HI All,

I could use some help picking out a scope / combat optic of some sort for my AR, preferably in the $300-$400 range. This optic would mostly be for self-defense type work with the occasional hog hunt / plinking session. My AR has a fixed A2 site post on the front so I'll need to be able to co-witness.

There seems to be a glut of decent optics on the market at the moment in this price range so I could use some help picking one out. I've looked at several YouTube reviews for the following scopes and cant really tell which one would be better as they all seem to fill the same role adequately enough.

Sig Bravo5
Vortex Spitfire
Primary Arms Prism

The ones above are what I was looking at but am open to other options. Ideally, I'd like some level of magnification as red dots seem limited for use outside of fairly close quarters.

Thanks

I like the Prism scopes due to having an astigmatism.

I have never looked though that Sig but I have been presently surprised by some of their other scopes. One of their reps claimed they brought people over from Leupold to build their optics line.

I am a known Vortex hater but I have no issue with the Spitfire.

Primary Arms is a local favorite and a Texas company. They beat you up on shipping but they are shipping their optics free right now.

Their shipping might be a tad higher than most, but I swear PA ships **** before I order it. Crazy fast usually

CTGilley said:

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I like the Prism scopes due to having an astigmatism.

I have never looked though that Sig but I have been presently surprised by some of their other scopes. One of their reps claimed they brought people over from Leupold to build their optics line.

I am a known Vortex hater but I have no issue with the Spitfire.

Primary Arms is a local favorite and a Texas company. They beat you up on shipping but they are shipping their optics free right now.

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Nice, I wasn't aware Primary Arms was a Texas outfit, that will add some points in their favor. Thanks.

Another option from PA

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1-6x24mm-ffp-illuminated-rifle-scope-with-acss-raptor-556-reticle-black


You won't be able cowitness with anything magnified. In my experience at 3x power your front sight post will be an easily ignored blur and higher than that you won't notice it at all.

Owned not manufactured, for full clarity.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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Owned not manufactured, for full clarity.

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Of Course, I'm sure almost everything is made by the ChiComs these days.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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Another option from PA

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1-6x24mm-ffp-illuminated-rifle-scope-with-acss-raptor-556-reticle-black


You won't be able cowitness with anything magnified. In my experience at 3x power your front sight post will be an easily ignored blur and higher than that you won't notice it at all.

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Perhaps I've got my terminology off with mentioning Co-wittness as I'm pretty much a rookie regarding optics.

At 1X power I expect to see the site post as normal but at 3X it will largely be ignored as you mentioned. If this is the case, I assume at 1X you could still just put the red ring center mass and not have trouble if within 10 to 20 feet and then move up beyond 3X to get a more clear site picture when moving out to 50 yards plus.

Prism scopes like ACOGs or those PA options aren't variable. 3x, 4x, 5x fixed.

I really like the PA prisms.

My link was a 1-6 not a prism

I gotcha, just wasn't sure if he was expecting the prism linked in the OP to have a 1x option.

Since PA is a Texas outfit and they seem to be well regarded around here I'm leaning in that direction. I believe there's a 3x option as well as a 5x. Any reason to get one over the other? I assume a 3x is easier to use at closer ranges.

Pookers said:

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Since PA is a Texas outfit and they seem to be well regarded around here I'm leaning in that direction. I believe there's a 3x option as well as a 5x. Any reason to get one over the other? I assume a 3x is easier to use at closer ranges.

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IMO 5x is a little too much for home defense. 3x is plenty to put a good shot on a hog and with their recital it will also be easy at range. IMO 5x prism is pointless.(I guess you could throw a red dot on top and have the best of both.) At that point get a 1-6. That said I shoot most animals under 200yd on 6x.

You don't need much magnification for your use. 1x red dot will work fine. If you have week eyes (I do) the magnification is nice. I shoot a lot of hogs with a red dot only. If you want to take multiple shots the now power gives you a bigger FOV.

The real move is the 4x prism they discontinued a few years ago

I would rather the (LPVO) low power variable optic than the Fixed. In the simiar price range:

Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 or 1-8- It is on sale with a scope mount.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-strike-eagle-scope-1-6x24-ar-bdc-reticle.html?_iv_code=VX-RS-SE-1624-1-SE-1624-1-KIT1

Primary SLX 1-6 or 1-8
https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1-6x24mm-ffp-illuminated-rifle-scope-with-acss-raptor-556-reticle-black

The A2 sight post shouldn't be a problem.

At 1X they act similar to a red dot for close range. At 6 or 8X you have some good magnification to reach out and touch something far away.

STRIKE EAGLE 40% OFF with scope mount. Cant beat that price. $306 plus TAX.

Avoid the PA and strike turkey. Wait for a vortex pst gen 2 refurbs to get posted on AAoptics for $425.

That's the best low end LPVO.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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Another option from PA

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1-6x24mm-ffp-illuminated-rifle-scope-with-acss-raptor-556-reticle-black


You won't be able cowitness with anything magnified. In my experience at 3x power your front sight post will be an easily ignored blur and higher than that you won't notice it at all.

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Agreed.

OP, I'd definitely take a serious look into low-powered variables (LPVOs) in your price range unless you're set on a fixed prism. 1x will give you your co-witness where you want it (lower 1/3 or absolute), and you can dial up the magnification when you want/need.

Edit: I should have added, you can just do a QD mount if/when you'd ever need to use irons---I forgot what I was recommending.

Nealthedestroyer said:

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Avoid the PA and strike turkey. Wait for a vortex pst gen 2 refurbs to get posted on AAoptics for $425.

That's the best low end LPVO.

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Interesting, any idea what the typical ETA for refurbs getting posted?

Any thoughts of a red dot and a 3x magnifier?

Pick a red dot and you can add on a mount a magnifier and a magnifier mount.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-advanced-micro-dot-with-push-buttons-and-up-to-50k-hour-battery-life-red-dot

Pookers said:

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Nealthedestroyer said:

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Avoid the PA and strike turkey. Wait for a vortex pst gen 2 refurbs to get posted on AAoptics for $425.

That's the best low end LPVO.

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Interesting, any idea what the typical ETA for refurbs getting posted?

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I've seen them posted two or three times since November. You can sign up for email alerts.

KorbinDallas said:

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Any thoughts of a red dot and a 3x magnifier?

Pick a red dot and you can add on a mount a magnifier and a magnifier mount.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-advanced-micro-dot-with-push-buttons-and-up-to-50k-hour-battery-life-red-dot

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A red dot and magnifier is a great "all around" option. If you can't afford Aimpoint or Eotech then I recommend Holosun over PA.

Nealthedestroyer said:

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KorbinDallas said:

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Any thoughts of a red dot and a 3x magnifier?

Pick a red dot and you can add on a mount a magnifier and a magnifier mount.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-advanced-micro-dot-with-push-buttons-and-up-to-50k-hour-battery-life-red-dot

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A red dot and magnifier is a great "all around" option. If you can't afford Aimpoint or Eotech then I recommend Holosun over PA.

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I like using the a magnifier and I would have them on more guns if it was not for this damn astigmatism.

For Holosun, I would go with the Sig. Same optic but the shake awake has a shorter timer resulting in longer battery life. I have tried my damnedest tr try and pick up the gun without the optic waking up and I have not been successful.

I have an Aimpomt T2, Eotech 518 and VortexUH1. While the Aimpoint and Eotech are great, at nearly half the price the Vortex UH1 is great for the money. I bought the Vortex on sale just to try it out and have been very satisfied.

I use a Vortex Magnifier with all 3. It obviously doesn't compare to Nightforce or Razor HD glass, but still great.

I personally like the red dot with a magnifier option. On my AR I have an Aimpoint t2 or h2 I forget which one that I got for a great deal from a Texagger. I have a PA microdot on my 10/22. I don't have a magnifier on either setup but I have considered it for the AR and probably need to look at it more.

Seems like you could get a magnifier that you could flip on or off. Probably leave it flipped off normally so it's set for home defense, and just flip it when you are going hunting.

I agree with Neal the red dot/magnifier would be a pretty good "all around" setup.

I have the spitfire 3x. It's nice for hogs up close in the brush, but it was a pain in the ace to sight in at 100yds. The 3x was not enough for me to see shot groups on paper at 100 w/o using the range's spotting scope. No fault of vortex, just that 3x aint enough for my tired eyes at 100 yd. It is absolutley minute-of-hog at 100yds, easily.

Nealthedestroyer said:

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Pookers said:

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Nealthedestroyer said:

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Avoid the PA and strike turkey. Wait for a vortex pst gen 2 refurbs to get posted on AAoptics for $425.

That's the best low end LPVO.

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Interesting, any idea what the typical ETA for refurbs getting posted?

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I've seen them posted two or three times since November. You can sign up for email alerts.

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Thanks everybody for the info. I'm leaning towards a LPVO at the moment as they seam to give me the red dot functionality when up close but also allow me to go out further should the need arise.

Is the Vortex Gen 2 PST considerably better than the PA Raptor or Strike Eagle? If it is, I don't mind waiting for a refurb to pop up; otherwise I might just snipe that scope / mount deal that's on opticsplanet and call it a day.

Pookers said:

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Nealthedestroyer said:

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Pookers said:

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Nealthedestroyer said:

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Avoid the PA and strike turkey. Wait for a vortex pst gen 2 refurbs to get posted on AAoptics for $425.

That's the best low end LPVO.

---

Interesting, any idea what the typical ETA for refurbs getting posted?

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I've seen them posted two or three times since November. You can sign up for email alerts.

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Thanks everybody for the info. I'm leaning towards a LPVO at the moment as they seam to give me the red dot functionality when up close but also allow me to go out further should the need arise.

Is the Vortex Gen 2 PST considerably better than the PA Raptor or Strike Eagle? If it is, I don't mind waiting for a refurb to pop up; otherwise I might just snipe that scope / mount deal that's on opticsplanet and call it a day.

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Yes the glass is vastly better than the cheaper options.

JSKolache said:

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I have the spitfire 3x. It's nice for hogs up close in the brush, but it was a pain in the ace to sight in at 100yds. The 3x was not enough for me to see shot groups on paper at 100 w/o using the range's spotting scope. No fault of vortex, just that 3x aint enough for my tired eyes at 100 yd. It is absolutley minute-of-hog at 100yds, easily.

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Why would you want to see groups on paper through your optic? Walk down there or move the target back. That would be pretty difficult with anything under 8x. Bring your binos.

A lot of people did not learn to shoot with open sight and it shows.

(Sorry if I am miss understanding. I read your post a couple times and it came across very strange to me. I read it as the 3x optic does exactly what it is meant to do but it is not a 3-15x50.)

Viper is definitely better. There is no denying that. I don't think you will see the price getting low enough to be in your budget. I bought the Strike Eagle for my dads budget build and it was great for the money.

If you can find the Viper PST in your price range than that's an obvious decision. It has better eye relief and glass.

The link I posted above for the strike eagle and scope mount for $305 is insane. You could probably buy it used and sell it for that same price down the road.

The real improvement comes to the 1-6 Razor HD Glass. It is amazing, but obviously way more expensive.

I have the Spitfire. Fairly new. At 3x the front sight is too much for me. I removed it and had to take out the spacer as I ran out of elevation adjustment when sighting in. I actually like the lower mounting height. I'm zero'd at 50 yards. Was fairly easy at that distance and once I lowered the height of the optic. Not difficult to kill at 100 yards with it.

aggie1819 said:

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Viper is definitely better. There is no denying that. I don't think you will see the price getting low enough to be in your budget. I bought the Strike Eagle for my dads budget build and it was great for the money.

If you can find the Viper PST in your price range than that's an obvious decision. It has better eye relief and glass.

The link I posted above for the strike eagle and scope mount for $305 is insane. You could probably buy it used and sell it for that same price down the road.

The real improvement comes to the 1-6 Razor HD Glass. It is amazing, but obviously way more expensive.

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AAoptics.com regularly has "refurbed" PST 2 1-6s for $425.

That's cheaper than buying used. Crazy

Don't buy Chinese buy American!

https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-vx-r-patrol-illuminated-riflescope-1-25-4x20mm.html

If only Leupold invested more money in their LPVOs and tactical style optics early on. The MK8 is awesome, but $2500+.

I grew up with Leupold, but they were late to the game.

They are assembled in the USA, but some parts still come from over seas just like the other brands.
From Leupold sites
[ol]

Where does Leupold get its glass?

At this time, there are no American manufacturers that can supply enough high quality lenses to support our Golden Ring Optics production. Our lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in our state-of -the-art optics labs. The glass is then procured from vendors who must meet stringent quality standards. Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the build process.All major optics producers acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. The source of the base material is not nearly as important as the optical design. Our glass is so much clearer due to our proprietary lens coatings, how we engineer the prescription of the lenses, and the construction of the optic itself.[/ol]

nm