't have all the scientific data but a few things:
1) I don't buy the old school idea that you can't CPR trout. There have been tons and tons of studies showing that trout have better than an 80% survival rate when released in Texas.
2) I know it's not just guides doing it but I would support a ban on croaker for bait due to the dual impact on trout populations because of it's efficacy and because of the almost total collapse of the population of large croaker. A 12-14" croaker actually provides bigger filets (thicker) than most 16" trout and tastes really damn good. Old salts will tell you of the croaker runs in the past when people loaded up on them for eating.
3) I'm curious why TxPW didn't go farther north with their changes? I don't know what their data told them but I know from people on the water that East Matagorda in particular was absolutely hammered- as in a couple guides counting well over 1000 dead trout before they stopped counting just on one of the bars west of Oyster Farm. And they saw that repeated all over the bay. I took my boys out of Seadrift last week with a guide I've fished with for a long time (it's depressing since I sold my boat and waiting on the new one) and we caught a few reds but it was really eerie how there was almost zero bait in the water. No shrimp, no pogies, and very few mullet. We definitely released our fish.

https://instagr.am/p/CMntxIYDtPU

The market ( customers) dictate what a guide does. If there were enough customers out there who didn't want to keep fish no guide would keep fish. No guide enjoys cleaning fish. None

Guide provide a service. The customer ultimately chooses. Not the guide.

Unfortunately, 90% of fisherman want to keep fish. That's not a guide issue. Really shouldn't be debated.

TPWD decides the number of fish taken. All fisherman work within those boundaries.

trying to force catch and release on the public is not going to happen. That happens through education and hopefully a good guide will be teaching novice fisherman that.

Ifishandlie said:

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No one has mentioned circle hooks in this thread

. I love them. Use them for redfish. They save a lot of fish. It's hard to get customers to not set the hook and miss fish but once they catch on those hooks are great

Treble hooks kill. You'll catch just as many fish with a kahle hook under a popping cork and kill fewer fish. Hook the shrimp the same. Much easier to get the fish off too. Try it. I promise it'll work great

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This is true. I was going to bring up this point when you said shrimp under a popping cork kills more fish. My wife and kids use them and we probably have less than 5 fish a year die from swallowing the hook (easily fish 30-40 days a year).

The only treble hooks I have are on topwaters and corkies. I'm thinking about changing them out too.

Edit: My wife and kids use K hooks.

Ifishandlie said:

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The market ( customers) dictate what a guide does. If there were enough customers out there who didn't want to keep fish no guide would keep fish. No guide enjoys cleaning fish. None

Guide provide a service. The customer ultimately chooses. Not the guide.

Unfortunately, 90% of fisherman want to keep fish. That's not a guide issue. Really shouldn't be debated.

TPWD decides the number of fish taken. All fisherman work within those boundaries.

trying to force catch and release on the public is not going to happen. That happens through education and hopefully a good guide will be teaching novice fisherman that.

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No offense but a large percentage of guides have always complained when limits were decreased claiming they would no longer be able to book trips and make a living and the data simply doesn't bear that out. There are more guides than ever.

If the guides flat out told people they were only CPR or gave a discount for CPR or added a $100 charge to be able to keep fish they would be booked just as solid. It's about setting expectations and I know plenty of guides who are booked 225 days a year or more and they flat out tell people they're not keeping fish but they stay booked.

Go look at the guides who handle all the novice/tourist trips between Destin and Panama City for inshore trips (snapper, cobia, and reef or offshore is another animal). From May to September those guys are running 2-3 trips per day and almost none of them ever keep/clean any fish.

You're looking at this from your perspective. You seek out guides who fish like you want to fish. Nothing wrong with that.

Every good guide would rather release all the fish. No one wants to keep and clean fish. I'd be curious to know if the guides you are referring to only cpr?

Every guide is cpr if that's what the customer wants.

Again. You fish your way. Let your neighbor fish his way. A good guide will take care of both of you and make your day fun. You're trying to make the guides force your views on their customers. It won't work. Has to start with the fisherman.
That's all about education

Edit.
I don't think it's fair to compare Florida to Texas. Lots of Texans go to Louisiana ONLY because the limits are higher. Meaning they want to catch/keep MORE fish
I've seen multiple threads on here about that.