After this week, I am strongly considering purchasing a generator for power outages. However, I know very little about them. I want one that will come on after the outage, and I want everything inside to work appropriately. My house is about 2400 sq feet. What size do I need? cost? who installs it?
Generators
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Last: 3 yr ago by sawemoffshort07
Generac.
2400 whole house should run $8500-10,000 under normal circumstances ... expect a spike for the next 3-4 months.
Lead time was about 40 weeks before this happened, likely will be over a year before you get Generac to install one.
1600 square feet should cost $7-9000 including installation if I'm doing my math correctly?
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
Somebody posted on another thread that they just got one and it was somewhere around $10-12k installed, can't remember exactly.
I've looked at this alot over a long period of time. I decided that a whole home generator is not worth it for me. I'm going to get a decent size portable generator(6-8 kw). I live near the coast though so my biggest concern is normally loss of power after a hurricane. Everyones situation is different and I don't think it's a waste of money, just not as necessary for me.
I've looked at this alot over a long period of time. I decided that a whole home generator is not worth it for me. I'm going to get a decent size portable generator(6-8 kw). I live near the coast though so my biggest concern is normally loss of power after a hurricane. Everyones situation is different and I don't think it's a waste of money, just not as necessary for me.
Ordered mom a 24KW Generac whole house system in January. Already have pad installed, natural gas meter and electric meter within 6 feet of pad. $9,000 or so.
At that time, Generac factory was 20 weeks behind.
A month ago, Generac stock was $267 a share. Currently up 30% at around $350.
At that time, Generac factory was 20 weeks behind.
A month ago, Generac stock was $267 a share. Currently up 30% at around $350.
Someone tell me about portable options that I can back feed panel with (properly with ATS switch).
Propane?
Gas?
Diesel?
Is there a dual feed option to hook up Nat Gas + other?
Propane?
Gas?
Diesel?
Is there a dual feed option to hook up Nat Gas + other?
Bought this at Costco on Friday, and luckily haven't needed it. The electric start didn't work so I'll need to see what's wrong with it, but I like the idea of tri-fuel. Once spring or summer roll around I'll call an electrician so a transfer switch can be installed.
https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100648883.html
https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100648883.html
dsvogel05 said:
Bought this at Costco on Friday, and luckily haven't needed it. The electric start didn't work so I'll need to see what's wrong with it, but I like the idea of tri-fuel. Once spring or summer roll around I'll call an electrician so a transfer switch can be installed.
https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100648883.html
I was looking at that one. Trying to resolve the THD and how to handle if I go this route.
From Costco reviews: Understand what THD (total harmonic distortion) is and how it will affect your home electronics. I had to call Firman to find out this unit has a THD of 25% which is off the charts high and will destroy sensitive electronics and expensive appliances.
I am looking at that one as well. But I am leaning towards using it as more of a portable model. My thoughts are to get a window unit for the master bedroom that will run off this generator, and use extension cords for a refrigerator and other needed power.ag_pete09 said:dsvogel05 said:
Bought this at Costco on Friday, and luckily haven't needed it. The electric start didn't work so I'll need to see what's wrong with it, but I like the idea of tri-fuel. Once spring or summer roll around I'll call an electrician so a transfer switch can be installed.
https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100648883.html
I was looking at that one. Trying to resolve the THD and how to handle if I go this route.
From Costco reviews: Understand what THD (total harmonic distortion) is and how it will affect your home electronics. I had to call Firman to find out this unit has a THD of 25% which is off the charts high and will destroy sensitive electronics and expensive appliances.
I am still looking into and learning about the THD issue, any input would be appreciated. My research so far indicates that it is only a problem for electronics like TV, cable box, computers etc. Therefore, it wouldn't be an issue for the window AC unit or a basic refrigerator. If that is true, I would then get a battery backup system for the electronics that I want to run.
This option would work well, because I could install a T with a quick connect on my pool heater line and run the generator off that. It is a short run to where all my other stuff would be from there. If natural gas is an issue, I could switch to propane or gasoline, but I would imagine both of those would become scarce before the nat gas.
It really depends what you want to do with it (how long/conditions/how many devices). If plugging into a modern home's circuit directly, then you need a good THD likely for things like smart switches/devices/thermostats etc.
If just using for some applications and heater/AC circuit separately, you have options. A line conditioning UPS for instance could be used for TV/stereo/radio (200-300 bucks), which rectifies to DC then inverts to DC. You could do this for the whole thing depending on generator size (1500 VA one would be about 1100 bucks for a name brand one like powerware).
If just using for some applications and heater/AC circuit separately, you have options. A line conditioning UPS for instance could be used for TV/stereo/radio (200-300 bucks), which rectifies to DC then inverts to DC. You could do this for the whole thing depending on generator size (1500 VA one would be about 1100 bucks for a name brand one like powerware).
I have the Generac GP17500 Portable Generator. It took several months to be delivered once it was ordered. This storm was its first time in real action. It worked like a champ. I had an electrician friend install a manual transfer switch. It burns about a gallon/hour depending upon the load. We loaded it with two nat gas furnaces, pool pumps, dishwasher, oven, stove, 3 refrigerator/freezers, washer/dryer, lights, fans, TV and other misc devices. Never once did it stagger when a new load was added.bassmaster07 said:
Someone tell me about portable options that I can back feed panel with (properly with ATS switch).
Propane?
Gas?
Diesel?
Is there a dual feed option to hook up Nat Gas + other?
I built a small enclosure that is easy to take down and put back up to keep it dry, while allowing it to have plenty of air flow.
If this was needed during warmer months, it could easily handle a 5+ ton AC. We have two units, so I will likely only run one unit at a time so as not to test it's surge capacity limits (26.25 kW).
The thing I really like about the portable option is the cost is about 1/3 of a permanent nat gas unit with similar KW ratings. I can take care of the maintenance and it goes with me if I decide to move.
AKA 13-0
I think I would only need a UPS for the TV, cable modem and router. Everything else should be ok.
I think having an enclosure is fine for storage. It needs to be wide open to run.Quote:
I built a small enclosure that is easy to take down and put back up to keep it dry, while allowing it to have plenty of air flow.
I still don't know enough about all of it, but have seen where you want THD below 5%. Most of those are the inverter generators that are more expensive with lower power.
This one is more slightly more expensive and would require a conversion kit (+~$150), but has good power (lower with NG) and <5% THD.
https://www.costco.com/generac-8%2c500w-running--10%2c000w-peak-efi-generator-with-electric-start.product.100646706.html
This one is more slightly more expensive and would require a conversion kit (+~$150), but has good power (lower with NG) and <5% THD.
https://www.costco.com/generac-8%2c500w-running--10%2c000w-peak-efi-generator-with-electric-start.product.100646706.html
Burn-It said:I have the Generac GP17500 Portable Generator. It took several months to be delivered once it was ordered. This storm was its first time in real action. It worked like a champ. I had an electrician friend install a manual transfer switch. It burns about a gallon/hour depending upon the load. We loaded it with two nat gas furnaces, pool pumps, dishwasher, oven, stove, 3 refrigerator/freezers, washer/dryer, lights, fans, TV and other misc devices. Never once did it stagger when a new load was added.bassmaster07 said:
Someone tell me about portable options that I can back feed panel with (properly with ATS switch).
Propane?
Gas?
Diesel?
Is there a dual feed option to hook up Nat Gas + other?
I built a small enclosure that is easy to take down and put back up to keep it dry, while allowing it to have plenty of air flow.
If this was needed during warmer months, it could easily handle a 5+ ton AC. We have two units, so I will likely only run one unit at a time so as not to test it's surge capacity limits (26.25 kW).
The thing I really like about the portable option is the cost is about 1/3 of a permanent nat gas unit with similar KW ratings. I can take care of the maintenance and it goes with me if I decide to move.
Doesn't that generac only have a 120/240 50A receptacle on it? How are you getting the full 17.5kW out of it?
CanyonAg77 said:I think having an enclosure is fine for storage. It needs to be wide open to run.Quote:
I built a small enclosure that is easy to take down and put back up to keep it dry, while allowing it to have plenty of air flow.
"Enclosure" is probably too strong of a description for what I rigged together. Maybe "lean-to" is a better description. I made sure the air intakes were not affected & routed the exhaust about 8 feet away. It has served its purpose to keep rain, sleet, etc off the unit while allowing plenty of airflow. This was a last minute set-up at 3am Monday morning for the first time I've had to put the generator in 24/7 service. I've got plans for a better solution come hurricane season.
AKA 13-0
I'm going to put propane generators at my main house and one at my ranch after this debacle. I really don't care how much it cost! I've been thinking about it for a while so it's time.
Luckily, I have a whole home, but did get going down the YouTube rabbit hole last night and ran across people basically making a whole home out of a yard storage shed. It requires a few steps I don't have, but the end result is the same.CanyonAg77 said:I think having an enclosure is fine for storage. It needs to be wide open to run.Quote:
I built a small enclosure that is easy to take down and put back up to keep it dry, while allowing it to have plenty of air flow.
ag_pete09 said:
I still don't know enough about all of it, but have seen where you want THD below 5%. Most of those are the inverter generators that are more expensive with lower power.
This one is more slightly more expensive and would require a conversion kit (+~$150), but has good power (lower with NG) and <5% THD.
https://www.costco.com/generac-8%2c500w-running--10%2c000w-peak-efi-generator-with-electric-start.product.100646706.html
Just a heads up, that model generator is EFI, not carbureted. I don't know if the standard Tri fuel conversion kits will work with an EFI setup. I think they are all designed to convert carburetors. I could be wrong, but it's something to look into.
Make sure to consider all your emergency needs. Here is a good essentials kit.
What about these? Has anyone used this for a transfer switch?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLink-30-Amp-Meter-Mounted-Transfer-Switch-MA23-N/301961623
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLink-30-Amp-Meter-Mounted-Transfer-Switch-MA23-N/301961623
That's really cool, but you have to have the power company install the switch. Not sure how much that would cost. Might be cheaper to install the switch at the panel?Texasyankee said:
What about these? Has anyone used this for a transfer switch?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLink-30-Amp-Meter-Mounted-Transfer-Switch-MA23-N/301961623
dsvogel05 said:
I think I would only need a UPS for the TV, cable modem and router. Everything else should be ok.
I have read that THD can fry circuit boards on HVAC systems. Don't know if true or not.
I bought this model last year and had the same issue with the electric start at first. Check the leads to the battery. They have a quick disconnect in the middle of the wire. It ships disconnected, but zip tied to the frame, so it's not obvious.
My situation and experience.
Built new house in 2019. 3,000 SF, All metal construction, foamed, AC/HEAT is 7 mini splits, 42 inch fireplace, 22 foot ceilings in living area, 10 foot in all areas except upstairs (tv room, storage and one big bedroom)
Electrical was designed for a 22kw generac permanent generator. Went way over budget on house so told the rib we would add later at approximately +/- $8,000.
Winter storm about 24 days ago gave us 7 inches of snow. Power out for 2.5 days. Thank God for the fireplace and about 3 chords of red oak firewood. I duck hunt and had been watching the Polar Vortex, which was actually about a month late, hoping it would force some ducks south during the later part of duck season. After the first snowstorm, and before the really bad weather, I purchased an 8000 watt portable Generac ($1,000) and got my electrician to wire a plug into the transfer box.
Lost electricity when the temp was around 0 degrees. It was 9:00 pm and we plugged the Generac in and fired it up, hit the disconnect and transfer switch, power restored. Turned two mini splits off, keep fireplace hot, two TVs, two tankless hot water heaters (propane) and all appliances were fine. Life was good during the outage. Still running at 7:00 am the next morning with a 1/4 tank of fuel remaining. Very pleased.
For me, it changed my opinion about having the permanent generator. I have to many other uses for a potable generator. Besides, I still have a lot of guns that I can spend that other money on.
Just my 2 cents.
Built new house in 2019. 3,000 SF, All metal construction, foamed, AC/HEAT is 7 mini splits, 42 inch fireplace, 22 foot ceilings in living area, 10 foot in all areas except upstairs (tv room, storage and one big bedroom)
Electrical was designed for a 22kw generac permanent generator. Went way over budget on house so told the rib we would add later at approximately +/- $8,000.
Winter storm about 24 days ago gave us 7 inches of snow. Power out for 2.5 days. Thank God for the fireplace and about 3 chords of red oak firewood. I duck hunt and had been watching the Polar Vortex, which was actually about a month late, hoping it would force some ducks south during the later part of duck season. After the first snowstorm, and before the really bad weather, I purchased an 8000 watt portable Generac ($1,000) and got my electrician to wire a plug into the transfer box.
Lost electricity when the temp was around 0 degrees. It was 9:00 pm and we plugged the Generac in and fired it up, hit the disconnect and transfer switch, power restored. Turned two mini splits off, keep fireplace hot, two TVs, two tankless hot water heaters (propane) and all appliances were fine. Life was good during the outage. Still running at 7:00 am the next morning with a 1/4 tank of fuel remaining. Very pleased.
For me, it changed my opinion about having the permanent generator. I have to many other uses for a potable generator. Besides, I still have a lot of guns that I can spend that other money on.
Just my 2 cents.
So did you already have a transfer switch installed? Was it an automatic transfer switch for the originally planned standby?
I'm thinking through a poor man's standby system with a portable generator.
I'm thinking through a poor man's standby system with a portable generator.
An electrician can pull the meter, with the power company's permission.PearlJammin said:That's really cool, but you have to have the power company install the switch. Not sure how much that would cost. Might be cheaper to install the switch at the panel?Texasyankee said:
What about these? Has anyone used this for a transfer switch?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLink-30-Amp-Meter-Mounted-Transfer-Switch-MA23-N/301961623
$650 seems high for a unit that can only handle 30 Amps. That's only 3600 watts (3.6Kw) correct?
Yeah, I saw the amperage rating and several other sources say that it's good for up to 10k generator. Seems like a transfer switch would be a better option.CanyonAg77 said:An electrician can pull the meter, with the power company's permission.PearlJammin said:That's really cool, but you have to have the power company install the switch. Not sure how much that would cost. Might be cheaper to install the switch at the panel?Texasyankee said:
What about these? Has anyone used this for a transfer switch?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLink-30-Amp-Meter-Mounted-Transfer-Switch-MA23-N/301961623
$650 seems high for a unit that can only handle 30 Amps. That's only 3600 watts (3.6Kw) correct?
So now the rabbit hole of looking at generators with a low THD. The DuroMax seems to be a popular choice, but the issue of frying electronics. Even if they slowly brown out, you could be looking at appliances "going bad" months from now for no apparent reason.
A lightening bolt hit near our house a few years back. It immediately fried items in the garage such as the door opener and an older stereo receiver. But within a year a 3yr old 60" samsung stopped working as well as a few other items. I tie all of that back to the lighting strike.
Is it possible to have a jobsite generator, like the DuroMax, and also has a line conditioner that is separate as an 'add on' to clean the frequency up, or is it just better to buy a much more expensive generator with a built in inverter? Goal is to be cheaper than a Generac, but also not so cheap you fry everything else in the house.
A lightening bolt hit near our house a few years back. It immediately fried items in the garage such as the door opener and an older stereo receiver. But within a year a 3yr old 60" samsung stopped working as well as a few other items. I tie all of that back to the lighting strike.
Is it possible to have a jobsite generator, like the DuroMax, and also has a line conditioner that is separate as an 'add on' to clean the frequency up, or is it just better to buy a much more expensive generator with a built in inverter? Goal is to be cheaper than a Generac, but also not so cheap you fry everything else in the house.
aTm '99
It was wired for a permanent generator that was to be wired directly into the transfer switch. My electrician came and wired a plug on the bottom of the transfer box that allowed me to connect my generator.
The transfer switch box was put in when the house was built.
The transfer switch box was put in when the house was built.
Anyone in Houston have an Easy Start on your AC system? Basically it's a big capacitor to get the unit moving without a hard spike in demand, which makes it easier for portable generators to operate.
https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-368-6-ton-soft-start-motor-starter-for-115-and-230v-ac-motors?variant=29181662283
https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-368-6-ton-soft-start-motor-starter-for-115-and-230v-ac-motors?variant=29181662283
aTm '99
To piggyback on this, I am wanting to add a generator connect to my panel. From my understanding, I will need the below. Am I missing anything?
Receptacle:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GLJRR4K/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_300?psc=1&uh_it=d64819390f96c149db720f333d5e52fa_CT&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQkVHWDA5OThVS1FPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg5NTg3M0tLQjNKQzNCRlRHViZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjA0MDkyMVdEUlBKMkkyUEpNViZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNkX29uc2l0ZV9kZXNrdG9wJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
Conduit (any outdoor rated that fits this wire) and wire to breaker:
https://www.amazon.com/SOOW-10-Bulk-Cable-Resistant/dp/B07H9F1KJW/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=30+amp+romex&qid=1614023825&sr=8-9
New breaker:
https://www.amazon.com/Cutler-Hammer-BAB2030-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B00KXJTSQ0/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1HSV5GYKQFHTW&dchild=1&keywords=eaton+2+pole+30+amp+breaker&qid=1614023999&sprefix=eaton+2+pole+%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-4
Interlock:
https://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-HOMCGK2C-Generator/dp/B00CONE4MG/ref=sr_1_10?crid=10P7RBAMMDXHV&dchild=1&keywords=breaker+panel+interlock+kit&qid=1614024062&sprefix=breaker+panel+inter%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-10
Receptacle:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GLJRR4K/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_300?psc=1&uh_it=d64819390f96c149db720f333d5e52fa_CT&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQkVHWDA5OThVS1FPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg5NTg3M0tLQjNKQzNCRlRHViZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjA0MDkyMVdEUlBKMkkyUEpNViZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNkX29uc2l0ZV9kZXNrdG9wJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
Conduit (any outdoor rated that fits this wire) and wire to breaker:
https://www.amazon.com/SOOW-10-Bulk-Cable-Resistant/dp/B07H9F1KJW/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=30+amp+romex&qid=1614023825&sr=8-9
New breaker:
https://www.amazon.com/Cutler-Hammer-BAB2030-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B00KXJTSQ0/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1HSV5GYKQFHTW&dchild=1&keywords=eaton+2+pole+30+amp+breaker&qid=1614023999&sprefix=eaton+2+pole+%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-4
Interlock:
https://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-HOMCGK2C-Generator/dp/B00CONE4MG/ref=sr_1_10?crid=10P7RBAMMDXHV&dchild=1&keywords=breaker+panel+interlock+kit&qid=1614024062&sprefix=breaker+panel+inter%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-10
Alaskan, I have used the following on my AC: https://www.amazon.com/CPS-5-2-1-CSRU1-Compressor-Saver/dp/B003FNMADE/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=hard+start+5-2-1&qid=1614024281&sr=8-2