Hey guys, i haven't been keeping up with thermal technology.. Are we to the point where you can get a good scope for 2-3K ?????

You can get a monocular for scouting but I doubt a weapon sight at that price. You might be able to get a pulsar there.....

havent had time to put together my write-up yet, but see the following models that are in that range:

pulsar core series - these are also clip ons. if you can come up a few pesos, that'll get you into the xq38 line.

pulsar - you can also get an entry level thermion for around 3000 if you look around. this is their new product that was introduced this year. hell of a scope

atn has several models in that range. ATN is a dumpster fire of an organization - buyer beware.



its hard to beat pulsar in the middle market range right now. they are not quite as good as the REAP-IR or the HALO, but theyre great optics for what you get in that price range.

The Thermion XM38 looks pretty sweet for around 3K!

My FLIR PTS-233 thermal scope was just under $2k delivered, and what you get is, as usual, how much you want to spend. It delivers good detection out to 350-400 yds, type of animal detection (example, deer versus pig) out to 150-ish yards, and great resolution at around 100 yds.

Built-in still pics and video, no audio.

My son's Pulsar Trail XP50 is much clearer, great resolution...and about $1500 pricier

I have an Pulsar XQ38 and I really like this unit, but I have discovered one issue with it. I have to sight this gun in about ever month or so. I do not feel confident just taking it out of the gun case, and going hunting with it. For some reason over time the scope hits higher and higher the longer I go between re-sighting it in. Just food for thought. I really like it other than this issue.

Which model? Apex, Trail?

What mount are you running on it?

weird, i've never had an issue with my xp50. i take have multiple rifles saved on it. switch the optic between the rifles and everything is zeroed just fine.

Apex. It is a quick release that I think I bought extra but was going to start coming standard shortly after with the Pulsar scopes. I found this youtube video, this is the mount that I'm using. I have re-tightened everything several times so that's not the issue.



Shot at some pigs last night and shot about 5 feet over their backs at 100 yards.

That is the current Pulsar QD mount, which is good because the original QD (2 levers) had horrible repeatability issues.

The Apex is not known for POI shift like some early firmware trails were experiencing. Doesn't mean it cant happen but it would be a rare case.

Almost every Apex I had consistency issues with came down to how it was mounted. I know you said you have re-tightened everything but please walk through this with me and we'll get it corrected. I hate to think someone spent that coin and is having issues, whether they bought from me or not...

First thing I need to know is are we talking repeatability after scope is removed and reinstalled on same host? After being swapped between hosts? Or between shooting sessions with the scope staying mounted on the same host the entire time?

Assuming the last option based on your previous post:

The issue w/ mounts, or any kind, is usually not "are they tight enough" but rather "is the pressure evenly distributed".

1) remove the screws holding the base on the scope
2) examine scope body for damage (cracks, deformity from mount, etc)
3) re-install the mount by snuggling each screw finger tight, then torquing to the same spec. This is best done with a torque wrench that reads in-lb like a fat wrench but can be done by feel if you have no other option.
4) install the scope onto the host paying attention to the pressure on the lever. You want to have to exert enough pressure you get an solid mate into place but not so much you break the lever trying to close it fully. Adjust the lever tension as needed. I generally shoot for about 75% closed before I have to put real pressure on the lever.
5) sight in, let sit and shoot again to see if it solves your issue.

If you are removing and reinstalling the scope:

1) make sure you install in exactly the same T slots every time. Forward / rearward movements will affect elevation of POI.

2) make sure the tension on the lever is exactly the same everytime. Pic rails have a +/- spec like most things. What fits tight on one rail may be loose on another, etc. If you have to adjust tension between hosts, make sure you adjust back to exactly the same spot when you return to the original host. (I mark the adjustment notches w/ nail polish).

If none of this helps, call Sellmark and open a repair ticket. If they can't get it resolved, email me (shawn@kelsoarms.com) and I'll work some back channels to help.

Now that we have addressed the possible issues w/ the scope, are you certain it's the scope and not the host?

I ask because I had one I chased issues on for a month. Got pissed and mounted glass optic. Had same issue and realized it was host related. Shot with and without suppressor and learned issue only presented with suppressor. Sent suppressor back to AAC and found out it had a nic in one of the baffles from the machining process. They put a new core in it and issue was resolved. I still own the setup today and use it regularly. Always dead on. Apex XQ50 on an AR I built, with AAC 300TM suppressor.

Shawn,

Thank you for all the information.
I am not swapping the unit from gun to gun, but it is moving between uses. I have not thought about it being the gun itself, and I will need to try that out. I do have the thermal sighted in on a .17 so I will swap guns for awhile and see if it narrows down what could be happening. I have not been shooting suppressed for the past month or so due to issues with my ejection on my AR (need to adjust the gas back pressure), so it's not that.

I talked to Pulsar yesterday and they said to send it into them on a warantee, since it's only about a year and a half old. They think there could be something lose inside the unit causing it to come off zero during the recoil. Any thoughts on that option?

I knew they would take care of you.

Send it in. If they can fix it, they will. Otherwise they will offer you an upgrade for a fee. They are generally pretty honest w/ their upgrade fees.

I don't know much about thermals but my brother has the Pulsar Core RXQ30 for $1800. He loves it and has killed a pile of pigs with it. Ive only used it once and you could distinguish deer from pigs at about 150-200 yards, FWIW.

1. Listen to skelso he knows his stuff and won't steer you wrong

2. I own 50mm Pulsar Apex and Trail and 35mm REAP IR

3. Apex is by far the best value, near to Trail image and way simpler to use

4. If budget was not an issue, REAP IR all day long - love the small package and image is beyond imagination

5. Don't sacrifice simplicity/ease of use and weight for greater objective or bells and whistles - especially for hunting pigs all night. (I've got buddies who jack around way too much with tripods, "connectivity", recording, etc in the field)

6. For your budget, Apex is a great fit but I'd take skelso's advice

Problem for the OP is the Apex was discontinued so he would have to go used market for an Apex. Which isn't a terrible idea, just have to know what to look for to make sure the previous owner didnt abuse, etc...

The standard Trail line is going away as well. They are still filling old dealer orders but I cant place any new orders for a standard Trail.

That leaves you with the Thermion or Trail LRF if you go with Pulsar (and I would on a budget). I prefer the LRF over the Thermion in most cases because of recording (I use it to find animals after the shooting stops more than anything else) and range finder. Rumor has it they are working on a rangefinder for the Thermion. I expect they will get it figured out, but I dont look for it anytime soon.

Good to know - missed that Apex is discontinued!

I thought I saw them on Optics Planet the other day but I guess they're closing them out....

I've seen a few returns flow through but no new ones from Pulsar for a while now.

Optics planet is notorious for selling stuff they dont have / cant deliver on..